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JoeyMac08
AFE wont let me win here!
August 17, 2014 at 03:36PM View BBCode
I take the lead and Montreal scores twice in the last 1:48 to win. The Sim Bowl i made in 2033, I give up the lead late and miss an 18 yard field goal to send it to overtime. Man 1-5 in Sim Bowls. Thats down right terrible!
shbo2
August 17, 2014 at 04:07PM View BBCode
That's nothing, I went 0-6 over an 8 season span in the BSFL.
RichNYC1
Its very tough to defend, youīre damned if you do your damned if you don't. But you cant blitz on every play either. I have been trying to play ball control to keep the big offenses off the field, but itīs not working for me because as long as you can just chuck it deep you are going to put up points and playing ball control doesn't allow you to try to match them score for score. Someone has to figure out a way to stop it, but the game is very tilted to the benefit of the deep ball and it seemed to me that long throws got easier (AFE stat balancing?) as the season went on. Add in that the league overall rushing average is 4.6 per carry, I have no idea what to do, its like Madden.
Then you get this game where [url=http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=537203&statsyear=2037&statstype=post&statsmode=pass&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1]Carl Wilson,[/url] 79 THP/95 ACC and 38 EXE, and [url=http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=523681&statsyear=2037&statstype=post&statsmode=pass&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1]Jason McElmurry,[/url] 91 THP/85 ACC, completing 50+% on long passes while their teams both averaged (only) 3.1 per carry. Thatīs a very odd stat. If your running game is not working it should benefit the defense when you do throw, not the other way around.
Of course you could have been Jack in the Conference Championship where the game was turned on penalties. Edmonton, after finding a way to control the bombing, 10 points allowed through 3 quarters, (McElmurry was only 7 of 15 on 20+ yard throws!) gets 7 of their 11 penalties in the 4th quarter, 4 of which were holding calls. It totally changed the game. I mean seriously, penalties happen, but is that what we want? Games decided on penalties? I know my team is seeing a lot of flags, obviously Iīm not the only one. :saint:
August 17, 2014 at 05:52PM View BBCode
I watched part of that game, you blitzed on every single play in the first half, its a miracle they didnt get more than 21 points. Thatīs where the game was lost. But still, the game is right where itīs always been. MTL threw 41% of their 31 passes 20+ yards and completed 53% of them with just one pick. You threw 33% of your 42 passes 20+ yards for 41% completion rate and no picks.Its very tough to defend, youīre damned if you do your damned if you don't. But you cant blitz on every play either. I have been trying to play ball control to keep the big offenses off the field, but itīs not working for me because as long as you can just chuck it deep you are going to put up points and playing ball control doesn't allow you to try to match them score for score. Someone has to figure out a way to stop it, but the game is very tilted to the benefit of the deep ball and it seemed to me that long throws got easier (AFE stat balancing?) as the season went on. Add in that the league overall rushing average is 4.6 per carry, I have no idea what to do, its like Madden.
Then you get this game where [url=http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=537203&statsyear=2037&statstype=post&statsmode=pass&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1]Carl Wilson,[/url] 79 THP/95 ACC and 38 EXE, and [url=http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?displaytab=stats&id=523681&statsyear=2037&statstype=post&statsmode=pass&statsloc=all&statsweather=-1]Jason McElmurry,[/url] 91 THP/85 ACC, completing 50+% on long passes while their teams both averaged (only) 3.1 per carry. Thatīs a very odd stat. If your running game is not working it should benefit the defense when you do throw, not the other way around.
Of course you could have been Jack in the Conference Championship where the game was turned on penalties. Edmonton, after finding a way to control the bombing, 10 points allowed through 3 quarters, (McElmurry was only 7 of 15 on 20+ yard throws!) gets 7 of their 11 penalties in the 4th quarter, 4 of which were holding calls. It totally changed the game. I mean seriously, penalties happen, but is that what we want? Games decided on penalties? I know my team is seeing a lot of flags, obviously Iīm not the only one. :saint:
JoeyMac08
August 17, 2014 at 06:30PM View BBCode
That was the D I ran the first half. The second half I ran a pass D with some blitz mixed in. When the clock hits 2mins left in this game, it's like there isn't a defense on the field. My 2 min D was almost exclusively deep zone yet he completed most of his deep passes. I experiment with different strategies in this league. I don't mind getting burnt when I'm blitzing, but this time I actually wasn't. BTW, I've been pretty successful blitzing at a high rate in this league. I will be trying some new schemes next season now lol.
Stuthecool626
August 17, 2014 at 07:16PM View BBCode
I have never won or lost a game based off of penalties but ball controlling and stealing possessions is a way I learned how to at least try to slow down the high powered offenses like Montreal and Phoenix it does work if you execute it correctly like I did week 17 vs Phoenix but if you don't do it right you'll get burned to a crisp like I did vs Montreal week 1 here's a tip if you have good corners play man v man and mix in the blitz if you only have one good corner or none blitz them like crazy and on offense do multiple things to throw them off and get enough points to win your welcome;) P.S. It might not stop them completely but it will give you a comfortable position in the game
RichNYC1
The Prevent has its weaknesses but in SD itīs like the length of the gains are just too high. You should get not get beat on long balls more than 10% of the time when you are in Prevent because you have many more people back there than the offense does. Deep passes are successful late in games vs the blitz or a blown coverage, sure, but against the Prevent? That usally take a special throw. And it doesnt happen a lot. And while the QB will have many opportunities on short and medium throws the receiver should have much less a chance to get a big YAC because its a zone and everyone is back keeping plays in front of them. Once a catch is made you have to beat multiple guys.
August 17, 2014 at 08:18PM View BBCode
Joey, I agree with you about the last two minutes, its like the Deep (Twilight) Zone. Either the Defense is Keyed-In to every play or every offense play is successful. They run, itīs 10+ yards, they throw short and they break a tackle for 20+, (that happened 2x in this game) they throw it deep and its a catch.The Prevent has its weaknesses but in SD itīs like the length of the gains are just too high. You should get not get beat on long balls more than 10% of the time when you are in Prevent because you have many more people back there than the offense does. Deep passes are successful late in games vs the blitz or a blown coverage, sure, but against the Prevent? That usally take a special throw. And it doesnt happen a lot. And while the QB will have many opportunities on short and medium throws the receiver should have much less a chance to get a big YAC because its a zone and everyone is back keeping plays in front of them. Once a catch is made you have to beat multiple guys.
sjpode
And like Rich said also, playing " prevent" and never seen so many dodged or missed tackles for such long yardage gains. That is the part that bothers me. If these corners tackled like this in NFL.... they would never make the team.
August 18, 2014 at 12:28AM View BBCode
Originally posted by JoeyMac08I know exactly what you are talking about Joey. seen that same thing happen over and over again. Play short zone, deep zone, man2man, for most part and they drive right down the fileld like you said.
That was the D I ran the first half. The second half I ran a pass D with some blitz mixed in. When the clock hits 2mins left in this game, it's like there isn't a defense on the field. My 2 min D was almost exclusively deep zone yet he completed most of his deep passes. I experiment with different strategies in this league. I don't mind getting burnt when I'm blitzing, but this time I actually wasn't. BTW, I've been pretty successful blitzing at a high rate in this league. I will be trying some new schemes next season now lol.
And like Rich said also, playing " prevent" and never seen so many dodged or missed tackles for such long yardage gains. That is the part that bothers me. If these corners tackled like this in NFL.... they would never make the team.
Stuthecool626
00:41. 17 24 PHX 1/10 PHX 20
1st and 10 for the Reapers, they huddle and line up in a Shotgun; the Bolts line up in a 4-2-5 Nickel.
Niko Walton takes the snap and drops back into the pocket.
Walton passes to Dale Quigley at the JAX 41.
DEBUG: Calculated completion chance: 47%
The ball is caught at the JAX 41 by Dale Quigley.
Quigley dodges a tackle by Roosevelt Hart.
Pass by Niko Walton is completed to Dale Quigley for a 47 yard gain.
DEBUG: Crediting Charles Van Divier with the tackle
First down for the Phoenix Reapers!
00:34 17 24 PHX 1/10 JAX 33
1st and 10 for the Reapers, they hurry through a huddle and line up in a Shotgun; the Bolts line up in a 4-2-5 Nickel.
Ashley Garlin takes the snap and drops back into the pocket.
Garlin passes to Jerry Gantt at the JAX 8.
DEBUG: Calculated completion chance: 75%
The ball is caught at the JAX 8 by Jerry Gantt.
Pass by Ashley Garlin is completed to Jerry Gantt for a 25 yard gain.
DEBUG: Crediting Richard Palmer with the tackle
First down for the Phoenix Reapers!
I accidentally didnt have deep zone and I got burned badly 72 yards in 2 PLAYS!!
August 18, 2014 at 12:36AM View BBCode
That has happened to me too just look at this its the perfect example00:41. 17 24 PHX 1/10 PHX 20
1st and 10 for the Reapers, they huddle and line up in a Shotgun; the Bolts line up in a 4-2-5 Nickel.
Niko Walton takes the snap and drops back into the pocket.
Walton passes to Dale Quigley at the JAX 41.
DEBUG: Calculated completion chance: 47%
The ball is caught at the JAX 41 by Dale Quigley.
Quigley dodges a tackle by Roosevelt Hart.
Pass by Niko Walton is completed to Dale Quigley for a 47 yard gain.
DEBUG: Crediting Charles Van Divier with the tackle
First down for the Phoenix Reapers!
00:34 17 24 PHX 1/10 JAX 33
1st and 10 for the Reapers, they hurry through a huddle and line up in a Shotgun; the Bolts line up in a 4-2-5 Nickel.
Ashley Garlin takes the snap and drops back into the pocket.
Garlin passes to Jerry Gantt at the JAX 8.
DEBUG: Calculated completion chance: 75%
The ball is caught at the JAX 8 by Jerry Gantt.
Pass by Ashley Garlin is completed to Jerry Gantt for a 25 yard gain.
DEBUG: Crediting Richard Palmer with the tackle
First down for the Phoenix Reapers!
I accidentally didnt have deep zone and I got burned badly 72 yards in 2 PLAYS!!
casperthegm
Deep zone/prevent should be something that "prevents" deep passes from being completed, at least not at the percentage we often see here. It should have plenty of opportunities to completed passes underneath, so those would be completed at a high percentage,with the trade-off of having to march down the field in shorter increments (and eating up clock). Even if you don't blitz it should still be difficult to complete deep passes regularly. Blitzing when the offensive play call is to go deep should pay some decent dividends for the defense. Or aggressive qb's could try to force it deep and should pay the penalty for not using the check-down. That's exactly how it should work...
[Edited on 8-18-2014 by casperthegm]
August 18, 2014 at 12:37AM View BBCode
Dodged tackles are in part because I think some owners play db's with less than optimal agility. But still....Deep zone/prevent should be something that "prevents" deep passes from being completed, at least not at the percentage we often see here. It should have plenty of opportunities to completed passes underneath, so those would be completed at a high percentage,with the trade-off of having to march down the field in shorter increments (and eating up clock). Even if you don't blitz it should still be difficult to complete deep passes regularly. Blitzing when the offensive play call is to go deep should pay some decent dividends for the defense. Or aggressive qb's could try to force it deep and should pay the penalty for not using the check-down. That's exactly how it should work...
[Edited on 8-18-2014 by casperthegm]
nhat8121
I get burn plenty of times on Defense with prevent vs long shotgun...I'd like a little randomness to the game, the fun part.
Soon, you'll complain about why you could never complete a pass with long shotgun.
August 18, 2014 at 12:51AM View BBCode
I don't mind the old ways, when prevent wouldn't turn on automatically whenever i do deep passes...I get burn plenty of times on Defense with prevent vs long shotgun...I'd like a little randomness to the game, the fun part.
Soon, you'll complain about why you could never complete a pass with long shotgun.
sjpode
There are some teams who make a living off the deep pass from start to finish.
Driving down the field in 4 plays every drive. Nearly ever a drop or incomplete pass. Broken or dodged tackle every play. On m2m , on blitzes, on zones..
Either the WR break tackle is schewed too high or the CB tackling not high enough. Would seem to me anyway. CB with b+ rating or sometimes even higher.
August 18, 2014 at 12:57AM View BBCode
That is correct to a point casper. But you didn't address the tackling situation.There are some teams who make a living off the deep pass from start to finish.
Driving down the field in 4 plays every drive. Nearly ever a drop or incomplete pass. Broken or dodged tackle every play. On m2m , on blitzes, on zones..
Either the WR break tackle is schewed too high or the CB tackling not high enough. Would seem to me anyway. CB with b+ rating or sometimes even higher.
JoeyMac08
August 18, 2014 at 02:08AM View BBCode
Nhat..... I'm just bring up the point I shut you down the whole second half, and when the 2 mins kicks in I can't stop you. I was playing the deep pass almost exclusively. Oh well. Good game. I've probably played the closest Sim bowls in the history here.
RichNYC1
Now that we have eliminated the BOT teams we get to see much more realistically how fully manned pay leagues play and draft. Important stuff. But Nat brings out an interesting point. Some people may just want to bomb it around and play games that are fun, regardless of how realistic it is, and keeping the game marketable is important, we can never forget that.
[Edited on 10/04/06 by RichNYC1]
August 18, 2014 at 03:32PM View BBCode
This is a test league and while it is and should be competitive our job as testers is to review and analyze what is happening and then make intelligent comments and suggestions on what we are seeing. Those comments and suggestions are subject to debate by all testers, not everyone is going to agree, and its important to get different opinions. I like seeing the different points of view here.Now that we have eliminated the BOT teams we get to see much more realistically how fully manned pay leagues play and draft. Important stuff. But Nat brings out an interesting point. Some people may just want to bomb it around and play games that are fun, regardless of how realistic it is, and keeping the game marketable is important, we can never forget that.
[Edited on 10/04/06 by RichNYC1]
nhat8121
August 18, 2014 at 09:33PM View BBCode
AFE doesn't like me. Playing in dome, missing FGs left and right everywhere.
blakjakshalak
You can weather the long pass completions if your defense tackles well. It's the YACs that will kill you. It seems counter-intuitive, but the thing to do against the mad bomber is to stop the run and tackle well on all the short stuff. That limits his opportunities. And all he has left is the low percentage plays.
[Edited on 8-19-2014 by blakjakshalak]
August 19, 2014 at 01:47AM View BBCode
My team plays in a God-forsaken ice pit. That puts a damper on the long passing game quite nicely:DYou can weather the long pass completions if your defense tackles well. It's the YACs that will kill you. It seems counter-intuitive, but the thing to do against the mad bomber is to stop the run and tackle well on all the short stuff. That limits his opportunities. And all he has left is the low percentage plays.
[Edited on 8-19-2014 by blakjakshalak]
lancereisen
Joey, I've played jr. coach; changing strategies at 1/2 time in playoff games. Don't think it works. I believe the sim grinds on inexorably from kickoff to the final gun.
The working theory here is that those that deign to work need to be protected from those w/ too much time on their hands.
This changing strategies at 1/2 time is something I'd like to see in the final form of this game, when it is slowed down and each playoff takes a full day realtime. Then the 1st half could be played @ 10-11 am and the 2nd half @ 7-8 pm w/ 8 hrs for strategy changes. This should work for all but the most ardent workaholics/partyers.
August 20, 2014 at 05:23AM View BBCode
Originally posted by JoeyMac08
That was the D I ran the first half. The second half I ran a pass D with some blitz mixed in.
Joey, I've played jr. coach; changing strategies at 1/2 time in playoff games. Don't think it works. I believe the sim grinds on inexorably from kickoff to the final gun.
The working theory here is that those that deign to work need to be protected from those w/ too much time on their hands.
This changing strategies at 1/2 time is something I'd like to see in the final form of this game, when it is slowed down and each playoff takes a full day realtime. Then the 1st half could be played @ 10-11 am and the 2nd half @ 7-8 pm w/ 8 hrs for strategy changes. This should work for all but the most ardent workaholics/partyers.
lancereisen
Offensively, I can see making a strategy change, especially if one received the kickoff.
And then there's the mad dash before the 4th qtr: should I hold the line?, prevent defense?, GARSH, I GOTTA SCORE A BUNDLE!?
[Edited on 8-20-2014 by lancereisen]
August 20, 2014 at 05:40AM View BBCode
Quarterly strategy changes weren't mentioned because there isn't enough information to make a logical defensive change and we run into that time thing w/ working folks, again.Offensively, I can see making a strategy change, especially if one received the kickoff.
And then there's the mad dash before the 4th qtr: should I hold the line?, prevent defense?, GARSH, I GOTTA SCORE A BUNDLE!?
[Edited on 8-20-2014 by lancereisen]
Admin
Thanks!
Chris
August 20, 2014 at 08:03AM View BBCode
There is code to tamp down on long passes against prevent. The bug may be more in YAC. Can you post a couple of links to games with major instances of a long pass beating prevents so I can look at the logs?Thanks!
Chris
JoeyMac08
August 20, 2014 at 04:49PM View formatted
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I'm not sure what the added time between quarters or half's would do. I already have a run d, a pass d, and a deep pass d/2 min d in my strategy.
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