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FuriousGiorge
March 03, 2009 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Be that as it may, he also happens to be an unrepentant xenophobe who is constantly embarrassing himself. If an American baseball analyst took the sort of positions on, say, Dominican players that Cherry takes on Europeans, he'd be destroyed by the media. And no one would accept that "well, it's true" excuse. Because, quite frankly, what Cherry says isn't true. On the one hand, he thinks Europeans are soft and are making the game less physical. On the other hand, he blasts Ovechkin, in part, because he makes a lot of hits (which Cherry thinks are illegal ones, but that's neither here nor there - if European players are pussies like Cherry thinks, Ovechkin shouldn't be hitting anyone at all.) Like the thing about visors, what is that all about? Whether or not he was correct that most of the guys who wear them are Frenchmen and Europeans, what is the sense of telling guys not to wear them? I was watching the Caps the other day with my wife and she was dumfounded that players don't wear face masks. And, you know, considering all the guys who have had serious face and especially eye injuries, she has a point.
dirtdevil
as for the visors, the only way to get everyone to wear one is for the league to mandate it. my wife has the same opinion, and could never understand why i never wore one myself when i played senior hockey, and still don't. the simple truth is, players don't like them. it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't played the game, but wearing a visor drastically reduces your visibility on the ice, to the point where it impacts your game. most players aren't willing to accept that, particularly when they feel that nothing is going to happen to them. call it irrational and dumb all you like, but that's the truth. the other issue is that guys who wear visors tend (for whatever reason, most people attribute it to them feeling 'safer' but i can't say definitively whether that's true or not) to carry their sticks higher, and to cause more trouble on the ice. as the 'code' of the game frowns on this things, particularly in canada, visors are extremely unpopular here.
[Edited on 3-3-2009 by dirtdevil]
March 03, 2009 at 05:24AM View BBCode
as i said, he's become a bit of a cartoon of himself, which is too bad.as for the visors, the only way to get everyone to wear one is for the league to mandate it. my wife has the same opinion, and could never understand why i never wore one myself when i played senior hockey, and still don't. the simple truth is, players don't like them. it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't played the game, but wearing a visor drastically reduces your visibility on the ice, to the point where it impacts your game. most players aren't willing to accept that, particularly when they feel that nothing is going to happen to them. call it irrational and dumb all you like, but that's the truth. the other issue is that guys who wear visors tend (for whatever reason, most people attribute it to them feeling 'safer' but i can't say definitively whether that's true or not) to carry their sticks higher, and to cause more trouble on the ice. as the 'code' of the game frowns on this things, particularly in canada, visors are extremely unpopular here.
[Edited on 3-3-2009 by dirtdevil]
FuriousGiorge
March 03, 2009 at 05:45AM View formatted
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People can choose to wear them or not wear them. And I mean, I think it's irresponsible for a guy with the clout of a Don Cherry to basically call you a pussy for wearing one, but I don't really even care about that either. It's that everything always gets mixed up in his xenophobia (and, let's be honest, racism - in that clip where he's bitching about Ovi's celebrating, there's a video of a bunch of celebrating black soccer players juxtaposed with Cherry saying something like "is this what we want in the NHL?" That censored is not a coincidence.)
dirtdevil
i haven't seen the clip, so i can't comment on it either way. but yes, that censored probably is a coincidence.
March 03, 2009 at 05:58AM View BBCode
well, to be honest, that's what most of the guys who don't wear them call those who do on the ice, so i don't really see that you can blame cherry for that. for better or worse, that's the culture of it. which is why it won't change without it being league mandated.i haven't seen the clip, so i can't comment on it either way. but yes, that censored probably is a coincidence.
FuriousGiorge
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ZPa_wmkyI]Here you go.[/url]
March 03, 2009 at 06:04AM View BBCode
It's not. Come on. You're the leftiest guy here, and you're going to give Cherry a pass on his bigotry when it's right out in the open?[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ZPa_wmkyI]Here you go.[/url]
dirtdevil
but the soccer player thing? not racist. he's been ripped in the press up here (both right wing and left) pretty good for that spiel against ovechkin. he's been called a zenophobe, a bigot, a neanderthal, and a whole bunch more for his rant. but not one article anywhere has mentioned anything about the soccer players in the clip not being 'white'. he's been criticized a bit for knocking soccer, but not because the clips didn't have a bunch of white guys in it. i'd guess that whoever put it together (and you can be pretty certain it wasn't cherry) just pulled whatever over-the-top celebrations they could find from last week's (or month's, or whatever, they'd need to pick clips that the cbc owned or had access to as tsn and sportsnet show most of the soccer up here) european soccer games. people look at that clip and they see a bunch of soccer guys acting like twits because they put a ball the size of their head into a net 24 feet wide. they don't see a bunch of 'black' guys acting like twits, any more than people really notice that most of the quarterbacks in the cfl are black.
the fact is though, that with more and more people with a strong soccer background (who do tend to be european more than north american just by the demographics of the sport of soccer) entering the league there is more of the soccer-style exuberant goal celebration coming along with that. some people, especially the 'old guard' which cherry personifies, take issue with it. i don't see it as a big deal myself. as long as the guy celebrating isn't taunting the opposing bench or players when he's doing it, let them go nuts. the fans came to see a show, after all why wouldn't we give them one? but the diving and faking of injuries that came along with the soccer culture was (and continues to be, to a lesser extent) a big issue for quite a while. so there is an intermittent but ongoing discussion about how much of the 'soccer culture' people want to be around hockey. the soccer clips were just another part of that discussion. the fact that there are several black players among the group is entirely coincidental.
March 03, 2009 at 03:19PM View BBCode
if you're speaking about bigotry towards european hockey players, then no, i'm not. he's taken something that was thought to be true when he was coaching and just internalized it to the point that he casn't see it's no longer true, if it ever was. there are lots of europeans who play good, hard 'canadian' hockey, who will give a hit or take a hit to make a play or block a shot or any of the other dirty work that needs to be done to win. ovechkin is one of them. there are also lots of north american players who won't ignoring that to paint all europeans as soft or whatever is just dumb.but the soccer player thing? not racist. he's been ripped in the press up here (both right wing and left) pretty good for that spiel against ovechkin. he's been called a zenophobe, a bigot, a neanderthal, and a whole bunch more for his rant. but not one article anywhere has mentioned anything about the soccer players in the clip not being 'white'. he's been criticized a bit for knocking soccer, but not because the clips didn't have a bunch of white guys in it. i'd guess that whoever put it together (and you can be pretty certain it wasn't cherry) just pulled whatever over-the-top celebrations they could find from last week's (or month's, or whatever, they'd need to pick clips that the cbc owned or had access to as tsn and sportsnet show most of the soccer up here) european soccer games. people look at that clip and they see a bunch of soccer guys acting like twits because they put a ball the size of their head into a net 24 feet wide. they don't see a bunch of 'black' guys acting like twits, any more than people really notice that most of the quarterbacks in the cfl are black.
the fact is though, that with more and more people with a strong soccer background (who do tend to be european more than north american just by the demographics of the sport of soccer) entering the league there is more of the soccer-style exuberant goal celebration coming along with that. some people, especially the 'old guard' which cherry personifies, take issue with it. i don't see it as a big deal myself. as long as the guy celebrating isn't taunting the opposing bench or players when he's doing it, let them go nuts. the fans came to see a show, after all why wouldn't we give them one? but the diving and faking of injuries that came along with the soccer culture was (and continues to be, to a lesser extent) a big issue for quite a while. so there is an intermittent but ongoing discussion about how much of the 'soccer culture' people want to be around hockey. the soccer clips were just another part of that discussion. the fact that there are several black players among the group is entirely coincidental.
sycophantman
Words, words, words.
Dammit, just show us your tits, already...
March 03, 2009 at 04:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
if you're speaking about bigotry towards european hockey players, then no, i'm not. he's taken something that was thought to be true when he was coaching and just internalized it to the point that...
Words, words, words.
Dammit, just show us your tits, already...
dirtdevil
believe me, you do not want to see that.
March 03, 2009 at 05:19PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
Words, words, words.
Dammit, just show us your tits, already...
believe me, you do not want to see that.
FuriousGiorge
But either way, it doesn't matter. Xenophobia and racism are just two sides of the same coin. You're probably not going to find a lot of people who are one and not the other. And even if Don Cherry is one of those vanishingly small number of individuals, it doesn't excuse his behavior. The guy is an embarrassment. On this at least we can agree.
March 03, 2009 at 05:30PM View BBCode
He was watching the clip and commenting on it in real time (you can see at the end that he turns back to the camera). He makes his "this is what we want our hockey players to act like" at the end, when the black guys were dancing.But either way, it doesn't matter. Xenophobia and racism are just two sides of the same coin. You're probably not going to find a lot of people who are one and not the other. And even if Don Cherry is one of those vanishingly small number of individuals, it doesn't excuse his behavior. The guy is an embarrassment. On this at least we can agree.
folifan19
All I was trying to say is, they are equally annoying. I don't see much of Cherry, but when I do, I turn the station. I can't tolerate him any more than I can Vitale.
March 03, 2009 at 06:24PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Dickie V likes basketball and is an incessant cheerleader for every single player. Don Cherry hates the state of hockey and only roots for Canadian players.
All I was trying to say is, they are equally annoying. I don't see much of Cherry, but when I do, I turn the station. I can't tolerate him any more than I can Vitale.
dirtdevil
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by dirtdevil]
March 04, 2009 at 08:14PM View BBCode
moving on, calgary seems to have really strengthened themselves at the deadline with jokinen and leopold. i'm also sure that crosby is happy to see guerin arrive. the rangers do more weird stuff, dealing for morris and antropov and adding avery (good luck with that).[Edited on 3-4-2009 by dirtdevil]
dirtdevil
March 04, 2009 at 08:22PM View BBCode
well, he had been in tampa. that's about as close to dead as you can get in the nhl. outside of long island, of course.
FuriousGiorge
ETA: SOUTHEAST REPRESENT!
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by FuriousGiorge]
March 04, 2009 at 08:23PM View BBCode
(Tampa Bay won the Cup a few years ago. When was the last time the Bruins won one?)ETA: SOUTHEAST REPRESENT!
[Edited on 3-4-2009 by FuriousGiorge]
dirtdevil
sadly, 1972. against the rangers.
March 04, 2009 at 08:25PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
(Tampa Bay won the Cup a few years ago. When was the last time the Bruins won one?)
sadly, 1972. against the rangers.
FuriousGiorge
March 04, 2009 at 08:27PM View BBCode
(My team has never won one, sad face. But I have to stick up for my underappreciated division, which has had two Cup winners in the last decade.)
dirtdevil
and what's with paul holmgren? is he trying to reform the broad street bullies? (hello, phoenix? we're getting the band back together...)
March 04, 2009 at 08:34PM View BBCode
yes, both of whom promptly missed the playoffs the next year. (still, the division isn't neearly as bad as it gets blamed for being)and what's with paul holmgren? is he trying to reform the broad street bullies? (hello, phoenix? we're getting the band back together...)
dirtdevil
March 04, 2009 at 08:38PM View BBCode
only if stan jonathan and johnny wencik come out of retirement.
FuriousGiorge
March 04, 2009 at 08:46PM View BBCode
Did you know that Jokinen has never been to the playoffs? That's insane.
dirtdevil
March 04, 2009 at 08:50PM View BBCode
yep. current leader all-time, most games no playoffs. that should end now and guy charron can have his title back.
bobafett22
March 17, 2009 at 07:15PM View BBCode
speaking of Ovechkin, he got it handed to him by the Thrashers last night. Washington ... er... Jose Theodore is so polar this season.
FuriousGiorge
March 17, 2009 at 07:25PM View BBCode
That's kind of his MO. It's why he wasn't the starter to begin the season.Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35