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Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Shanahan fired!
whiskybear
January 02, 2009 at 06:01AM View BBCode
Even if that were his only accomplishment in Denver, must it not also be said that quality line play, particularly on the offensive side, is one of the most important factors to the success of an NFL team? I mean, isn't this sort of like saying that Patton was a shitty general, but boy he sure could command a brigade of tanks?
whiskybear
January 02, 2009 at 06:05AM View BBCode
(Also, your admission about the offensive line is a bit hilarious given the conventional wisdom that the strength of Denver's line is/was built upon their use of the illegal chop block.)
drew
January 02, 2009 at 06:11AM View BBCode
Yes, what Shanahan would do if he was a real genius is treat this decision like he was playing NCAA '08 on the Playstation where after you get too good at it, in order to make it a challenge, you take some borderline division II team in the Western Athletic Conference and build them into a winner. But instead he will shows his true colors and take a job with a team and just run up the score every game and keep on having players win the heisman trophy and it will be really boring. What a fraud.
FuriousGiorge
He is the best coach. In the history. Of your team. Which I have to emphasize. With periods. And it's. Exhausting.
January 02, 2009 at 06:24AM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
He was responsible in so much as he was the head coach/GM/VP of football operations.
He is the best coach. In the history. Of your team. Which I have to emphasize. With periods. And it's. Exhausting.
khazim
A history. that's not. even 50. years old. and the first. seventeen. years. can be. written off.
When compared. with giants like. Lombardi. Walsh. Big Tuna. he doesn't compare. Shanahan is. a good coach. not a. great coach.
January 02, 2009 at 01:39PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by khazim
He was responsible in so much as he was the head coach/GM/VP of football operations.
He is the best coach. In the history. Of your team. Which I have to emphasize. With periods. And it's. Exhausting.
A history. that's not. even 50. years old. and the first. seventeen. years. can be. written off.
When compared. with giants like. Lombardi. Walsh. Big Tuna. he doesn't compare. Shanahan is. a good coach. not a. great coach.
sycophantman
January 02, 2009 at 03:19PM View BBCode
I think the real problem is you taking out your frustrations on Shanahan. You can't win every year, not in the NFL, yet your club was fairly good most of the time. In the NFL that is really something. Fact is, the Broncos are very unlikely to find a better coach, aren't they? Perhaps the players tuned him out, but that is just code for having too many uncoachable assholes in the locker room. Shanahan deserves more credit than you are willing to give him, khazim.
khazim
most of the time? try half the time. The very definition of average.
As for the uncoachable assholes, the responsibility for that falls squarely on the GM.. oh wait. That would have been Shanahan. Since winning two Superbowls, his playoff record is 1-4. That's 1-4.
January 02, 2009 at 03:57PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
I think the real problem is you taking out your frustrations on Shanahan. You can't win every year, not in the NFL, yet your club was fairly good most of the time. In the NFL that is really something. Fact is, the Broncos are very unlikely to find a better coach, aren't they? Perhaps the players tuned him out, but that is just code for having too many uncoachable assholes in the locker room. Shanahan deserves more credit than you are willing to give him, khazim.
most of the time? try half the time. The very definition of average.
As for the uncoachable assholes, the responsibility for that falls squarely on the GM.. oh wait. That would have been Shanahan. Since winning two Superbowls, his playoff record is 1-4. That's 1-4.
whiskybear
Your position is irrational and objectively wrong.
[Edited on 1-2-2009 by whiskybear]
January 02, 2009 at 04:12PM View BBCode
Shanahan's record with the Broncos was 138-86. His teams won 10 or more games seven times. Four times they won 12 or more. On the flipside, they finished under .500 just twice -- 6-10 in 1999 and 7-9 in 2007.Your position is irrational and objectively wrong.
[Edited on 1-2-2009 by whiskybear]
thatrogue
Shanahan had a great eye for offensive talent throughout the years as well. Look at the RB and WR finds the Broncos have had under him. Look at the O-linemen. The guy is terrific at finding unheralded offensive pieces and using them effectively, through designing plays and playcalling that fit the team's talents.
Where Mike failed was on defense. He did not have an eye for defensive talent, from hiring coaches to drafting and trading for players. Secondarily, he failed by having too many of his draft picks turn out to be mediocre. He found some real gems but he certainly drafted some duds as well.
I, for one, was shocked that Mike was let go. I wish his ego had allowed him to realize that Bowlen was right...that he did need a new DC who could also take the lead on defensive personnel decisions. Shanahan the coach is a great coach. However, Shanahan the GM was sub-par, which ultimately did him in.
I wish him success wherever he winds up (within reason). Unfortunately, the Broncos will have a hard time replacing his skills.
[Edited on 1-2-2009 by thatrogue]
January 02, 2009 at 04:23PM View BBCode
Sorry Khazim, you are way off here. Shanahan the coach was incredible. The cut blocking schemes, the misdirection bootlegs, the disguised formations...that's all Mike. He was a great OC and a great coach. Kubiak is good because of his years working under Shanahan...not the other way around.Shanahan had a great eye for offensive talent throughout the years as well. Look at the RB and WR finds the Broncos have had under him. Look at the O-linemen. The guy is terrific at finding unheralded offensive pieces and using them effectively, through designing plays and playcalling that fit the team's talents.
Where Mike failed was on defense. He did not have an eye for defensive talent, from hiring coaches to drafting and trading for players. Secondarily, he failed by having too many of his draft picks turn out to be mediocre. He found some real gems but he certainly drafted some duds as well.
I, for one, was shocked that Mike was let go. I wish his ego had allowed him to realize that Bowlen was right...that he did need a new DC who could also take the lead on defensive personnel decisions. Shanahan the coach is a great coach. However, Shanahan the GM was sub-par, which ultimately did him in.
I wish him success wherever he winds up (within reason). Unfortunately, the Broncos will have a hard time replacing his skills.
[Edited on 1-2-2009 by thatrogue]
sycophantman
This one is my favorite.
January 02, 2009 at 04:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Since winning two Superbowls, his playoff record is 1-4. That's 1-4.
This one is my favorite.
Possibly posted by khazim, someday in the near future
If you take away those back to back Academy Awards Tom Hanks won in the mid-90's, you find that he was since nominated for an award only twice.
Therefore, Tom Hanks is a terrible, terrible actor, so bad in fact that the current unrest in the Middle East can easily be laid at his terribly acting feet.
khazim
it's going to take more than one person to replace Shanahan, but that happens when you're basically running everything.
January 02, 2009 at 05:06PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
Sorry Khazim, you are way off here. Shanahan the coach was incredible. The cut blocking schemes, the misdirection bootlegs, the disguised formations...that's all Mike. He was a great OC and a great coach. Kubiak is good because of his years working under Shanahan...not the other way around.
Shanahan had a great eye for offensive talent throughout the years as well. Look at the RB and WR finds the Broncos have had under him. Look at the O-linemen. The guy is terrific at finding unheralded offensive pieces and using them effectively, through designing plays and playcalling that fit the team's talents.
Where Mike failed was on defense. He did not have an eye for defensive talent, from hiring coaches to drafting and trading for players. Secondarily, he failed by having too many of his draft picks turn out to be mediocre. He found some real gems but he certainly drafted some duds as well.
I, for one, was shocked that Mike was let go. I wish his ego had allowed him to realize that Bowlen was right...that he did need a new DC who could also take the lead on defensive personnel decisions. Shanahan the coach is a great coach. However, Shanahan the GM was sub-par, which ultimately did him in.
I wish him success wherever he winds up (within reason). Unfortunately, the Broncos will have a hard time replacing his skills.
[Edited on 1-2-2009 by thatrogue]
it's going to take more than one person to replace Shanahan, but that happens when you're basically running everything.
khazim
sycophant, please tell your boss after getting a top end review that he shouldn't expect anything from you until the year 2020 and tell me how that works out for you.
Good lord. Shanahan managed to cobble together a good third of a team (the offense), but crapped out on both special teams (their kick coverage has been crap for YEARS) and defense.
The team's record the past three seasons is 24-24. The definition of average.
January 02, 2009 at 05:09PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
Originally posted by khazim
Since winning two Superbowls, his playoff record is 1-4. That's 1-4.
This one is my favorite.
Possibly posted by khazim, someday in the near future
If you take away those back to back Academy Awards Tom Hanks won in the mid-90's, you find that he was since nominated for an award only twice.
Therefore, Tom Hanks is a terrible, terrible actor, so bad in fact that the current unrest in the Middle East can easily be laid at his terribly acting feet.
sycophant, please tell your boss after getting a top end review that he shouldn't expect anything from you until the year 2020 and tell me how that works out for you.
Good lord. Shanahan managed to cobble together a good third of a team (the offense), but crapped out on both special teams (their kick coverage has been crap for YEARS) and defense.
The team's record the past three seasons is 24-24. The definition of average.
whiskybear
January 02, 2009 at 05:13PM View BBCode
Special teams: Exactly as important as offense and defense.
sycophantman
The fact is that he did a great job overall, and just looking at the last three years alone doesn't erase the several years that came before it. I don't think anyone outside of Denver actually thought Shanahan wouldn't turn it around with a little more time.
January 02, 2009 at 05:28PM View BBCode
Why are you harping on the last three years so much? His entire body of work speaks rather highly of him. Besides that, your comparison of getting a great performance review and coasting for years is hardly very apt. I suppose it is the vogue point being made on talk radio since you go to it so very often.The fact is that he did a great job overall, and just looking at the last three years alone doesn't erase the several years that came before it. I don't think anyone outside of Denver actually thought Shanahan wouldn't turn it around with a little more time.
FuriousGiorge
January 02, 2009 at 05:39PM View BBCode
I am judging all Denver fans by this guy. They are terrible, terrible fans, and deserve to have all of their teams move to Saskatchewan.
thatrogue
January 02, 2009 at 06:09PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorgeI know you are making a point...but don't let me have to judge all Redskins fans using happy as the standard.
I am judging all Denver fans by this guy. They are terrible, terrible fans, and deserve to have all of their teams move to Saskatchewan.
FuriousGiorge
January 02, 2009 at 06:22PM View BBCode
The difference is, you have other examples here. Me, I don't think I've ever met a Denver Broncos fan before, so this is my standard. I hear Regina's nice this time of year (just kidding, it sucks).
Cubsfan13
So. Awesome.
(I won the national championship with Florida Atlantic, I've earned the right to beat Baylor 84-3! sadface)
January 02, 2009 at 06:59PM View BBCode
Originally posted by drew
Yes, what Shanahan would do if he was a real genius is treat this decision like he was playing NCAA '08 on the Playstation where after you get too good at it, in order to make it a challenge, you take some borderline division II team in the Western Athletic Conference and build them into a winner. But instead he will shows his true colors and take a job with a team and just run up the score every game and keep on having players win the heisman trophy and it will be really boring. What a fraud.
So. Awesome.
(I won the national championship with Florida Atlantic, I've earned the right to beat Baylor 84-3! sadface)
dirtdevil
lombardi= 2 super bowl wins
parcells= 2 super bowl wins
shanahan= 2 super bowl wins.
looks like he compares pretty well to me. or did you mean 'giants' as in weight?
January 02, 2009 at 07:42PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by khazim
He was responsible in so much as he was the head coach/GM/VP of football operations.
He is the best coach. In the history. Of your team. Which I have to emphasize. With periods. And it's. Exhausting.
A history. that's not. even 50. years old. and the first. seventeen. years. can be. written off.
When compared. with giants like. Lombardi. Walsh. Big Tuna. he doesn't compare. Shanahan is. a good coach. not a. great coach.
lombardi= 2 super bowl wins
parcells= 2 super bowl wins
shanahan= 2 super bowl wins.
looks like he compares pretty well to me. or did you mean 'giants' as in weight?
khazim
Then the fans outside of Denver don't know what they're talking about. Shanahan never demonstrated any ability to draft defensive talent, specifically D-Line talent, and there was never the focus on Kick and Punt coverage that there should have been.
January 02, 2009 at 09:50PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
Why are you harping on the last three years so much? His entire body of work speaks rather highly of him. Besides that, your comparison of getting a great performance review and coasting for years is hardly very apt. I suppose it is the vogue point being made on talk radio since you go to it so very often.
The fact is that he did a great job overall, and just looking at the last three years alone doesn't erase the several years that came before it. I don't think anyone outside of Denver actually thought Shanahan wouldn't turn it around with a little more time.
Then the fans outside of Denver don't know what they're talking about. Shanahan never demonstrated any ability to draft defensive talent, specifically D-Line talent, and there was never the focus on Kick and Punt coverage that there should have been.
thatrogue
January 02, 2009 at 10:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorgeSo what am I...chopped liver?
The difference is, you have other examples here. Me, I don't think I've ever met a Denver Broncos fan before, so this is my standard. I hear Regina's nice this time of year (just kidding, it sucks).
khazim
Parcells: 11-8 postseason record, 3 conference championships, 2 super bowl victories
Lombardi: 9-1 postseason record, 5 NFL championships including two Super Bowl victories.
Shanahan: 8-5 postseason record, 2 conference championships, 2 superbowl victories
no, I meant he doesn't compare with Parcells or Lombardi. Not even close.
January 02, 2009 at 10:01PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by khazim
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by khazim
He was responsible in so much as he was the head coach/GM/VP of football operations.
He is the best coach. In the history. Of your team. Which I have to emphasize. With periods. And it's. Exhausting.
A history. that's not. even 50. years old. and the first. seventeen. years. can be. written off.
When compared. with giants like. Lombardi. Walsh. Big Tuna. he doesn't compare. Shanahan is. a good coach. not a. great coach.
lombardi= 2 super bowl wins
parcells= 2 super bowl wins
shanahan= 2 super bowl wins.
looks like he compares pretty well to me. or did you mean 'giants' as in weight?
Parcells: 11-8 postseason record, 3 conference championships, 2 super bowl victories
Lombardi: 9-1 postseason record, 5 NFL championships including two Super Bowl victories.
Shanahan: 8-5 postseason record, 2 conference championships, 2 superbowl victories
no, I meant he doesn't compare with Parcells or Lombardi. Not even close.
whiskybear
The difference between Parcells and Shanahan, at the most superficial level, appears to be one conference championship and 3-3 in the playoffs. Not even close? I'd say that's fairly close.
(Oh, and what did Parcells ever do? Took over a Giants team that already had Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson and Phil Simms on it, that's all. Dude's a phony.)
January 02, 2009 at 10:16PM View BBCode
Shanahan doesn't compare with Lombardi. I mean, not many coaches do. Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, maybe Belichick?The difference between Parcells and Shanahan, at the most superficial level, appears to be one conference championship and 3-3 in the playoffs. Not even close? I'd say that's fairly close.
(Oh, and what did Parcells ever do? Took over a Giants team that already had Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson and Phil Simms on it, that's all. Dude's a phony.)
FuriousGiorge
I like when the premise is clearly contradicted by the evidence, but it's stated anyway.
January 02, 2009 at 11:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Parcells: 11-8 postseason record, 3 conference championships, 2 super bowl victories
Shanahan: 8-5 postseason record, 2 conference championships, 2 superbowl victories
no, I meant he doesn't compare with Parcells. Not even close.
I like when the premise is clearly contradicted by the evidence, but it's stated anyway.
sycophantman
January 03, 2009 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Yeah, this has to be some sort of high-level performance art, that's all I can make of it, honestly.