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Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Off Topic » Best Catcher ever
| Poll: Best Catcher ever | |
|---|---|
| Ivan Rodriguez | 3 |
| Johnny Bench | 3 |
| Yogi Berra | 3 |
| Josh Gibson | 7 |
Cubsfan13
Best Catcher ever
October 08, 2003 at 12:35AM View BBCode
I know it is very hard to judge just wondering about everyones opinion. Would especially like to hear from those who got to see Bench ( I didn't). I voted for Pudge because he is not only a great batter but has thrown out about 50% of base stealers in his career.
knoxville
October 08, 2003 at 03:10AM View BBCode
are we just talking about defensive catchers? if not, why isnt mike piazza in the poll?
geoffrey13
silly time for such a poll
October 08, 2003 at 03:36AM View BBCode
and there are a few guys missing...unfortunately, most if not all of us never saw Josh Gibson play...but he was considered (and still is) by almost all in the game at the time (Bill James considers him "probably" the best of all tiem) to be the best catcher of all time. But my choice of MLB catchers didn't even make your poll for some unknown reason...Yogi Berra. Of course it helps that I've been reading the newer version of the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. Pudge Rodriguez is great, no doubt...but not near being #1, not yet.
farfetched
October 08, 2003 at 05:41AM View BBCode
Am I the only one who thinks Johnny Bench was the greatest backstop in every sense of the word?
Meathead44
October 08, 2003 at 07:06AM View BBCode
Johnny Bench is the best and most complete catcher that I've ever seen play. But from all accounts I've heard, there has never been and will never be a catcher like Josh Gibson.
HollywoodOz
October 08, 2003 at 08:39AM View BBCode
Piazza doesn't deserve to be anywhere near this list. He's a first baseman who fills a gap at catcher.
Unclescam777
My vote goes for Josh Gibson. The guy was incredible, and some say that he was a better homerun hitter than Babe Ruth, and he was damn good behind the plate too.
October 08, 2003 at 01:02PM View BBCode
Hollywood I completely agree, and I'm a Met fan. I don't like catchers who can't do anything behind the plate.My vote goes for Josh Gibson. The guy was incredible, and some say that he was a better homerun hitter than Babe Ruth, and he was damn good behind the plate too.
knoxville
and yogi berra IS on the poll.
October 08, 2003 at 01:41PM View BBCode
i never said piazza was a good catcher defensively, thats why i asked if we're talking based on defense alone. and if we arent, then why isnt he there.and yogi berra IS on the poll.
tysonlowery
October 08, 2003 at 01:46PM View BBCode
Piazza may be the greatest hitting catcher of all time - especially if you factor in stadium factors. Consider that he's played a lot of his career at Dodger Stadium, which is a pitchers park. I believe Shea is considered a pitchers park also.
ME
with josh gibson its hard to know how good he was cause the negro league didn't keep good statistics like MLB does.
October 08, 2003 at 05:30PM View BBCode
Piazza is by far the best hitting catcher of all time, though he got worse at defense as he got older and to the point now where anyone can steal off him. when he was younger he was an ok defensive catcher.with josh gibson its hard to know how good he was cause the negro league didn't keep good statistics like MLB does.
happy
October 08, 2003 at 06:03PM View BBCode
ok, Gibson was possibly the best defensive catcher ever because he threw out a huge % of people, and was in the negro leagues, and NOT TRYING TO BE RACIST, but blacks are generally faster than whites, so it was even more important in that league. Id say of everyone in Major League history, I Rod is SO much better than everyone else. I dont think Gibson can be compared since you dont know how good at hitting he was, and how good at D he would be in Major leauges.
HollywoodOz
How do your three African American friends like you calling them "blacks"?
October 08, 2003 at 07:02PM View BBCode
You may not have been trying to be racist, but you pulled it off pretty well.How do your three African American friends like you calling them "blacks"?
skierdude44
October 08, 2003 at 07:49PM View formatted
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happy if u can pull up a stat that proves that african americans are faster than whites than i will get off ur back but until than that is a racist comment. now back to the question, since i kno basically nothing about josh gibson and prolly the most about pudge and am i alittle bias toward berra cuz he wuz a yankee i am not a good judge on this. i voted berra but from ppls arguments for gibson it makes him seem to b the obvious choice. about piazza well posada is just as good offensively as him and a hell of a lot bettr defensively. piazza is a dh in the national league impersonating a catcher.
FuriousGiorge
Piazza: .319/.388/.572, spending his whole career, as Tyson pointed out, in pitcher's parks.
Posada: .270/.375/.474, playing in a basically neutral home park.
Piazza has never gotten the credit he deserves for his defense, and I know people think that's crazy, but it's true. Yes, he's bad at throwing runners out, really bad, and that's a problem. But Piazza is not bad at blocking the ball in the dirt, which is also a tremendously important skill for a catcher. And for those who believe in a catcher's ability to call a game, Piazza has spent pretty much his whole career catching above-average pitching staffs, even though he's never really had the benefit of a true ace to bolster his "catcher ERA". Yes, they were in pitcher's parks, but they were still better than average even taking that into account. Consistently better than average.
And with all that, I would probably say Josh Gibson. Everyone who saw him play was blown away by him, defensively and offensively. My God, if he'd have been given a chance to play in the majors....
October 08, 2003 at 09:27PM View BBCode
Posada over the course of his career has clearly NOT been as valuable offensively as Piazza, although Posada is a good hitter too. The relevant career totals:Piazza: .319/.388/.572, spending his whole career, as Tyson pointed out, in pitcher's parks.
Posada: .270/.375/.474, playing in a basically neutral home park.
Piazza has never gotten the credit he deserves for his defense, and I know people think that's crazy, but it's true. Yes, he's bad at throwing runners out, really bad, and that's a problem. But Piazza is not bad at blocking the ball in the dirt, which is also a tremendously important skill for a catcher. And for those who believe in a catcher's ability to call a game, Piazza has spent pretty much his whole career catching above-average pitching staffs, even though he's never really had the benefit of a true ace to bolster his "catcher ERA". Yes, they were in pitcher's parks, but they were still better than average even taking that into account. Consistently better than average.
And with all that, I would probably say Josh Gibson. Everyone who saw him play was blown away by him, defensively and offensively. My God, if he'd have been given a chance to play in the majors....
ME
back to catchers, piazza's batting average is what seperates him from all the rest. i believe his career average is around .320, which is way better than bench's or even posada's, and you have to remember him from before he got old and got worthless at defense, when he was ok at it like posada is now,
October 08, 2003 at 09:27PM View BBCode
just about all the receivers in the NFL are black, except for a few white possession guys, and almost all the top base-stealers now are black. of the guys since 1947 in the majors with at least 500 steals i can only think of Raines, Brock, Henderson, Lofton, and Bonds, although im sure there are more guys, but they are all black. i don't know if its part of culture where black people encourage their children into sports more or if it just genetic but there are way more black people in pro sports as compared to the % they make in the population. just look at the NBA. i know you are gonna to say im racist, cause that's all you do, but i don't think thats a bad thing that there are so many black people, its obviously because they are the best athletes and teams sign the best athletes cause they want to win. its the same way with the basketball team at my school we have a really good coach so we get alot of good players to come that would otherwise go somewhere else and we only have 1 white player on the team who actually gets playing time.back to catchers, piazza's batting average is what seperates him from all the rest. i believe his career average is around .320, which is way better than bench's or even posada's, and you have to remember him from before he got old and got worthless at defense, when he was ok at it like posada is now,
skierdude44
piazza's numbers last year were:
.280 33homers 98 rbis
posadas numbers this year are:
.281 30 homers 101 rbis while playing considerably bettr defense. piazza career numbers r bettr bcuz he has played longer.
October 09, 2003 at 02:08AM View BBCode
ok ME if u wanna use ur school as an example i'll use mine. the fastest guy in our school is white and the fastest guy in my grade is white. as far as athletes r concerned the two best freshman basketball players in my school r white and they r twins. our best freshman receiver and fastest reciever is hispanic and all of our freshman running backs r white. and that is saying something bcuz our offense has a messed up scheme that features two halfbacks one fullback one tight end and one wide reciever. best base stealers in the game today r luis castlilo, ichiro, alfonso soriano, and juan pierre. pierre is black but soriano and castillo r latino and ichiro is japanese. johnny damon is white and fast. back in gibson's era in the majors base stealing wuz a much bigger part of the game. bcuz i dont kno how much of the game in the negro leagues relyed on speed i cant say with certainty that a strong arm wuz his most important characteristic. i doubt anyone here has been to a negro league game so i dont think that anyone could tell me how big a part of the game stealing wuz.piazza's numbers last year were:
.280 33homers 98 rbis
posadas numbers this year are:
.281 30 homers 101 rbis while playing considerably bettr defense. piazza career numbers r bettr bcuz he has played longer.
FuriousGiorge
October 09, 2003 at 02:17AM View BBCode
No, his percentages are better, and those don't reflect playing time. Not many people would argue that Posada has been a better hitter over his career than Piazza, because the numbers are clear and decisive in refuting that notion.
happy
anyway, i just realized, best catcher JIMMY FOXX!
October 10, 2003 at 05:19PM View BBCode
ok, first, they arent "african american" they are black, i am WHITE, not "european american" and asiens are asien, not "asien american" most BLACKS in america have been in america for as long as whites, so why does it have to be pointed out that it is AFRICAN americans we are talking aboutanyway, i just realized, best catcher JIMMY FOXX!
skierdude44
October 10, 2003 at 08:54PM View BBCode
ok happy they r ppl of african heritage living in america. that makes them african american. asians americans r ppl with asian heritage. i am a combo of things such as italian american irish american english american hungarian american and alittle native american along with a few other things.
HollywoodOz
But then, I wouldn't expect someone with your minimal grasp of the English language (asiens? Good god, I could spell that word when I was six) to understand tone and respect.
October 11, 2003 at 09:09PM View BBCode
It's all in how you say it, Happy. If I was to call my friends "black people", they wouldn't have a problem with it. But if I referred to them as "the blacks", well I think I'd be quite deserving of a beatdown.But then, I wouldn't expect someone with your minimal grasp of the English language (asiens? Good god, I could spell that word when I was six) to understand tone and respect.
jigakoeochiro
October 11, 2003 at 09:27PM View BBCode
where is gary carter he definitely deserves to be there.
jigakoeochiro
October 11, 2003 at 09:28PM View BBCode
gibsons hitting achievements: only 700-900 career homers. nothing much.
FuriousGiorge
October 11, 2003 at 10:13PM View BBCode
Gary Carter was a great catcher, and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but best ever? It would be pretty hard to make a case for that.
skierdude44
October 12, 2003 at 12:02AM View BBCode
yea hollywood is rite happy its all in how u say it. if u refer to african americans as them and whites (europeans, ppl of european heritage) as us then u have a problem. i have friends who r black that refer to their friends as "my nigga" no matter wut race and they dont have a problem with that. i call them "my nigga" too and they dont have a problem with that becuz of the context but if it wuz something offensive than there would b a problem.
1tim412
October 12, 2003 at 12:45AM View BBCode
How about Mickey Cochrane? He's got a .320 career BA, and something like 60 triples among other qualifications.Pages: 1 2