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ME
So far 37, I don't know much about the pitchers and putting them on, and I don't know as much about old pitchers in general as old hitters.
Players better?:
1 Ruth
2 Ted Williams
3 Walter Johnson
4 Honus Wagner
5 Stan Musial
6 Alex Rodriguez
7 Rogers Hornsby
8 Lou Gehrig
9 Barry Bonds
10 Christy Matthewson
11 Hank Aaron
12 Eddie Mathews
13 Mike Schmidt
14 Jimmy Foxx
15 Frank Robinson
16 Cal Ripken JR (?)
17 Mel Ott
18 Sandy Koufax (?)
19 Juan Marichal (?)
20 Roger Clemens (?)
21 Greg Maddux (?)
22 Johnny Bench
23 Roy Campanella (?)
24 Ty Cobb
25 Warren Spahn (?)
26 Harmon Killebrew
27 Willie Mays
28 Wade Boggs
29 Tony Gwynn
30 Sammy Sosa (???)
31 Joe Dimaggio (?)
32 Mickey Mantle
33 Reggie Jackson (???)
34 Tom Seaver
35 Nolan Ryan (?)
36 Carl Yastrzemski
37 Lefty Grove
38 Don Drysdale (?)
39 Joe Morgan (?)
40 Jackie Robinson (?)
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
Rickey Henderson top 50 ever?
February 12, 2004 at 02:37AM View BBCode
I thought this had to be, but happy's dad says that no way is Rickey Henderson one the top 50 players (pitchers and hitters) of all time. He says he wasn't a great hitter or defender (even at corner outfield), that leadoff men are overrated (and Cobb would be a better leadoff man anyways). So I decided to see if I could think of 50 players who are better (everything considered, including position scarsity) than Rickey Henderson.So far 37, I don't know much about the pitchers and putting them on, and I don't know as much about old pitchers in general as old hitters.
Players better?:
1 Ruth
2 Ted Williams
3 Walter Johnson
4 Honus Wagner
5 Stan Musial
6 Alex Rodriguez
7 Rogers Hornsby
8 Lou Gehrig
9 Barry Bonds
10 Christy Matthewson
11 Hank Aaron
12 Eddie Mathews
13 Mike Schmidt
14 Jimmy Foxx
15 Frank Robinson
16 Cal Ripken JR (?)
17 Mel Ott
18 Sandy Koufax (?)
19 Juan Marichal (?)
20 Roger Clemens (?)
21 Greg Maddux (?)
22 Johnny Bench
23 Roy Campanella (?)
24 Ty Cobb
25 Warren Spahn (?)
26 Harmon Killebrew
27 Willie Mays
28 Wade Boggs
29 Tony Gwynn
30 Sammy Sosa (???)
31 Joe Dimaggio (?)
32 Mickey Mantle
33 Reggie Jackson (???)
34 Tom Seaver
35 Nolan Ryan (?)
36 Carl Yastrzemski
37 Lefty Grove
38 Don Drysdale (?)
39 Joe Morgan (?)
40 Jackie Robinson (?)
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by ME]
ME
February 12, 2004 at 02:37AM View BBCode
that is no particular order of players listed compared to each other, just a counter
Cubsfan13
February 12, 2004 at 02:40AM View BBCode
He is much better than Reggie Jackson and slightly better than Sosa. He has to be top 30 all time. Him and Kilebrew are about equal.
skierdude44
February 12, 2004 at 02:41AM View BBCode
i was gonna say there is no way u could put arod 6th. i think that henderson could sneak into the top 50 but i may be overlooking some guys.
ME
i guess my last post wasn't clear.
the umbers next to the players' names have nothing to do with how good they are, just the order in which i thought of them. i put in the numbers so i could see how many players i had.
February 12, 2004 at 02:43AM View BBCode
Originally posted by skierdude44
i was gonna say there is no way u could put arod 6th. i think that henderson could sneak into the top 50 but i may be overlooking some guys.
i guess my last post wasn't clear.
the umbers next to the players' names have nothing to do with how good they are, just the order in which i thought of them. i put in the numbers so i could see how many players i had.
hobos
February 12, 2004 at 02:44AM View formatted
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Henderson is better than Sammy Sosa as far as I am concerned. Whenever Ive seen Sosa play, he does nothing but hit the ball as hard as he can(not to mention the corked bat...). I think Henderson belongs on the list, but what do I know
ME
February 12, 2004 at 02:50AM View BBCode
ok, i put triple ??? next to the players who have been challenged as not being as good as him, but that still puts 30+ players ahead.
hobos
February 12, 2004 at 02:55AM View BBCode
just to throw some more pitcher in, i say Drysdale, Hersheiser, and Valenzuela (I probably spelled all those wrong) MIGHT be considered better. there's a bit of a recurring theme in the 3 of them...
arodtoo
sosa isn't top 50 overall, look at whgat he has done, it isn't as amazing as some of the guys of past and present. He barely makes it into a combined list of top 100 hitter/pitchers, there are many more old time hitters who are far better than sosa
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by arodtoo]
February 12, 2004 at 02:56AM View BBCode
only an idiot would say henderson is not one of the top 50 hitters of all time, if you cinlude pitchers i think he still makes it, but barely. Without hitters he easily makes it, amazing speed, massive hit totals, and some pop, and most walks ever, and runs(i think)sosa isn't top 50 overall, look at whgat he has done, it isn't as amazing as some of the guys of past and present. He barely makes it into a combined list of top 100 hitter/pitchers, there are many more old time hitters who are far better than sosa
[Edited on 2-12-2004 by arodtoo]
FuriousGiorge
Don Drysdale is one of the most overrated pitchers of all time. And as far as leadoff hitters being overrated, I think that they are clearly underrated. How long did Billy Hamilton take before getting into the Hall? How about Richie Ashburn? Most people think Tim Raines doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, even though he was quite possibly the second best leadoff man ever. Rickey Henderson owns a ridiculous number of IMPORTANT records. He is easily one of the top 50 players, top 30 in fact. He is, in my opinion, the number 4 left fielder of all time, after Williams, Bonds and Musial. I like the fact that we have the list to work with, but a lot of those guys don't really belong. Marichal? Drysdale? Ryan? Killebrew? No way are any of these guys better than Rickey, and that's just the few I picked out.
February 12, 2004 at 04:45AM View BBCode
If Don Drysdale is better than Rickey Henderson then I'm a flying sperm whale.Don Drysdale is one of the most overrated pitchers of all time. And as far as leadoff hitters being overrated, I think that they are clearly underrated. How long did Billy Hamilton take before getting into the Hall? How about Richie Ashburn? Most people think Tim Raines doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, even though he was quite possibly the second best leadoff man ever. Rickey Henderson owns a ridiculous number of IMPORTANT records. He is easily one of the top 50 players, top 30 in fact. He is, in my opinion, the number 4 left fielder of all time, after Williams, Bonds and Musial. I like the fact that we have the list to work with, but a lot of those guys don't really belong. Marichal? Drysdale? Ryan? Killebrew? No way are any of these guys better than Rickey, and that's just the few I picked out.
jojo888
February 12, 2004 at 05:18AM View BBCode
maybe i missed it but i dont see cy young on the list.
nextyearcubs
Lou Brock
Ernie Banks
Nap Lajoie
Tris Speaker
Joe Jackson
George Sisler
Billy Williams
George Brett
Don Mattingly
Paul Waner
Paul Molitor
Eddie Collins
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Bob Feller
Bob Gibson
Pie Traynor
I guess my point is that its pretty much a moot point to try to rank the best players.
You could make a case that at least a half of the guys I listed are better than so and so, and my half will be different than yours. If Tim Raines ever goes to the hall, it will be at Andre Dawson's inaugural. Raines' last great season was '87, after that his career was mostly indistinguished, serviceable, but not hall material. Living in Chicago, I saw him in his early thirties. He was good, but no HOFer.
I would imagine Henderson on the lower side of 50 hitters, if he makes the top 50 with pitchers I'd be surprised but probably not argue with it. He's kind of tarnished his career because he seems to be sticking around to just break records, while that's great and all, you can bet those who set the records he broke didn't hang on in similar matter. As a leadoff hitter, he might be the best ever, he could take a walk and steal like no other, but his BA is pretty low, so many hitters still have managed to hit over .300 for career which hurts him. He's like a Tony Phillips with speed and a longer career.
Can't believe you'd put a question by DiMaggio, he's got to be one of the 10 best. His career totals aren't high, but he also spent 3 seasons defending our country... not to mention he was banging Marilyn Monroe.
Why all the Sosa hate? He's easily top 50 whether you like him or not. If you want to accuse him of whatever you feel he's done, for whatever reason fine. Until its proven that he's juiced all these years, and he used a corked bat all those times (Damn the Xrays, its all BS, right?) his accomplishments on the field stand, no matter our suspicions or prejudices. As for me, I'll take his 9 straight 100 RBI seasons and 61HR average over 4 seasons anytime over Henderson's best.
February 12, 2004 at 09:18AM View BBCode
Fergie JenkinsLou Brock
Ernie Banks
Nap Lajoie
Tris Speaker
Joe Jackson
George Sisler
Billy Williams
George Brett
Don Mattingly
Paul Waner
Paul Molitor
Eddie Collins
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Bob Feller
Bob Gibson
Pie Traynor
I guess my point is that its pretty much a moot point to try to rank the best players.
You could make a case that at least a half of the guys I listed are better than so and so, and my half will be different than yours. If Tim Raines ever goes to the hall, it will be at Andre Dawson's inaugural. Raines' last great season was '87, after that his career was mostly indistinguished, serviceable, but not hall material. Living in Chicago, I saw him in his early thirties. He was good, but no HOFer.
I would imagine Henderson on the lower side of 50 hitters, if he makes the top 50 with pitchers I'd be surprised but probably not argue with it. He's kind of tarnished his career because he seems to be sticking around to just break records, while that's great and all, you can bet those who set the records he broke didn't hang on in similar matter. As a leadoff hitter, he might be the best ever, he could take a walk and steal like no other, but his BA is pretty low, so many hitters still have managed to hit over .300 for career which hurts him. He's like a Tony Phillips with speed and a longer career.
Can't believe you'd put a question by DiMaggio, he's got to be one of the 10 best. His career totals aren't high, but he also spent 3 seasons defending our country... not to mention he was banging Marilyn Monroe.
Why all the Sosa hate? He's easily top 50 whether you like him or not. If you want to accuse him of whatever you feel he's done, for whatever reason fine. Until its proven that he's juiced all these years, and he used a corked bat all those times (Damn the Xrays, its all BS, right?) his accomplishments on the field stand, no matter our suspicions or prejudices. As for me, I'll take his 9 straight 100 RBI seasons and 61HR average over 4 seasons anytime over Henderson's best.
Bob
Now, if you add in pitchers it's possible he doesn't make the top 50, but I'd still be surprised if he didn't. When I get home I want to look up where Bill James has him rated. I'll try to remember to post it here.
February 12, 2004 at 01:32PM View BBCode
Henderson is definitely one of the top 50 hitters in the history of the game. He is FAR AND AWAY the best leadoff hitter in the game -- ever. Well, maybe not if you count Cobb as a leadoff guy, but he really wasn't. Henderson's on-base totals are great, and when you combine that with his speed he is simply a great player.Now, if you add in pitchers it's possible he doesn't make the top 50, but I'd still be surprised if he didn't. When I get home I want to look up where Bill James has him rated. I'll try to remember to post it here.
FuriousGiorge
Let's talk about Sammy Sosa for a minute. From 1990 up to the present day, Sammy Sosa has been a regular for a major league team. From 1990 until 1997 Sammy Sosa was a rather mediocre slugger who could hit a decent number of home runs but was an out machine because he never took a walk and never got on base. From 1998 to 2002 Sammy was a great player, one of the best 5 year stretches ever, right up there with Hack Wilson and others like him. Last year Sammy was good but not great. So if you want to talk about someone only having part of their career as "great" then Sammy is a guy you can throw in there. 8 straight years of mediocrity, a brilliant 5 year stretch, and then one good year. We'll see where Sammy goes in the future, and maybe he'll bounce back, but as of right now Sammy has a lot of mediocrity to overcome before he's considered one of the best ever.
Tim Raines, on the other hand, was an everyday player from 1982 to 1995. In not a single one of those seasons did his OBP dip below .350, and his career OBP is .385, spectacular in any era, and especially great since Raines spent most of his career before the offensive explosion of the mid-90's. He's the 5th all-time leading base stealer, and easily one of the 5 best leadoff men ever. Being a leadoff man takes a certain skill set, and I don't think anyone here would say that a leadoff man isn't important. They are. Tim Raines didn't hit as many homers as Rickey, but he still managed to hit 170 in his career, so you can't say he didn't have any power. Looking at your list, Raines is clearly better than Brock, Sisler, Mattingly and Traynor, and you can make an argument that he was better than Banks (blasphemy! but true), Jackson, Williams and Molitor
February 12, 2004 at 04:18PM View BBCode
Lots of people make a comment along the lines: "You can't compare players across time." Well, you can. You can compare their numbers to league norms, you can look at how well-respected they were in the field, on the bases, you can look at how many MVP's they won, how many top 10 finishes they got, etc. Maybe people aren't satisfied with this sort of comparison, but if you just want to say "You can't compare players" and leave it at that then we should probably shut down a lot of the topics on this board, and then when we go to a bar we can argue about who the best Prime Minister in England's history was (Pitt the Elder or Lord Palmerston are your choices according to Barney and Wade Boggs) instead of whether Barry Bonds or Babe Ruth is better. For me, I won't make comments like that, because most of the fun of baseball is arguing who's better.Let's talk about Sammy Sosa for a minute. From 1990 up to the present day, Sammy Sosa has been a regular for a major league team. From 1990 until 1997 Sammy Sosa was a rather mediocre slugger who could hit a decent number of home runs but was an out machine because he never took a walk and never got on base. From 1998 to 2002 Sammy was a great player, one of the best 5 year stretches ever, right up there with Hack Wilson and others like him. Last year Sammy was good but not great. So if you want to talk about someone only having part of their career as "great" then Sammy is a guy you can throw in there. 8 straight years of mediocrity, a brilliant 5 year stretch, and then one good year. We'll see where Sammy goes in the future, and maybe he'll bounce back, but as of right now Sammy has a lot of mediocrity to overcome before he's considered one of the best ever.
Tim Raines, on the other hand, was an everyday player from 1982 to 1995. In not a single one of those seasons did his OBP dip below .350, and his career OBP is .385, spectacular in any era, and especially great since Raines spent most of his career before the offensive explosion of the mid-90's. He's the 5th all-time leading base stealer, and easily one of the 5 best leadoff men ever. Being a leadoff man takes a certain skill set, and I don't think anyone here would say that a leadoff man isn't important. They are. Tim Raines didn't hit as many homers as Rickey, but he still managed to hit 170 in his career, so you can't say he didn't have any power. Looking at your list, Raines is clearly better than Brock, Sisler, Mattingly and Traynor, and you can make an argument that he was better than Banks (blasphemy! but true), Jackson, Williams and Molitor
Muzzie
Ernie Banks
Ted Williams
Paul Molitor
Molitor is the only one that comes remotely close. And I may be a hometown boy, but what about Yount? I'd take Rockin' Robin over Rickey anyday, OF or the young SS.
February 12, 2004 at 05:11PM View BBCode
Not to start a war here, but there is no way in....well hell that Rickey is better thanErnie Banks
Ted Williams
Paul Molitor
Molitor is the only one that comes remotely close. And I may be a hometown boy, but what about Yount? I'd take Rockin' Robin over Rickey anyday, OF or the young SS.
nextyearcubs
Traynor, one of the best forgotten players ever. One season, he hit .356, 4HR and 108 RBI... and only K'd 7 times. The guy could flat out hit, he had no power but still managed to knock in over 100 runs 7 times. One of the best 3B ever, but kinda forgotten. The only time he K'd more than walked, he had 28 K's (career high) and 27 BB's
Sisler only hit .400 twice, he never K'd more than BB'd, career high K's 37. Career average .340. He also holds the single season hit record, 257.
And you would seriously pick Raines over those two? Raines had a modest five year run, but he sputtered after that. He was never as good after '87 as he was before, not even close. That great OBP isn't even in the top 100 all time.
I wouldn't call Sosa's career mediocre before 98... You could call him an average slugger, sure, but not mediocre. Coming into 98 he had 3 100 RBI years in a row and hit over 30HR 4 times, and had 2 30/30 years. Not hall material, and only a 1 time All Star at that point, but not mediocre, not at 29 years old.
Raines was good, but to me a textbook example of a guy who stuck around long enough to amass some decent career numbers... He had a good career, but not nearly an alltime great.
But hey, that's one guy's opinion. If you want Rock, you can have him.
February 12, 2004 at 07:18PM View BBCode
Furious, I figured you out.... You are Tim Raines, because no way in hell is he better than any of those guys you mentioned.Traynor, one of the best forgotten players ever. One season, he hit .356, 4HR and 108 RBI... and only K'd 7 times. The guy could flat out hit, he had no power but still managed to knock in over 100 runs 7 times. One of the best 3B ever, but kinda forgotten. The only time he K'd more than walked, he had 28 K's (career high) and 27 BB's
Sisler only hit .400 twice, he never K'd more than BB'd, career high K's 37. Career average .340. He also holds the single season hit record, 257.
And you would seriously pick Raines over those two? Raines had a modest five year run, but he sputtered after that. He was never as good after '87 as he was before, not even close. That great OBP isn't even in the top 100 all time.
I wouldn't call Sosa's career mediocre before 98... You could call him an average slugger, sure, but not mediocre. Coming into 98 he had 3 100 RBI years in a row and hit over 30HR 4 times, and had 2 30/30 years. Not hall material, and only a 1 time All Star at that point, but not mediocre, not at 29 years old.
Raines was good, but to me a textbook example of a guy who stuck around long enough to amass some decent career numbers... He had a good career, but not nearly an alltime great.
But hey, that's one guy's opinion. If you want Rock, you can have him.
FuriousGiorge
I've given Raines' accomplishments, so I won't rehash that except to point out that his .385 OBP isn't the best all time, but it is better than all the other guys I mentioned except for Joe Jackson, and the knock on Jackson is that his career was short (leaving aside the elephant in the corner when we talk about Jackson.)
I figure people will have a lot of trouble with Raines being better than Banks. Ernie Banks, from 1955 through 1961, was a spectacular player, a slugging shortstop who could do a little bit of everything. What a lot of people don't realize about Banks is that in 1962, when he was 31 years old, he switched to 1st base full time, and actually played more games the than at shortstop. By the standards of 1st basemen, even in the late 60's, his bat was lousy, and by all accounts he was a mediocre fielder at 1st. He tacked on a lot of counting stats post-62, but he wasn't really helping his team that much, at least by Hall of Fame standards. Banks was a great player, and I'm not saying he WASN'T better than Raines, I'm just saying you can make the argument and not be a total moron. No matter what you think of me.
Traynor....he's developed this reputation that doesn't fit with the facts. People say he was the best 3B before Eddie Matthews, and that's BS as far as I'm concerned because Frank Baker was clearly better. Look, Traynor has some nice batting averages, but in the 1920's and 30's anyone with two arms could hit .300. He had no power in an era when everyone and their mother could hit the ball out of the park, and he never took a walk. His career OPS+ is 107; Raines' is 123. Raines was obviously a better base stealer than Traynor. Traynor played 3rd, and you could almost consider them close based on that, but Raines was clearly the better hitter.
George Sisler...the most overrated player ever. First, he played in the Babe Ruth era. He hit .400+ in 1920 and 1922 when league batting averages were around .285. .420 is still impressive, and 1922 was a great season, but put them in proper perspective and it loses a little of its luster. In 1921, George Sisler hit .371 and finished 4th in the batting race. More important, though, is the fact that Sisler's batting average represented pretty much his entire value at the plate. He had little power and didn't take a walk. Sisler was a fine player, and a Hall of Famer, but he wasn't better than Raines. (his OBP, even with his inflated era and his .340 batting average, is still lower than Raines').
Sosa....well, I don't want to dump on the guy. I admire him as a ballplayer, because few players are able to recognize their flaw and put in the time and effort needed to correct that. Sosa did, and his transformation has been remarkable. Maybe saying he was mediocre before 1998 is a little unfair, but he wasn't good. He made tons and tons of outs and every once in a while would hit the ball out. Basically, he was the exact same player that he was traded for, George Bell. When it comes time to put Sammy in the Hall, and Sammy will be in the Hall, his pre 1998 career can only hurt.
February 12, 2004 at 08:24PM View BBCode
Just to clarify, I meant Billy Williams, not Ted. I don't necessarily think Raines is better than Williams, Molitor, Jackson or Banks, I just think you can make the case. I do, however, believe Raines is better than Traynor, Sisler, Brock and Mattingly, and I stand by that.I've given Raines' accomplishments, so I won't rehash that except to point out that his .385 OBP isn't the best all time, but it is better than all the other guys I mentioned except for Joe Jackson, and the knock on Jackson is that his career was short (leaving aside the elephant in the corner when we talk about Jackson.)
I figure people will have a lot of trouble with Raines being better than Banks. Ernie Banks, from 1955 through 1961, was a spectacular player, a slugging shortstop who could do a little bit of everything. What a lot of people don't realize about Banks is that in 1962, when he was 31 years old, he switched to 1st base full time, and actually played more games the than at shortstop. By the standards of 1st basemen, even in the late 60's, his bat was lousy, and by all accounts he was a mediocre fielder at 1st. He tacked on a lot of counting stats post-62, but he wasn't really helping his team that much, at least by Hall of Fame standards. Banks was a great player, and I'm not saying he WASN'T better than Raines, I'm just saying you can make the argument and not be a total moron. No matter what you think of me.
Traynor....he's developed this reputation that doesn't fit with the facts. People say he was the best 3B before Eddie Matthews, and that's BS as far as I'm concerned because Frank Baker was clearly better. Look, Traynor has some nice batting averages, but in the 1920's and 30's anyone with two arms could hit .300. He had no power in an era when everyone and their mother could hit the ball out of the park, and he never took a walk. His career OPS+ is 107; Raines' is 123. Raines was obviously a better base stealer than Traynor. Traynor played 3rd, and you could almost consider them close based on that, but Raines was clearly the better hitter.
George Sisler...the most overrated player ever. First, he played in the Babe Ruth era. He hit .400+ in 1920 and 1922 when league batting averages were around .285. .420 is still impressive, and 1922 was a great season, but put them in proper perspective and it loses a little of its luster. In 1921, George Sisler hit .371 and finished 4th in the batting race. More important, though, is the fact that Sisler's batting average represented pretty much his entire value at the plate. He had little power and didn't take a walk. Sisler was a fine player, and a Hall of Famer, but he wasn't better than Raines. (his OBP, even with his inflated era and his .340 batting average, is still lower than Raines').
Sosa....well, I don't want to dump on the guy. I admire him as a ballplayer, because few players are able to recognize their flaw and put in the time and effort needed to correct that. Sosa did, and his transformation has been remarkable. Maybe saying he was mediocre before 1998 is a little unfair, but he wasn't good. He made tons and tons of outs and every once in a while would hit the ball out. Basically, he was the exact same player that he was traded for, George Bell. When it comes time to put Sammy in the Hall, and Sammy will be in the Hall, his pre 1998 career can only hurt.
Bob
February 13, 2004 at 12:27PM View BBCode
For the record, in his recent Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James rates Henderson as the 4th best LF of all time and the 29th best player (including pitchers) of all time. I'll try to post more info on James' ranking over the weekend.
Nymr
February 13, 2004 at 10:06PM View BBCode
There is ZERO doubt that the all-time leader in WALKS and RUNS is in the top 50 of all time, stolen bases arent as important as some people make them out to be, but he does lead that too and by a wide margin
ME
February 13, 2004 at 10:39PM View BBCode
Pete Rose is the all time leader in hits but he isn't a top 50 ever player. He got it by playing forever, that's how Rickey Henderson got the walks and runs scored records.
Bob
1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Willie Mays
4. Oscar Charleston
5. Ty Cobb
6. Mickey Mantle
7. Ted Williams
8. Walter Johnson
9. Josh Gibson
10. Stan Musial
11. Tris Speaker
12. Henry Aaron
13. Joe DiMaggio
14. Lou Gehrig
15. Joe Morgan
16. Barry Bonds
17. Satchel Paige
18. Eddie Collins
19. Lefty Grove
20. Pete Alexander
21. Mike Schmidt
22. Rogers Hornsby
23. Cy Young
24. Frank Robinson
25. Turkey Stearns
26. Rickey Henderson -- sorry I got it wrong before
27. Pop Lloyd
28. Mel Ott
29. Jimmie Foxx
30. George Brett
31. Mark McGwire
32. Jackie Robinson
33. Pete Rose -- of course he's top 50 all time
34. Eddie Matthews
35. Craig Biggio
36. Warren Spahn
37. Carl Yastrzemski
38. Tom Seaver
39. Arky Vaughan
40. Nap LaJoie
41. Yogi Berra
42. Christy Mathewson
43. Mule Suttles
44. Johnny Bench
45. Jeff Bagwell
46. Bob Gibson
47. Kid Nichols
48. Cal Ripken
49. Roger Clemens
50. Duke Snider
Here are some others that were mentioned in this thread:
55. Robin Yount
57. Reggie Jackson
77. Ernie Banks
81. Tim Raines
100. Billy Williams
Not in the top 100: Pie Traynor, George Sisler, Lou Brock, Sammy Sosa, Paul Molitor, Don Mattingly
February 15, 2004 at 12:39PM View BBCode
According to the New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, here are the top 50 players of all time. Note that these ratings were based on performance through the 1999 season, so some current players have certainly moved up since then.1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Willie Mays
4. Oscar Charleston
5. Ty Cobb
6. Mickey Mantle
7. Ted Williams
8. Walter Johnson
9. Josh Gibson
10. Stan Musial
11. Tris Speaker
12. Henry Aaron
13. Joe DiMaggio
14. Lou Gehrig
15. Joe Morgan
16. Barry Bonds
17. Satchel Paige
18. Eddie Collins
19. Lefty Grove
20. Pete Alexander
21. Mike Schmidt
22. Rogers Hornsby
23. Cy Young
24. Frank Robinson
25. Turkey Stearns
26. Rickey Henderson -- sorry I got it wrong before
27. Pop Lloyd
28. Mel Ott
29. Jimmie Foxx
30. George Brett
31. Mark McGwire
32. Jackie Robinson
33. Pete Rose -- of course he's top 50 all time
34. Eddie Matthews
35. Craig Biggio
36. Warren Spahn
37. Carl Yastrzemski
38. Tom Seaver
39. Arky Vaughan
40. Nap LaJoie
41. Yogi Berra
42. Christy Mathewson
43. Mule Suttles
44. Johnny Bench
45. Jeff Bagwell
46. Bob Gibson
47. Kid Nichols
48. Cal Ripken
49. Roger Clemens
50. Duke Snider
Here are some others that were mentioned in this thread:
55. Robin Yount
57. Reggie Jackson
77. Ernie Banks
81. Tim Raines
100. Billy Williams
Not in the top 100: Pie Traynor, George Sisler, Lou Brock, Sammy Sosa, Paul Molitor, Don Mattingly
ME
I have never heard of him. Was he a negro league player?
February 15, 2004 at 05:21PM View BBCode
4. Oscar CharlestonI have never heard of him. Was he a negro league player?
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