 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Sim Forums » Baseball Enhancements » an idea about drafting
lurch63
I think Jizzy's recent suggestion of more managing preferences are right on target. Give the GM more options to tinker with and control. Same goes for the draft. I would like to be able to scout the next crop of players while the season is in progress. Post the whole list of cards and let us figure out who would best fit the scheme of the team. I think that would help bad teams keep interested while they loose 90+ games.
At the end of the season, submit a wish list in order of preference that you would like to draft and then see how the picks shake out. I think this would be an easy and effective way of giving players more control their destiny, making the game more varied and keeping involvement during the slow parts of the season.
Speeding up the play is an interesting thought, though anything beyond 6 games a day would be giving up too much control to ABE. Right now, My best player has an "F" rating in health and I have to manage him carefully every 3rd game.
Just some thoughts...
Lurch63
an idea about drafting
November 24, 2002 at 05:16PM View BBCode
I have an idea about drafting that also may help keep newbies interested with bad teams. It seems to me that teams losing interest or hope is a real problem. It cuts down trading posibilities ( I think the lifeblood of this site) and the competitive balance of the league (sorta resembles the real thing, huh?).I think Jizzy's recent suggestion of more managing preferences are right on target. Give the GM more options to tinker with and control. Same goes for the draft. I would like to be able to scout the next crop of players while the season is in progress. Post the whole list of cards and let us figure out who would best fit the scheme of the team. I think that would help bad teams keep interested while they loose 90+ games.
At the end of the season, submit a wish list in order of preference that you would like to draft and then see how the picks shake out. I think this would be an easy and effective way of giving players more control their destiny, making the game more varied and keeping involvement during the slow parts of the season.
Speeding up the play is an interesting thought, though anything beyond 6 games a day would be giving up too much control to ABE. Right now, My best player has an "F" rating in health and I have to manage him carefully every 3rd game.
Just some thoughts...
Lurch63
Moose
November 24, 2002 at 06:46PM View BBCode
I agree completely about being able to scout the actual individual players for the draft. It definitely would add interest and makes things more realistic. Of course there are those who might complain of lack of time to review each player in the draft. Still, I think those that put in a little effort should be rewarded. It can't be that hard to take some time to skim through some prospects, especially if they are available to scout while the season is going on. I think I've read about being able to scout for the draft before so this may be redundant but I think it would be wise to make this a top priority.
jer2911
November 24, 2002 at 10:45PM View BBCode
That is a good idea, but what if your team really needs a, 3B, for example. Then you would rate the top 3 or 4 3B for the draft, buut you really don't want all 3 or 4 of them. There would need to be a failsafe mechanism that says, if #1 pick is drafted, don't draft #2, #3, and #4, but instead draft the next best available SS. I think a better solution (for now) would be one that was posted earlier, that would allow you not only to say what you want most in a player with the current points system, (which really is a sort of scouting), but that you want to draft a 3B in the 1st round, and either a SS or SP in round 2, then the other that you didn't pick in round 3, and in round 4 and 5 just pick the best available P, and position player.
lurch63
November 25, 2002 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Actually, that's an easy one. Just continue to use the same system in place. In the draft settings, you already pick what postions player you need...2 SPs, 1 OF, 1 INF, etc.. When that need is met, you just move on to the next need on the list. The system is already in place, I just think it needs more GM involvement. Scouting is way to do it.
tysok
I could not be remembering right, and it really doesn't matter. :) The control Jer2911 is talking about does need to be there... as for scouting, I'm not sure the work it would take would be worth the benefit.
November 25, 2002 at 04:07AM View BBCode
Actually, if I'm not mistaken by my memory of earlier posts, the current system looks at your prefs.... if you selected 2 in any position, 1 3B 1 SP and 1 RP you may draft a SS first, then a LF... then it would look at the rest of the 3B, SP, and RP and pick the best (say a 3B)... then it would look at the rest of the SP and RP and pick the better... etc.I could not be remembering right, and it really doesn't matter. :) The control Jer2911 is talking about does need to be there... as for scouting, I'm not sure the work it would take would be worth the benefit.
jer2911
November 25, 2002 at 04:50AM View BBCode
Tysok, you are absolutely right. That is the problem with the current system. If you do badly need a player a a certain position, you may end up drafting him 5th, and the only way to prevent that is to say you want 5 3B, so you can be sure to get a decent one. Then you are left with 4 extra guys that you have no use for, and there is no guarantee you will be able to trade the others away for the other positions you need.
buster77
November 26, 2002 at 03:26PM View BBCode
I think all the problems in all the draft would be solved by allowing you to specify the round that you wish to draft a specific position, and then have the Best Available (based on the way you allocated points) selected for you. This allows you to customize your team (if you want good pitching, you grab it early, and so forth) while also keeping the present "scouting system" in place (which I like) and alleviating the need for the universe of players to be created ahead of time (I know when I play Fantasy Baseball, I am a bit overwhelmed by the ranking lists, and I know who those guys ARE). This would get rid of the strategies Well Rounded and Totally Balanced, ABE would just pick Best Available within the parameters you specified. Gives the managers more control without scrapping the present system. Any thoughts?
jer2911
You really need a 3B, and you sort of need a CF and SP, but not as badly. SO you specify to draft the 3B in round 1, CF in round 2, and SP in round three, then pick the best available for the last two rounds. Now what if there aren't any decent 3B in the draft? Should you still draft a 3B in the first round if he is horrible and you would have no use for him? Maybe, but there also happens to be a killer 2B available, and if you were to get that 2B, maybe you could trade him for a 3B that is already in the league. OR, if there was a great SP available, you would probably want to draft him and then weigh your options of trading vs. keeping him.
Anyway, my point is that there should be some sort of way to weight how badly you want each position, and factor that into the draft as well. (Does this make sense? Because if it doesn't please say so, and I'll try to make it more clear.)
November 26, 2002 at 04:33PM View formatted
You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
I agree, and that is something that FiveToolPlayer has been campaigning for as well. But consider this scenario:
You really need a 3B, and you sort of need a CF and SP, but not as badly. SO you specify to draft the 3B in round 1, CF in round 2, and SP in round three, then pick the best available for the last two rounds. Now what if there aren't any decent 3B in the draft? Should you still draft a 3B in the first round if he is horrible and you would have no use for him? Maybe, but there also happens to be a killer 2B available, and if you were to get that 2B, maybe you could trade him for a 3B that is already in the league. OR, if there was a great SP available, you would probably want to draft him and then weigh your options of trading vs. keeping him.
Anyway, my point is that there should be some sort of way to weight how badly you want each position, and factor that into the draft as well. (Does this make sense? Because if it doesn't please say so, and I'll try to make it more clear.)
FiveToolPlayer
Here's a question I've always wondered though. Is the player pool set before the draft occurs or does ABE create players as the draft goes along? Does that make sense?
November 26, 2002 at 04:43PM View BBCode
This makes complete sense and I agree. Basically you are saying that specifying a particular position in each round should be optional. There are always drafts where you need a specific position no matter what and there are drafts where you sort of need positions but nothing desperately so you wouldn't really care when you drafted what position. All I know is that my beta league team has attempted to draft a 1B for the past 5 or 6 seasons and I just can't get one. I even tried drafting all 1Bs this last time and it must have been a weak draft for the position as I got a C overall guy in round 1.Here's a question I've always wondered though. Is the player pool set before the draft occurs or does ABE create players as the draft goes along? Does that make sense?
lurch63
November 26, 2002 at 05:15PM View BBCode
This is pretty cool. I think a lot of good ideas are flying around here. However, I still like the idea of being able to scout the players (its only 5 rounds worth) for two main reasons...first, it may help me make decisions on how I'm going to st my prefs. Makes no sense to look for a catcher in the draft if I got no shot at getting one, therefore I may push harder to trade for one. Reason #2...it gives GMs with bad teams something to do while the season slips away from them. Its hard to keep interested if you know that no matter what you do, your team is going to suck. At least thiswould keep them going to the site and help them plan for a better team. Maybe even work out a trade for a future draft pick...
jer2911
As far as your question goes FiveTool, I've wondered the same sort of thing myself. I kind of imagined the player pool was created before, and figured (or guessed, becuase it seems to make sense that it would work this way) that it was created based on the overall ratings owners placed in each catagory. (Like they were added up and used as an average to decided how many 1Bs to create, and whether to weight them towards power vs R, or whatever, to make the most owners happy. Does that make sense?)
November 26, 2002 at 05:55PM View BBCode
I like the point about it keeping owners interested. But it may also be a big let down if they don't get who they wanted and they have planned their entire team around it.As far as your question goes FiveTool, I've wondered the same sort of thing myself. I kind of imagined the player pool was created before, and figured (or guessed, becuase it seems to make sense that it would work this way) that it was created based on the overall ratings owners placed in each catagory. (Like they were added up and used as an average to decided how many 1Bs to create, and whether to weight them towards power vs R, or whatever, to make the most owners happy. Does that make sense?)
buster77
And, Jer, I think you are saying that it would be nice to have a position weight added to the draft setting for a specified pick (ie. first pick, 2nd pick) such as 60% 3B, 40% 2B, so that if the pick is between a horrible 3B and a great 2B, you will get the 2B? Extrapolating out, this could be a problem if all the 2Bs are not good either, but you could, for example give all positions other than 3B a 12% weight and 3B a 16% weight, in effect saying get me a 3B OR the best of the rest (if there are no good 3Bs). That sounds like a good idea.
November 26, 2002 at 06:01PM View BBCode
I understand what you are asking, Five Tool, and I assume (but don't know for sure) that the pool of players is created as a whole first (this gives you control over how many A+ players, A players, etc. there are). I'm not sure it would be possible to use the draft ratings otherwise. However, Bob may be able to answer that one better, and Tyson would surely know. I am a programmer also, and I just don't see how you could do it on the fly and still be fair. BTW, I also assume that there is another, seperate program that does this and loads the databases. Since ABE stands for Artificial Baseball Engine it would make more sense to have ABE only run the games. This would also allow changes to other parts of the game as a whole not to affect ABE and vice versa. Just my guess!And, Jer, I think you are saying that it would be nice to have a position weight added to the draft setting for a specified pick (ie. first pick, 2nd pick) such as 60% 3B, 40% 2B, so that if the pick is between a horrible 3B and a great 2B, you will get the 2B? Extrapolating out, this could be a problem if all the 2Bs are not good either, but you could, for example give all positions other than 3B a 12% weight and 3B a 16% weight, in effect saying get me a 3B OR the best of the rest (if there are no good 3Bs). That sounds like a good idea.
jer2911
November 26, 2002 at 07:24PM View BBCode
Right, this would fall under the best available catagory, or best infeilder catagory.
CHackWilson
A live draft
December 04, 2002 at 09:38PM View BBCode
would having a live draft be something that is a possibliity? I think that would be the best solution. Althought i do not know how hard that would be
khakurat
December 05, 2002 at 05:15AM View BBCode
i sure wouldn't want to try to coordinate one, or deal with the people who couldn't get on-line at the time.
jer2911
The only problem I can see is minor, (aside from any programming difficulties that I can't see), and it is that new GMs coming into an old league would have less of a say (well actually no say) in their amateur draft picks. These draft picks would still be in the talent pool for the expansion draft though.
Overall it sounds like a good idea to me. You can alwas be sure to get exactly what you want from what is available, and also it would introduce another factor into the game: The question, should I draft the pretty good 3B guy that I really need, or should I go with that awesome CF and hope to trade?
December 05, 2002 at 04:30PM View BBCode
To make a live draft fair, five rounds could take as long as five days, if not more. But, I just had an idea. What if the draft happened in the later/middle months, when the season starts getting old for some teams? That could keep them interested. Especially if you could research the players before the draft. Even with this though, there should still be a way to set preferences to draft automatically for someone who doesn't have time to do the research, or just doesn't want to. Also, there might be some sort of deadline that could be implemented that says, "If you don't draft in X amount of hours, you pick automatically reverts to your preferences." This would also line Sim Dynasty up more with MLB, whose amateur draft takes place in June (or was it July?). Though that is probably more because it is after school gets out, than because the season starts to get boring.The only problem I can see is minor, (aside from any programming difficulties that I can't see), and it is that new GMs coming into an old league would have less of a say (well actually no say) in their amateur draft picks. These draft picks would still be in the talent pool for the expansion draft though.
Overall it sounds like a good idea to me. You can alwas be sure to get exactly what you want from what is available, and also it would introduce another factor into the game: The question, should I draft the pretty good 3B guy that I really need, or should I go with that awesome CF and hope to trade?
tysok
For instance, I've noticed that my team has up years and down years. 1950 almost everyone hit like they should, in 1951 they were pathetic, in 1952 they all did what they should again, now in 1953 everyone seems to be pathetic again....
So say I've got a 35 year old 3B that's not doing so well on this, his down year. I have faith he's gonna be good next year, and he shouldn't retire. So a draft pre-offseason and I wouldn't bother getting a replacement 3B for him, in favor of getting some better "all around" talent. So when the offseason runs he may have done so poorly this season that ABE decides to retire him... uh oh, I have no 3B now.
I do think the draft needs work, but personally there are far greater concerns (like talent distribution, fundemental misplays, and player rankings) that should really be worked on before this. The draft as it is now isn't really all that unfair, it's a challenge (that some have done quite well at) as to how you set the preferences. I would have to say that some other issues need to be worked out first, in order for the "vision" of the game to really take shape, before bothering to tinker with the draft... which is really the most level surface (as in all teams are "equal as they should be") in the game.
December 05, 2002 at 06:33PM View BBCode
One thing that is good about the amateur draft taking place after the offseason runs is that it gives you a better look at the team you now have.For instance, I've noticed that my team has up years and down years. 1950 almost everyone hit like they should, in 1951 they were pathetic, in 1952 they all did what they should again, now in 1953 everyone seems to be pathetic again....
So say I've got a 35 year old 3B that's not doing so well on this, his down year. I have faith he's gonna be good next year, and he shouldn't retire. So a draft pre-offseason and I wouldn't bother getting a replacement 3B for him, in favor of getting some better "all around" talent. So when the offseason runs he may have done so poorly this season that ABE decides to retire him... uh oh, I have no 3B now.
I do think the draft needs work, but personally there are far greater concerns (like talent distribution, fundemental misplays, and player rankings) that should really be worked on before this. The draft as it is now isn't really all that unfair, it's a challenge (that some have done quite well at) as to how you set the preferences. I would have to say that some other issues need to be worked out first, in order for the "vision" of the game to really take shape, before bothering to tinker with the draft... which is really the most level surface (as in all teams are "equal as they should be") in the game.
khakurat
i have to disagree with tysok about the importance of the draft though. although what we're discussing may not be the most important aspect. the draft has a huge impact on talent distribution, as well as over-all talent level of any league. it is certainly not the only factor, but it does impact the game across the board.
December 06, 2002 at 01:37AM View BBCode
well brad, i that's a pretty innovative idea. while i think doing research on an initial draft would be a real pain and probably put a lot of people off, doing amatuer drafts this way makes a lot of sense. as you pointed out though, it would be tough on new owners and, as tysok said off-season surpises could leave you flat-footed, although i can't see waiting until a guy retires to pick up a replacement. certainly having more control of the draft would help all the owners out, especially those trying to rebuild.i have to disagree with tysok about the importance of the draft though. although what we're discussing may not be the most important aspect. the draft has a huge impact on talent distribution, as well as over-all talent level of any league. it is certainly not the only factor, but it does impact the game across the board.
jer2911
December 06, 2002 at 04:25PM View BBCode
khkurat, I would disagree with you and agree with tysok about the importance of the draft, because what I think he is trying to say is that the draft works pretty well right now, and that there are other things that should be fixed first. That's why it's cool to have a message board like this, so that the players (ermm... owners), can discuss possible improvements for the game and voice their opinion about how important each of them think that each one is. Then Tyson can decide to take all of the information and decide what to work on.
tysok
For instance, if you plave 100 on Power vs Righties then you will get the best person with Power vs Righties...
Also, hopefully one wouldn't wait until a guy retires in order to get his replacement. :) I do have an example though... I thought I had a good chance at contending this season so I traded off a lot of younger talent to make one major run "for the whole works"... I'm left with only 2 3B, both 33 years old. Smart or not, I made the choice knowing that these guys should continue to be good for another couple years, so I have some time... but this is a down year for St. Louis and we all suck. :) The problem is possible... but only if you mortgage your future purposefully. :)
December 06, 2002 at 05:21PM View BBCode
I agree that the draft is an important factor in the game. But trying to "fix" the draft isn't all that important *right now*. Jer is right, it works rather well now, while a lot of other things have more "pressing" problems.For instance, if you plave 100 on Power vs Righties then you will get the best person with Power vs Righties...
Also, hopefully one wouldn't wait until a guy retires in order to get his replacement. :) I do have an example though... I thought I had a good chance at contending this season so I traded off a lot of younger talent to make one major run "for the whole works"... I'm left with only 2 3B, both 33 years old. Smart or not, I made the choice knowing that these guys should continue to be good for another couple years, so I have some time... but this is a down year for St. Louis and we all suck. :) The problem is possible... but only if you mortgage your future purposefully. :)
lurch63
The idea is really pretty simple without rocking the system. You spend some time after the halfway part of the season scouting all the players available in the draft. You make a list of 32 players (16 teams, 2 rounds) in order of preference you would like to draft. This would cover the first 2 rounds. When your draft position comes up, ABE takes the player available that is ranked highest on your list. The model is simple, its based on the real thing. That's exactly how real GM's do it.
Then, after round 2, let ABE do what he usually does and fill up the remaining 3 rounds. This will ensure that you will get a player you want, get a feel for the direction of the league talent, keep struggling players involved and give the player a closer experience to the real thing while not really upseting the system Tyson has developed.
I guess this really hinges on the question that was brought up earlier in the thread on whether ABE or Tyson creates the players to be drafted before or during the draft.
On a whole guys, this is really a pretty cool game, Tyson is doing a great job simulating the game of baseball. I was just trying find a way to enhance on of the GM/Coach's biggest responsibilites...scouting talent.
Later,
Lurch63
December 06, 2002 at 09:30PM View BBCode
Ahhhmm, well, I started this whole mess and I think its kinda funny that it has come full circle. From the start, I said that I thought the draft worked pretty well and that it didn't need "fixing"...just a way to make it more "involving" for the player. Scouting players available to draft was one and creating a "wish list" to draft from was another.The idea is really pretty simple without rocking the system. You spend some time after the halfway part of the season scouting all the players available in the draft. You make a list of 32 players (16 teams, 2 rounds) in order of preference you would like to draft. This would cover the first 2 rounds. When your draft position comes up, ABE takes the player available that is ranked highest on your list. The model is simple, its based on the real thing. That's exactly how real GM's do it.
Then, after round 2, let ABE do what he usually does and fill up the remaining 3 rounds. This will ensure that you will get a player you want, get a feel for the direction of the league talent, keep struggling players involved and give the player a closer experience to the real thing while not really upseting the system Tyson has developed.
I guess this really hinges on the question that was brought up earlier in the thread on whether ABE or Tyson creates the players to be drafted before or during the draft.
On a whole guys, this is really a pretty cool game, Tyson is doing a great job simulating the game of baseball. I was just trying find a way to enhance on of the GM/Coach's biggest responsibilites...scouting talent.
Later,
Lurch63
chamberlien
drafting
December 26, 2002 at 09:18PM View BBCode
Actually, I would like to find a way for us to do live drafting. Gives the manager all the control he needs to draft the kind of team he wants.
celamantia
--Chris
December 26, 2002 at 09:47PM View BBCode
What would be fairly easy to do is set up draft preferences just like we do now. Then , a couple of days before the actual draft, the players are generated and a default draft order for your team is set up based on those preferences. Then, you could go in and tinker with the preferred draft order yourself.--Chris
Pages: 1