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jjmarsh17
July 31, 2012 at 07:22PM View BBCode
hey he is 6th in overall WAR. but yea, not an mvp right now, altho probably the mvp of his team. still the a's are developing into qutie a story. most likely they will just fade away and die but it's interesting right now espeically with most of us hating on the beaner.
tm4559
July 31, 2012 at 11:43PM View BBCode
well, shouldn't the beaner's 15 year rebuild finally be ready to go?
paulcaraccio
i initially read this as "also", but with a lisp.
August 01, 2012 at 08:04AM View BBCode
Originally posted by jjmarsh17
altho
i initially read this as "also", but with a lisp.
thatrogue
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
Not all of us are haterz...
August 01, 2012 at 11:36AM View BBCode
...acus Billy Beane is awesome!
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
jjmarsh17
Well then you read it correctly big boy
haha, i'm just horrible at typing on the ipad. hate it so, so any chance I get to short hand I try and take. I should probably get one of those case/keyboard deals, they look pretty cool.
August 01, 2012 at 01:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by paulcaraccio
Originally posted by jjmarsh17
altho
i initially read this as "also", but with a lisp.
Well then you read it correctly big boy
haha, i'm just horrible at typing on the ipad. hate it so, so any chance I get to short hand I try and take. I should probably get one of those case/keyboard deals, they look pretty cool.
jjmarsh17
he's dreamy
August 01, 2012 at 01:57PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
...acus Billy Beane is awesome!
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
he's dreamy
thatrogue
August 01, 2012 at 02:22PM View BBCode
I admire him for daring to try something a little different and defying conventional wisdom. Besides, he didn't write Moneyball, and I don't recall him being as big a self-promoter as some have accused.
tworoosters
He's even been given a piece of the team as a reward for their mediocrity .
August 01, 2012 at 03:31PM View BBCode
I admire him for having never built a team that went to the World Series, and whose team hasn't played .500 ball in the past 5 years before this year's edition, and yet still keeping his job as a major league general manager after 15 years.He's even been given a piece of the team as a reward for their mediocrity .
thatrogue
Even when the A's were consistently doing well, they were doing it without spending even average money. Beane's ownership share was a reward for dealing with the frugality of the team and not jumping ship.
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
It is pretty simple, Roosters...
August 01, 2012 at 03:40PM View BBCode
The A's have been among the bottom ten in team payroll during the considerable majority of that time. Of the WS participants, I believe only Texas, Tampa Bay and Florida have been among the bottom ten in team payroll during this period.Even when the A's were consistently doing well, they were doing it without spending even average money. Beane's ownership share was a reward for dealing with the frugality of the team and not jumping ship.
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
tm4559
August 01, 2012 at 04:30PM View BBCode
they ah, had some seasons there where they did "well" because they played in the crummiest division in history, whupping up on seattle and anaheim and texas again and again. they had starting pitching (that didn't take much of genius to draft), they bought some clowns cheap (hattieburg, david justice, whover they were) that drew some walks, they had scrap heap gimmick things like chad bradord (yeah, it took hitters a while to figure out an underhanded thrower, why wouldn't it?) they drafted a bunch of dogface college hitters than DePodesta claimed would get walked (they got walked in college, you know, because they up there with an aluminum rocket launcher in their hands, any pitcher with a brain would have been nibbling) that never could or did play in the majors, or, played and were so crummy they're washed up now. the payoff for getting to the playoffs was, they got beaten, at least in part because, playoff teams don't feature pitchers that give up a lot of walks, so, if your thing is drawing walks, you might be in trouble when you get to the playoffs and you are trying to draw walks and the other team is throwing strikes, and their offense, not drawing walks but walking back to the dugout got outscored by those other hitters on those other teams mostly because those hitters were better and the team that scores the most runs wins every game that's all.
tworoosters
That's great if you are the cheap bastards who own the A's but no reason to applaud Beane. The A's have been in the bottom of payroll because they choose to be, not because they have to be.
The A's were purchased in 2005 for $180 million and Forbes now values them at $433 million so crying poor and whining about not being able to move to San Jose is a tad hard to swallow. The principal owners, Lew Wolff and John Fisher, are billionaires, at some point doesn't a real GM go to them and say: "Hey guys lets spend some of the piles of money we're making and put a product on the field that the poor suckers in the stands can count on "
Beane was never going to jump ship because if he went somewhere else they might actually expect him to win, rather than just sit in the gym and be the smartest man in the world.
August 01, 2012 at 05:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
The A's have been among the bottom ten in team payroll during the considerable majority of that time. Of the WS participants, I believe only Texas, Tampa Bay and Florida have been among the bottom ten in team payroll during this period.
Even when the A's were consistently doing well, they were doing it without spending even average money. Beane's ownership share was a reward for dealing with the frugality of the team and not jumping ship.
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
That's great if you are the cheap bastards who own the A's but no reason to applaud Beane. The A's have been in the bottom of payroll because they choose to be, not because they have to be.
The A's were purchased in 2005 for $180 million and Forbes now values them at $433 million so crying poor and whining about not being able to move to San Jose is a tad hard to swallow. The principal owners, Lew Wolff and John Fisher, are billionaires, at some point doesn't a real GM go to them and say: "Hey guys lets spend some of the piles of money we're making and put a product on the field that the poor suckers in the stands can count on "
Beane was never going to jump ship because if he went somewhere else they might actually expect him to win, rather than just sit in the gym and be the smartest man in the world.
tm4559
August 01, 2012 at 05:17PM View BBCode
(but i like the beane okay and all, not a hater. their team this year is quite a story, truly.)
thatrogue
(As for leaving to go elsewhere, for every $25M increase in the A's value, Bean's 4% ownership stake increases by $1 million. Looking at the recent Dodger's sale, and assuming the value of the A's continues to increase, Beane's personal wealth increases as well. Unless another team offered him an ownership interest too, it would be kind of hard for him to walk away. The mean GM salary is approximately $650K per year, with Cashman topping the list at $2M per year, and Beane somewhere in the middle at approximately $1M+ per year. [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=98]Here is the latest A's Ownership Info[/url]. Based on this report, Beane's 4% stake is worth approximately $12.5M. Assuming he has been at that $1M salary since 2005, when he got the 4% stake, Beane's earned $8M in salary, which, when added to his ownership value, is a cool $20M "earned" over eight seasons. Not even Cashman has "earned" that.)
((And Tim, it is kind of hard to buy some of the better hitters without the payroll, no? The value of the walk was not about the walk, in and of itself. It was that other teams paid less for the walk than they did the HR, and if you could get those kind of assets more cheaply, and they would still lead you to score runs...especially with a pitching friendly home ballpark...then you take advantage of the market dynamics. It is not like the homegrown players like Tejada and Chavez and Giambi did not hit the HR, was it? It was just tougher for the A's to buy the big HR hitters on the open market.))
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
August 01, 2012 at 05:23PM View BBCode
The A's current value, as compared to their former value, does absolutely nothing to help with paying salaries...only cash flow does that. And while I believe the A's should have increased salary to actually go for it while they had the good pitchers, for whatever reasons they did not...and Beane had to deal with it.(As for leaving to go elsewhere, for every $25M increase in the A's value, Bean's 4% ownership stake increases by $1 million. Looking at the recent Dodger's sale, and assuming the value of the A's continues to increase, Beane's personal wealth increases as well. Unless another team offered him an ownership interest too, it would be kind of hard for him to walk away. The mean GM salary is approximately $650K per year, with Cashman topping the list at $2M per year, and Beane somewhere in the middle at approximately $1M+ per year. [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=98]Here is the latest A's Ownership Info[/url]. Based on this report, Beane's 4% stake is worth approximately $12.5M. Assuming he has been at that $1M salary since 2005, when he got the 4% stake, Beane's earned $8M in salary, which, when added to his ownership value, is a cool $20M "earned" over eight seasons. Not even Cashman has "earned" that.)
((And Tim, it is kind of hard to buy some of the better hitters without the payroll, no? The value of the walk was not about the walk, in and of itself. It was that other teams paid less for the walk than they did the HR, and if you could get those kind of assets more cheaply, and they would still lead you to score runs...especially with a pitching friendly home ballpark...then you take advantage of the market dynamics. It is not like the homegrown players like Tejada and Chavez and Giambi did not hit the HR, was it? It was just tougher for the A's to buy the big HR hitters on the open market.))
[Edited on 8-1-2012 by thatrogue]
tm4559
the funny thing about it was, when they actually did well, it was the things like chavez and tejada and giambi that led the attack (giambi of course was a walk drawer, because he was feared, but chavez and tejada were conventional hitters that went up there to hit and not walk, in Moneyballspeak, they were the type of hitters who "larded their RBI count," direct quote). the guys like justice and hattieburg were just kind of supplementary, nothing wrong with that. the things they drafted didn't pan out, but there is no shame in that, most of what every team drafts doesn't pan out, that's the nature of the thing.
August 01, 2012 at 05:39PM View BBCode
you know i like to have fun at the beane's expense.the funny thing about it was, when they actually did well, it was the things like chavez and tejada and giambi that led the attack (giambi of course was a walk drawer, because he was feared, but chavez and tejada were conventional hitters that went up there to hit and not walk, in Moneyballspeak, they were the type of hitters who "larded their RBI count," direct quote). the guys like justice and hattieburg were just kind of supplementary, nothing wrong with that. the things they drafted didn't pan out, but there is no shame in that, most of what every team drafts doesn't pan out, that's the nature of the thing.
tworoosters
True but the A's generated $160 M in revenue in 2011 and showed a profit in excess $14M despite doing virtually zero marketing and spending most of their time alienating their fan base.
Beane's stake in the team, and thus the decision to keep payroll down, makes him even more responsible for the team's failings in my mind. Even this year with a playoff spot staring him in the face and a glut of pitching on his team he did nothing to address the disaster that is the left side of Oakland's offense .
August 01, 2012 at 09:36PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
The A's current value, as compared to their former value, does absolutely nothing to help with paying salaries...only cash flow does that.
True but the A's generated $160 M in revenue in 2011 and showed a profit in excess $14M despite doing virtually zero marketing and spending most of their time alienating their fan base.
Beane's stake in the team, and thus the decision to keep payroll down, makes him even more responsible for the team's failings in my mind. Even this year with a playoff spot staring him in the face and a glut of pitching on his team he did nothing to address the disaster that is the left side of Oakland's offense .
xman2002
August 25, 2012 at 03:55AM View BBCode
ichiro was one of there best player's they ever had then they traded him.:(
thatrogue
Randy Johnson
Ken Griffey Jr
Alex Rodriguez
What's new about that?
August 25, 2012 at 12:32PM View BBCode
See also:Randy Johnson
Ken Griffey Jr
Alex Rodriguez
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