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Old Forum Index » Sim Forums » Baseball Enhancements » 49 wins in a season? Total BS exploit.
ccox
[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=9022203]Check out this guy in 2003[/url] 49 wins, 120 game appearances. Give me a break. How is this a simulation of MLB?
I think this is being accomplished by setting managerial preferences to bring in the stud pitcher as soon as the "starter" allows a base runner. This exploits a "sweet spot" in the code, where the stud's strong when he enters day after day and pulled right before the decline mars his skills, which happens to be just long enough to qualify him for a ton of wins.
This nonsense has been going on in other leagues for a while and people have asked that it stop. If the code continues to get exploited in this way, simdynasty will fail to provide the experience I'm here for: to enjoy a baseball simulation that's accurate and fun. A loophole like this accomplishes neither, unless simply winning or being a dick is fun for you.
In real baseball, no team would start an inferior pitcher then bring in a better guy so early and often. It wouldn't make sense strategically, for one, because in real baseball his arm would fall off.
Also, lifetime wins, home runs, hits, strike outs, etc., are time-honored milestones many of us strive for. 300 wins is huge for a pitcher. Only 24 have done it in the bigs thus far. But with this loophole, good pitchers could hit 300 in 6 or 7 seasons and surpass Cy Young's 511 with some regularity, and easily clobber Walter Johnson's 417 (second best all time).
Please do something about this. I know this sim can't perfectly mirror baseball, but the exploit makes it far from it.
49 wins in a season? Total BS exploit.
July 26, 2013 at 10:00PM View BBCode
I'd read about this on the boards and now, seeing it in action, I must say, what a joke.[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=9022203]Check out this guy in 2003[/url] 49 wins, 120 game appearances. Give me a break. How is this a simulation of MLB?
I think this is being accomplished by setting managerial preferences to bring in the stud pitcher as soon as the "starter" allows a base runner. This exploits a "sweet spot" in the code, where the stud's strong when he enters day after day and pulled right before the decline mars his skills, which happens to be just long enough to qualify him for a ton of wins.
This nonsense has been going on in other leagues for a while and people have asked that it stop. If the code continues to get exploited in this way, simdynasty will fail to provide the experience I'm here for: to enjoy a baseball simulation that's accurate and fun. A loophole like this accomplishes neither, unless simply winning or being a dick is fun for you.
In real baseball, no team would start an inferior pitcher then bring in a better guy so early and often. It wouldn't make sense strategically, for one, because in real baseball his arm would fall off.
Also, lifetime wins, home runs, hits, strike outs, etc., are time-honored milestones many of us strive for. 300 wins is huge for a pitcher. Only 24 have done it in the bigs thus far. But with this loophole, good pitchers could hit 300 in 6 or 7 seasons and surpass Cy Young's 511 with some regularity, and easily clobber Walter Johnson's 417 (second best all time).
Please do something about this. I know this sim can't perfectly mirror baseball, but the exploit makes it far from it.
paulcaraccio
July 26, 2013 at 11:19PM View BBCode
the proposed fix has been bandied about for a long time now. There's even a very current thread over in Support about it right now. In that thread, the admins are like yeah, this is bad, and this is what we should do to fix it...and then that's it. No indication that they are going to fix it, but i guess it kind of seems like it's going to happen some day. For now I'm just really happy that it hasn't found its' way into any of my leagues, I'd throw a fit.
lemaster
Perhaps the site needs name change
July 27, 2013 at 12:54AM View BBCode
SIM Dynasty 1896 ... because that's the last time some guy wins 40 games in a season. Jesus. Fix the stupid loophole.
yanks6890
July 27, 2013 at 02:23AM View BBCode
Agreed! Sim Dynasty should be about playing the game of baseball as close to the "rules" as possible, sure there are other ways to cheat the system, but this is the worst that I've experienced so far in my many years here, and if it ever got worse, i'd think about leaving.
cdunn3
Please confirm that this loophole will be fixed.
Yes or No.
July 27, 2013 at 02:25AM View BBCode
Chris,Please confirm that this loophole will be fixed.
Yes or No.
LTJaeger
July 27, 2013 at 05:39PM View formatted
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Yeah, time for this "strategy" to die. I read about it on here with some amusement; then one of my leagues had a player do it for a couple years, and it was completely annoying and almost made me quit the league if not the game. The fix is known, is simple, and has been talked about for months. Make it happen.
redcped
Even though this pitcher didn't throw an ungodly number of innings, there has never been a real pitcher who could throw this often, let alone do it without his arm being shredded:
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3120056
If the only thing you're worried about is the Wins, then of course teaching ABE that he's allowed to give the win to someone besides the first RP would work.
You could also set up the pitching grid so no pitcher can be the first choice to come into a game in more than 5 of the 16 slots. Force you to use pitchers realistically and spread it around.
July 27, 2013 at 06:26PM View BBCode
Owners also need to be much more open to increased injuries as a solution.Even though this pitcher didn't throw an ungodly number of innings, there has never been a real pitcher who could throw this often, let alone do it without his arm being shredded:
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=3120056
If the only thing you're worried about is the Wins, then of course teaching ABE that he's allowed to give the win to someone besides the first RP would work.
You could also set up the pitching grid so no pitcher can be the first choice to come into a game in more than 5 of the 16 slots. Force you to use pitchers realistically and spread it around.
LTJaeger
July 27, 2013 at 06:42PM View BBCode
I don't think many people want to see more injuries, but I would support creation of some sort of variable on injury frequency, like incrementally increasing a pitcher's chance of being injured for every game above 90 (or whatever) that he pitches. Sort of a variation on the deterioration of health ratings for young pitchers who throw oodles of innings that we now have, except tying it in to actual injury frequency in the year in which a manager abuses a pitcher.
redcped
I know owners don't like paying for a game where their stud pitcher gets hurt, but it happens. All the time. In real baseball.
I am in favor of any improvement that gets us closer to realism.
July 27, 2013 at 11:47PM View BBCode
I'm just saying if people want to complain about lack of realism with regards to how pitchers are used, then they should accept that the seriously reduced injury frequency for pitchers should also be a concern.I know owners don't like paying for a game where their stud pitcher gets hurt, but it happens. All the time. In real baseball.
I am in favor of any improvement that gets us closer to realism.
ccox
July 28, 2013 at 12:02AM View BBCode
I like LT's suggestion of "incrementally increasing a pitcher's chance of being injured for every game above 90 (or whatever) that he pitches." And maybe that could go for pitchers above a certain number of innings (want to pitch your guy 300 innings? Here's the risk...). But honestly I'm far more concerned about ending this loophole, because it's off the BS charts comparatively.
LTJaeger
July 28, 2013 at 06:44AM View BBCode
I like that the game has injuries, but increasing them won't make it better, IMO. red, think how much more fun baseball in the late 60's would have been had the guy signing the autograph for Wilbur and Mr. Ed not injured his elbow while sliding into second base.
redcped
It's also not "fun" when your star hitter gets caught using steroids and is suspended for half a season.
But these things do happen in baseball. And I accept that what we play here is a pretty good facsimile of baseball.
Yet as long as people aren't complaining about so many other things that are unrealistic while not favoring solutions that are realistic, I think it's hard to argue that owners can't keep looking for loopholes that are left wide open.
July 28, 2013 at 05:10PM View BBCode
Certainly it's a lot less "fun" if you are the owner of the star who gets hurt. I understand that.It's also not "fun" when your star hitter gets caught using steroids and is suspended for half a season.
But these things do happen in baseball. And I accept that what we play here is a pretty good facsimile of baseball.
Yet as long as people aren't complaining about so many other things that are unrealistic while not favoring solutions that are realistic, I think it's hard to argue that owners can't keep looking for loopholes that are left wide open.
ccox
What sucks is that more people are adopting this strategy and ruining the experience for others. And as I type, [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=9022203]Jake Sisko's[/url] league is only 39 games into the season and he's already won 19 games. Give me a break.
July 29, 2013 at 01:46AM View BBCode
What you're saying makes sense, red. There are plenty of little things about simdynasty that aren't perfect, but what I'm asking is to stop this one, horrendous loophole. Maybe it can be done in a way that fixes other sim quirks, but killing this ridiculous exploit has to be priority number one.What sucks is that more people are adopting this strategy and ruining the experience for others. And as I type, [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=9022203]Jake Sisko's[/url] league is only 39 games into the season and he's already won 19 games. Give me a break.
ccox
[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=365316]Here[/url]
July 29, 2013 at 10:41PM View BBCode
Sorry, didn't see the discussion in support...thought I'd looked but obviously I hadn't very well:[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=365316]Here[/url]
KuwentongPato
I would also be open to an increased injury clause as a solution to the problem if the loophole couldn't be closed altogether. Admin, please give us an answer on this because these owners have had enough.
July 31, 2013 at 01:59AM View BBCode
Currently, Jake Sisko is already 21-0 for the season. I have enjoyed playing in this league for a long time now and have never seen a loophole exploited like this. What is more, the pitcher has carried his team almost singlehandedly into first place ahead of two very good teams and would probably not be contending otherwise. In my opinion it is a mockery in our league and I hope that admin is keeping an eye on this thread. We have a number of owners who are ready to revolt or leave over this, even longtime owners, and I would think about it too if this owner didn't say that he was leaving after this season.I would also be open to an increased injury clause as a solution to the problem if the loophole couldn't be closed altogether. Admin, please give us an answer on this because these owners have had enough.
ccox
July 31, 2013 at 12:38PM View BBCode
Looks like they're fixing it. Goes into effect next season. See the link in my last post.
tm4559
yes.
the whole thing is, they will complain about a reliever with 120 appearances and however many wins (big deal, wins are silly anyway, you should be complaining about how much it pitched, and pitched effectively, and for how many seasons in a row it can do that) but nobody will complain if they get this big A+ (or any other grade) sp and it makes 36 starts and pitchers a bunch of complete games and pitches 300+ innings for 13 seasons (or even more) in a row. you won't won't hear a complaint. but a real life pitcher can't do that either. the human arm just plain.........can't...........do............it.
August 01, 2013 at 03:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by redcped
I'm just saying if people want to complain about lack of realism with regards to how pitchers are used, then they should accept that the seriously reduced injury frequency for pitchers should also be a concern.
I know owners don't like paying for a game where their stud pitcher gets hurt, but it happens. All the time. In real baseball.
I am in favor of any improvement that gets us closer to realism.
yes.
the whole thing is, they will complain about a reliever with 120 appearances and however many wins (big deal, wins are silly anyway, you should be complaining about how much it pitched, and pitched effectively, and for how many seasons in a row it can do that) but nobody will complain if they get this big A+ (or any other grade) sp and it makes 36 starts and pitchers a bunch of complete games and pitches 300+ innings for 13 seasons (or even more) in a row. you won't won't hear a complaint. but a real life pitcher can't do that either. the human arm just plain.........can't...........do............it.
tm4559
August 01, 2013 at 04:54PM View BBCode
(what i am really trying to say is, i object to the fixing of so called loopholes vis a vi relievers and leaving glaring issues like the one cited above alone. if you visit all the "fixes" on the relievers-and often, that has been the case, truly-you just drive up the already inflated value of these silly starting pitchers. IMO.)
ccox
But 300 innings is nowhere near as ridiculous as 49 wins in a season, and I think it's important to at least get things closer to reality before fine-tuning. In the 70s and 80s, quite a few reached over 300, but no one has won more than 41 games since 1904, and that guy threw 454 innings at a time less demanding on the arm.
If the code were tweeked to allow a pitcher no more than 250 innings or so (to match the modern era), it should also change so that a player doesn't decline so soon. Otherwise I don' t see how any pitcher reaches 300 wins ever again unless he gets crazy lucky on minimal declines. The early declines also make it (nearly) impossible for a power hitter to near 600 home runs. He either putters out. Or retires.
August 01, 2013 at 06:47PM View BBCode
I agree that sim pitching is silly at times.But 300 innings is nowhere near as ridiculous as 49 wins in a season, and I think it's important to at least get things closer to reality before fine-tuning. In the 70s and 80s, quite a few reached over 300, but no one has won more than 41 games since 1904, and that guy threw 454 innings at a time less demanding on the arm.
If the code were tweeked to allow a pitcher no more than 250 innings or so (to match the modern era), it should also change so that a player doesn't decline so soon. Otherwise I don' t see how any pitcher reaches 300 wins ever again unless he gets crazy lucky on minimal declines. The early declines also make it (nearly) impossible for a power hitter to near 600 home runs. He either putters out. Or retires.
thatrogue
August 01, 2013 at 07:57PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559Well...it could if you didn't have to throw 80+ as well as mix in the sliders and curveballs. (Which is why pitchers could do it before the modern era of baseball.)
Originally posted by redcped
I'm just saying if people want to complain about lack of realism with regards to how pitchers are used, then they should accept that the seriously reduced injury frequency for pitchers should also be a concern.
I know owners don't like paying for a game where their stud pitcher gets hurt, but it happens. All the time. In real baseball.
I am in favor of any improvement that gets us closer to realism.
yes.
the whole thing is, they will complain about a reliever with 120 appearances and however many wins (big deal, wins are silly anyway, you should be complaining about how much it pitched, and pitched effectively, and for how many seasons in a row it can do that) but nobody will complain if they get this big A+ (or any other grade) sp and it makes 36 starts and pitchers a bunch of complete games and pitches 300+ innings for 13 seasons (or even more) in a row. you won't won't hear a complaint. but a real life pitcher can't do that either. the human arm just plain.........can't...........do............it.
thatrogue
Now that could be interesting.
August 01, 2013 at 08:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by redcpedHmmmmm.... Can we start a league where, every so often, a major league aged hitter has a ridiculous improvement season, and then, a few seasons down the line, has an increasing chance of getting suspended for 50 games AND suffering significant declines, pre-OS34?
Certainly it's a lot less "fun" if you are the owner of the star who gets hurt. I understand that.
It's also not "fun" when your star hitter gets caught using steroids and is suspended for half a season.
But these things do happen in baseball. And I accept that what we play here is a pretty good facsimile of baseball.
Yet as long as people aren't complaining about so many other things that are unrealistic while not favoring solutions that are realistic, I think it's hard to argue that owners can't keep looking for loopholes that are left wide open.
Now that could be interesting.
tm4559
i am not suggesting the code be changed to reflect the modern era. i am saying if the things pitch past 250 innings or so (whatever level, there is a problem when you put in a level though because everyone games it) they would be far more succeptible to injury. and they wouldn't start declining at 34. they would start declining much sooner, especially if there were no career ending injuries. now, put in the career enders? and you can have all the years with milder declines you want.
August 01, 2013 at 08:12PM View BBCode
yes, 300 innings for even as much as eight or nine seasons in a row is more ridiculous than 49 wins (listen. it is EASY to make a fake pitcher do this. if it happened in real life? the guy would make more money than [color=red]GOD[/color]). the wins are just a statistic (the team wins ok? some pitcher gets credit. big...........deal..........it..........means...........nothing. the innings that a simulated starting pitcher can log, season after season after season? reflect a physical impossibility.i am not suggesting the code be changed to reflect the modern era. i am saying if the things pitch past 250 innings or so (whatever level, there is a problem when you put in a level though because everyone games it) they would be far more succeptible to injury. and they wouldn't start declining at 34. they would start declining much sooner, especially if there were no career ending injuries. now, put in the career enders? and you can have all the years with milder declines you want.
tm4559
August 01, 2013 at 08:14PM View BBCode
((or, truly, we can have it all just like it is, because its fine, you can abuse every kind of pitcher and rack up stats, whatever. i just object to singling out the abuses of relievers is all. its the same thing, what they do to rp and sp is the same sort of silly. but one is bad, and one is ok. make them both bad, or let them both be.))
thatrogue
August 01, 2013 at 09:27PM View BBCode
I'd be interested in seeing a league that was more modern (more frequent injuries, potential career ending injuries, deeper minor leagues, more productive careers into their late thirties, etc.). But yeah, as a community, we're a little picky about our causes, aren't we? SP abuse and SB abuse is just as common, but nooooooooo one complains about it.
dirtdevil
SB abuse most people don't even see.
August 01, 2013 at 10:26PM View BBCode
I think it's partly because the SP abuse looks normal when it's happening. He starts every 5 days, which of course he should and he doesn't get hurt, which we like. he pitches 7-8 innings every time out, which of course our ace should. Then at the end of the year when he has racked up 290 IP, we chalk it up to smart team management. When a RP starts pitching 2-3 innings three days of every four it looks odd, because none of our team's real life relievers can do that. It sticks out so someone calls BS on it.SB abuse most people don't even see.