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pythons80
1. Quite often (this season especially it seems) you will see a batter square around for a bunt as the pitcher is in his delivery. One thing that has always baffled me is how the bunter will show bunt, but then pull back and take a called strike instead of actually trying to bunt. What's with this, is it just poor hitting? Somehow I doubt it because it seems that many times you will see a batter take a pitch that was an obvious strike, and in doing so miss a perfect opportunity to lay one down. Why show bunt at all if you have no intention of bunting!?
2. The other question I have is in regards to baserunning. Say there are less than 2 outs, and there is a runner of 1B. Said runner is a very good base stealer. Say the player at the plate (who is a very poor runner, ie. Frank Thomas) gives up an easy infield fly. Couldn't the fielder just make it look like he is going to catch the ball and then drop it on purpose in order to force out the runner at 2nd base and keep the poor runner at first instead of him? Outfielders could do this too on shallow fly balls, because baserunners always stay close to the bag if they feel it is going to be an easy out. Am I missing something here, or is there some reason as to why you never see fielders intentionally screw up a fly ball in order to nab the more desired runner? Thanks.
2 Baseball Questions
August 02, 2006 at 07:36AM View BBCode
Like most of you, I have been watching baseball for many years. One of the main reasons I love the game so much, is that it seems every time I watch a game, I am likely to learn something new about it. That being said, there are still a couple of things that I've wondered about. Hopefully some of you may be able to answer these 2 questions:1. Quite often (this season especially it seems) you will see a batter square around for a bunt as the pitcher is in his delivery. One thing that has always baffled me is how the bunter will show bunt, but then pull back and take a called strike instead of actually trying to bunt. What's with this, is it just poor hitting? Somehow I doubt it because it seems that many times you will see a batter take a pitch that was an obvious strike, and in doing so miss a perfect opportunity to lay one down. Why show bunt at all if you have no intention of bunting!?
2. The other question I have is in regards to baserunning. Say there are less than 2 outs, and there is a runner of 1B. Said runner is a very good base stealer. Say the player at the plate (who is a very poor runner, ie. Frank Thomas) gives up an easy infield fly. Couldn't the fielder just make it look like he is going to catch the ball and then drop it on purpose in order to force out the runner at 2nd base and keep the poor runner at first instead of him? Outfielders could do this too on shallow fly balls, because baserunners always stay close to the bag if they feel it is going to be an easy out. Am I missing something here, or is there some reason as to why you never see fielders intentionally screw up a fly ball in order to nab the more desired runner? Thanks.
farfetched
2) They have something called the 'infield fly rule' that guards against this.
August 02, 2006 at 09:35AM View BBCode
1) This is more of a NL thing than AL, because sac bunts are used more often in the league where the pitcher has to hit. If the player shows bunt, it psychologically sets off a reflex in the pitcher and third baseman that they should automatically move toward the plate in order to prepare for the possibility of a bunt in order to move what runner may be on. If the bunt is on, it's going to move the runner anyway, but sometimes, either the hitter isn't that great at bunting, or the intention is to move a runner into scoring position with a steal and allow a swing away. Hell, I dunno whether or not that's what's going on... I'm just setting you up for the obvious answer I would think you knew.2) They have something called the 'infield fly rule' that guards against this.
phen0m
2. ive always wondered this as well...also dropping a soft line drive and turning the double play.....my first guess would be that it is against the unwritten rules of baseball and bad baseball etiquette...
August 02, 2006 at 09:38AM View BBCode
1. usually when a batter does this, he has no intention of bunting hes just sacrificing a pitch to make the 1st and 3rd basemen come in so then it would be easier to slap a base hit past them. And also possibly to get inside a pitchers head (ie a pitcher might try to throw outside the strike zone to make the bunt more difficult, and the hitter just takes an easy ball)2. ive always wondered this as well...also dropping a soft line drive and turning the double play.....my first guess would be that it is against the unwritten rules of baseball and bad baseball etiquette...
phen0m
August 02, 2006 at 10:21AM View BBCode
the question at hand is dropping a ball when there is a fast runner at first and a slow runner at the plate...the infield fly rule only applies when there are runners at 1st AND 2nd or bases loaded, so you cant intentionally drop a ball to try to turn a double or triple play.
FuriousGiorge
I'd guess that the reason people don't do that is like you said, because of some "unwritten rule". Which is stupid. Of course, the situation probably happens exceedingly rarely (where the batter at the plate has such a huge speed differential from the batter at 1st base that it's a no-brainer as to who you want on). I guess another reason you wouldn't tend to see it is because fielders instinctually want to catch the ball if it comes their way. And the marginal gain you would get from exchanging a fast runner for a slow one may not be worth the risk that something would go wrong (say, the ball takes a weird hop when hitting the ground, or the throw to 2nd is off the mark).
As to the first, I don't know. Who cares, bunting is stupid.
[Edited on 8-2-2006 by FuriousGiorge]
August 02, 2006 at 02:18PM View BBCode
Yeah. Lou doesn't know what he's talking about.I'd guess that the reason people don't do that is like you said, because of some "unwritten rule". Which is stupid. Of course, the situation probably happens exceedingly rarely (where the batter at the plate has such a huge speed differential from the batter at 1st base that it's a no-brainer as to who you want on). I guess another reason you wouldn't tend to see it is because fielders instinctually want to catch the ball if it comes their way. And the marginal gain you would get from exchanging a fast runner for a slow one may not be worth the risk that something would go wrong (say, the ball takes a weird hop when hitting the ground, or the throw to 2nd is off the mark).
As to the first, I don't know. Who cares, bunting is stupid.
[Edited on 8-2-2006 by FuriousGiorge]
yankeekid
August 02, 2006 at 02:31PM View BBCode
Yeah, farfetched, infield fly is only with two or more runners on. No reason to go all caps lock.
FuriousGiorge
August 02, 2006 at 02:44PM View BBCode
That's all you posted to say? That he was wrong? Do you have any other opinions, thoughts, insights? Did you at least bring baked goods?
whiskybear
I've got to believe this is it. Etiquette shouldn't even be a factor---it's simply smart baseball to take the sure out over letting a ball drop, the net gain of which would be to merely replace a fast runner with a slow one.
Of course, in the days of Albert Belle the proper strategy would be to drop the ball and turn the double play, since Belle would be halfway to the dugout before he realized what was going on.
August 02, 2006 at 02:49PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
And the marginal gain you would get from exchanging a fast runner for a slow one may not be worth the risk that something would go wrong (say, the ball takes a weird hop when hitting the ground, or the throw to 2nd is off the mark).
I've got to believe this is it. Etiquette shouldn't even be a factor---it's simply smart baseball to take the sure out over letting a ball drop, the net gain of which would be to merely replace a fast runner with a slow one.
Of course, in the days of Albert Belle the proper strategy would be to drop the ball and turn the double play, since Belle would be halfway to the dugout before he realized what was going on.
tysonlowery
I've seen Omar Vizquel miss a infield fly rule popup on purpose before. By rule, the runners can advance at their own risk and the batter is out. Nobody was confused enough to try to run, but I'm surprised more guys don't miss them on purpose to see what the runners will do.
August 02, 2006 at 03:17PM View BBCode
I want to say I've seen the Indians try to pull off #2 before, maybe Belliard or Roberto Alomar with a soft line drive. I don't think there is an unwritten rule about it. I think its one of those things that if you screw it up, you look like an idiot for trying it.I've seen Omar Vizquel miss a infield fly rule popup on purpose before. By rule, the runners can advance at their own risk and the batter is out. Nobody was confused enough to try to run, but I'm surprised more guys don't miss them on purpose to see what the runners will do.
FuriousGiorge
Maybe not, but you can be damn sure that if and when someone tries this, the opposing manager/team/fans will make a big fat stink about what a "bush league" play it is, and we will get to hear all the commentaries about the "unwritten rules of baseball" that don't actually exist.
August 02, 2006 at 04:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
Etiquette shouldn't even be a factor
Maybe not, but you can be damn sure that if and when someone tries this, the opposing manager/team/fans will make a big fat stink about what a "bush league" play it is, and we will get to hear all the commentaries about the "unwritten rules of baseball" that don't actually exist.
whiskybear
August 02, 2006 at 04:03PM View BBCode
When it happens, can we please make sure that Bob Brenly is somehow involved?
TimSchere
#1b - the pitcher has defensive responsibilities, and might throw a worse pitch if he's trying to get into position. It might be a take-all-the-way thing, they're just trying to get the pitcher to throw a ball by faking the bunt.
August 02, 2006 at 04:18PM View BBCode
#1a - some guys will try to set up a pitcher by showing bunt. If you thought a guy was trying to bunt, you would generally throw a high fastball, which is tough to bunt properly, but pretty easy to hit.#1b - the pitcher has defensive responsibilities, and might throw a worse pitch if he's trying to get into position. It might be a take-all-the-way thing, they're just trying to get the pitcher to throw a ball by faking the bunt.
FuriousGiorge
Of course. It wouldn't be a violation of the unwritten rules of baseball without him. And his mustache.
August 02, 2006 at 04:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
When it happens, can we please make sure that Bob Brenly is somehow involved?
Of course. It wouldn't be a violation of the unwritten rules of baseball without him. And his mustache.
scaffdog
[quote][i]Originally posted by whiskybear[/i]
When it happens, can we please make sure that Bob Brenly is somehow involved? [/quote]
Of course. It wouldn't be a violation of the unwritten rules of baseball without him. And his mustache. [/quote]
[img]http://www.funmansion.com/images/mustache_championship_00.jpg[/img]
What Mustache
August 03, 2006 at 08:05PM View formatted
You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
[quote][i]Originally posted by FuriousGiorge[/i]
[quote][i]Originally posted by whiskybear[/i]
When it happens, can we please make sure that Bob Brenly is somehow involved? [/quote]
Of course. It wouldn't be a violation of the unwritten rules of baseball without him. And his mustache. [/quote]
[img]http://www.funmansion.com/images/mustache_championship_00.jpg[/img]
What Mustache
ScooterPie
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp
So if it's a routine catch, you can't just knock the ball down to get the force and exchange Kenny Lofton for Kenny Singleton. You can, of course, let the ball fall -- subject to the bad-hop and bad-karma perils already mentioned above. (Though frankly, I agree that major-leaguers don't worry about upsetting their opponent's delicate sensibilities. They'd rather win the ballgame.)
scooter
[Edited on 8/5/2006 by ScooterPie]
August 05, 2006 at 04:50AM View BBCode
As far as #2 goes, check out Rule 6.05(l):A batter is out when ... An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;
APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/batter_6.jsp
So if it's a routine catch, you can't just knock the ball down to get the force and exchange Kenny Lofton for Kenny Singleton. You can, of course, let the ball fall -- subject to the bad-hop and bad-karma perils already mentioned above. (Though frankly, I agree that major-leaguers don't worry about upsetting their opponent's delicate sensibilities. They'd rather win the ballgame.)
scooter
[Edited on 8/5/2006 by ScooterPie]
Guvner
August 05, 2006 at 01:00PM View BBCode
Showing bunt - often the batting team's manager wants to see what rotation the defense will put on that play. So, if the batter bunts later in the at-bat, they may lay it down to one side or the other based on what they saw on the fake. It also is a good way to get into the head of the pitcher.
scaffdog
August 09, 2006 at 09:21PM View BBCode
I still dont believe that it really gets into the head of the pitcher. He's read enough scouting reports to know who the potential bunters on the team are...Pages: 1