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theKnightofNi
Greatest Pitcher
January 16, 2005 at 04:07PM View BBCode
Who is the greatest pitcher of all time? Is it Nolan Ryan, or Cy Young, or someone else? Will we have to break it down by era? If you had one game to win, who would you want on the mound?
INDIANSFORLIFE
Give me Satchell Paige anyday, even though most of his playing years are cloudy at best.
January 16, 2005 at 04:08PM View BBCode
Def not Nolan Ryan...Too many losses/walks....Give me Satchell Paige anyday, even though most of his playing years are cloudy at best.
whiskybear
Is it Nolan Ryan, or Cy Young, or someone else?
Gosh, I think I'll go with someone else.
January 16, 2005 at 04:32PM View BBCode
Originally posted by theKnightofNi
Who is the greatest pitcher of all time? Is it Nolan Ryan, or Cy Young, or someone else?
Is it Nolan Ryan, or Cy Young, or someone else?
Gosh, I think I'll go with someone else.
JulioF
January 16, 2005 at 04:47PM View BBCode
I'd take Addie Joss in his prime. Joss owns the second-lowest career ERA in history. He was the best Tribesman to ever toe the rubber.
anjo25
January 16, 2005 at 07:03PM View BBCode
I'll say Satchell Paige, Randy Johnson, Bob Feller, Cy Young, Mordecai Brown...
abarkov
January 16, 2005 at 07:40PM View BBCode
Ah the Big Train Walter Johnson has to be in there somewhere.
JLlamas
January 16, 2005 at 07:47PM View BBCode
Christy Mattewson, Walter Johnson, Satchel Paige, Catfish hunter, Jim Abbot(come on he only had one arm)
whiskybear
Catfish Hunter? You lost me there...
Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Carlton, Spahn (and Sain and pray for rain), Seaver, Whitey Ford...
January 16, 2005 at 07:54PM View BBCode
Originally posted by JLlamas
Christy Mattewson, Walter Johnson, Satchel Paige, Catfish hunter, Jim Abbot(come on he only had one arm)
Catfish Hunter? You lost me there...
Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Carlton, Spahn (and Sain and pray for rain), Seaver, Whitey Ford...
abarkov
January 16, 2005 at 07:57PM View BBCode
If Drysdale is in there anywhere, should Juan Marichal no be included?
whiskybear
Of course, but what's wrong with Drysdale? It's not like I said Don Sutton.
January 16, 2005 at 07:58PM View BBCode
Originally posted by abarkov
If Drysdale is in there anywhere, should Juan Marichal no be included?
Of course, but what's wrong with Drysdale? It's not like I said Don Sutton.
abarkov
January 16, 2005 at 08:00PM View formatted
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Nothing wrong with Drysdale, I like how we was not afraid to the the hitters a close shave.
drunkengoat
January 16, 2005 at 08:17PM View BBCode
I don't find it a coincidence that the two most dominant pitchers in the history of baseball (for their times, even) have the word "Big" in their nickname and share the last name "Johnson."
youngallstar
7 no hitters, most strikeouts ever, beat up an annoyingly cocky Rovin Ventura.
Of course its Nolan Ryan.
*waits for Furious to come on and bash Nolan*
January 16, 2005 at 09:30PM View BBCode
Originally posted by INDIANSFORLIFE
Def not Nolan Ryan...Too many losses/walks....
Give me Satchell Paige anyday, even though most of his playing years are cloudy at best.
7 no hitters, most strikeouts ever, beat up an annoyingly cocky Rovin Ventura.
Of course its Nolan Ryan.
*waits for Furious to come on and bash Nolan*
FuriousGiorge
Seriously, I don't need to say anything like "Nolan Ryan wasn't that good" or "you're smoking the crack again, YAZ" or "Nolan Ryan eats a big fat donkey dick" because I'm sure other people will do that for me.
January 16, 2005 at 09:38PM View BBCode
I tried bashing Nolan Ryan once but it didn't work out too well.
Seriously, I don't need to say anything like "Nolan Ryan wasn't that good" or "you're smoking the crack again, YAZ" or "Nolan Ryan eats a big fat donkey dick" because I'm sure other people will do that for me.
youngallstar
January 16, 2005 at 09:44PM View BBCode
What pitcher will play for as long as Nolan and have as many strikeouts and no hitters? No one :)
prvev
Anyway, Koufax was the best for that 5 or 6 year period, but he didn't pitch long enough to be considered the best ever. Either Gibson or Grove is best, in my opinion.
January 16, 2005 at 09:49PM View BBCode
What pitcher will come along and throw as many walks as Ryan? No one. :PAnyway, Koufax was the best for that 5 or 6 year period, but he didn't pitch long enough to be considered the best ever. Either Gibson or Grove is best, in my opinion.
FuriousGiorge
And...?
Sam Crawford has the most career triples for a hitter, with 309. No one is going to have that many again in the forseeable future. No one claims Crawford is the best hitter ever: triples are a positive thing that a hitter contributes, just like strikeouts are for a pitcher, but they aren't anywhere close to the complete story.
Sammy Sosa and Johnny Mize are tied for the most 3-HR games, with 6. No one claims they are the best ever. This is comparable to Ryan's 7 no-hitters - they show excellence for one day, and are a nice thing to put on your HOF plaque, but don't tell you anything about the player's quality over his career.
I don't know how else to explain this. No one still thinks Nolan Ryan is anywhere within the circle of "best pitchers ever" and his career his diminished in the eyes of most observers since he retired. When he was active people thought of him as an all-time dominator because he could be on any given day. But he could also be decidedly mediocre, and as we get further from his active playing days his numbers take on more importance in how he is judged and, quite frankly, they ain't that great. They are HOF great, but not anywhere near all-time great.
January 16, 2005 at 10:54PM View BBCode
Originally posted by youngallstar
What pitcher will play for as long as Nolan and have as many strikeouts and no hitters? No one :)
And...?
Sam Crawford has the most career triples for a hitter, with 309. No one is going to have that many again in the forseeable future. No one claims Crawford is the best hitter ever: triples are a positive thing that a hitter contributes, just like strikeouts are for a pitcher, but they aren't anywhere close to the complete story.
Sammy Sosa and Johnny Mize are tied for the most 3-HR games, with 6. No one claims they are the best ever. This is comparable to Ryan's 7 no-hitters - they show excellence for one day, and are a nice thing to put on your HOF plaque, but don't tell you anything about the player's quality over his career.
I don't know how else to explain this. No one still thinks Nolan Ryan is anywhere within the circle of "best pitchers ever" and his career his diminished in the eyes of most observers since he retired. When he was active people thought of him as an all-time dominator because he could be on any given day. But he could also be decidedly mediocre, and as we get further from his active playing days his numbers take on more importance in how he is judged and, quite frankly, they ain't that great. They are HOF great, but not anywhere near all-time great.
youngallstar
They are not the same.
January 16, 2005 at 11:06PM View BBCode
Wha? You are comparing most career triples and most career 3 run homerun games to total strikeouts and no hitters??? Strange...They are not the same.
DougB
January 16, 2005 at 11:40PM View BBCode
http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=56708
FuriousGiorge
Just because my categories don't get the press that your categories get doesn't mean they aren't equally valuable. Triples and 3-HR games might not be as sexy as strikeouts and no-hitters (and mine aren't held by the same player) but they are extremely comparable.
YAZ, I like you. But this Nolan Ryan crap is some sort of neurological disorder, like Rain Man or Awakenings. So either you are in some way brain damaged, or you know you're wrong and just like making the argument. Personally, I'm putting my money on....the first one. Seek professional help.
January 16, 2005 at 11:59PM View BBCode
Originally posted by youngallstar
Wha? You are comparing most career triples and most career 3 run homerun games to total strikeouts and no hitters??? Strange...
They are not the same.
Just because my categories don't get the press that your categories get doesn't mean they aren't equally valuable. Triples and 3-HR games might not be as sexy as strikeouts and no-hitters (and mine aren't held by the same player) but they are extremely comparable.
YAZ, I like you. But this Nolan Ryan crap is some sort of neurological disorder, like Rain Man or Awakenings. So either you are in some way brain damaged, or you know you're wrong and just like making the argument. Personally, I'm putting my money on....the first one. Seek professional help.