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turkob
Agreed John. I definitely felt like the Germans were playing above their level, but I guess it caught up with them. The Italians play so conservatively it's aggravating, but there's no denying their skill. With Germany out though, I genuinely believe Portugal can pull it off.
July 05, 2006 at 01:43AM View BBCode
Originally posted by John61983
As for the two goals I can't blame anybody, the German side were just outclassed. I got the feeling watching germany the past couple games that they were playing above their level and today they just came back to earth I guess. Homefield advantage doesn't mean nearly as much as I thought it would.
Agreed John. I definitely felt like the Germans were playing above their level, but I guess it caught up with them. The Italians play so conservatively it's aggravating, but there's no denying their skill. With Germany out though, I genuinely believe Portugal can pull it off.
John61983
July 05, 2006 at 02:04AM View BBCode
darn I thought I double posted that comment oh well.... Just read turkob's quote to get the gist of what I said
whiskybear
The Italians play good defense. This is not the same as playing conservatively---they generated far more scoring opportunities than the Germans, who for the most part seemed content to hang back and sail their shots over the crossbar from 25 yards out. Italy was whistled offsides about 15 times and had a dozen corner kicks. Their style isn't conservative, they're simply not...good...at...offense. I kind of hate them.
July 05, 2006 at 03:27AM View BBCode
Originally posted by turkob
The Italians play so conservatively it's aggravating, but there's no denying their skill.
The Italians play good defense. This is not the same as playing conservatively---they generated far more scoring opportunities than the Germans, who for the most part seemed content to hang back and sail their shots over the crossbar from 25 yards out. Italy was whistled offsides about 15 times and had a dozen corner kicks. Their style isn't conservative, they're simply not...good...at...offense. I kind of hate them.
turkob
July 05, 2006 at 04:00AM View BBCode
I guess I call standing back and only sending 2-3 men forward on the counter to be a conservative offense. There's no real risk given that over the half the team is sitting back. That Cannavaro sob is a real elite stopper though.
Cubsfan13
Only kind of? If I didn't think a German loss brought Klinsmann closer to coaching the US*, I would have probably broken both my remote and my tv. Although I will say that Italy scoring late was almost better than penalty kicks. Almost.
*-The United States Soccer Federation (USSF) has apparently offered Klinsmann 1.5 million pounds (you can do the conversion) to become the coach of the United States Men's National team. They seem to be serious about it,which is a good thing.
http://wc2006.telegraph.co.uk/Document.aspx?id=E0655BE1-9460-4E8A-8C34-6DA63B155A20
July 05, 2006 at 04:19AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
I kind of hate them.
Only kind of? If I didn't think a German loss brought Klinsmann closer to coaching the US*, I would have probably broken both my remote and my tv. Although I will say that Italy scoring late was almost better than penalty kicks. Almost.
*-The United States Soccer Federation (USSF) has apparently offered Klinsmann 1.5 million pounds (you can do the conversion) to become the coach of the United States Men's National team. They seem to be serious about it,which is a good thing.
http://wc2006.telegraph.co.uk/Document.aspx?id=E0655BE1-9460-4E8A-8C34-6DA63B155A20
Cubsfan13
July 05, 2006 at 04:24AM View BBCode
Anyway, on the game, Italy was the better team. Podloski should have converted his chance on a header in Extra Time, but Italy had two shots hit the posts and had more chances throughout the game. The Germans certainly had a good World Cup though, and have nothing to be ashamed of. The Italians probably would have won it earlier if they had started with two forwards, but they did what they had to.
John61983
3 Million dollars for the the flying Dutchman. Whatever soccar will never get big in the US its kinda like tequila instead of Vodka shots for me. Fun for a while but give me Baseball any day of the week.
Alright lets go France. Italy Jr pisses me off in the same way Italy Sr does. If it ends up being Italy Jr vs Italy Sr, I probably won't watch the final.
July 05, 2006 at 04:48AM View BBCode
The falling the Italians did today was rediculous, it made me root for the Germans. When a team falls it really slows down the game and I really hate that. The game today in general was not the best played one in the World Cup. Both teams had chances early/middle of the game and didn't convert, and neither really followed a game plan. I got to give it to Italy not just resigning to penalties in the end and fighting it out.3 Million dollars for the the flying Dutchman. Whatever soccar will never get big in the US its kinda like tequila instead of Vodka shots for me. Fun for a while but give me Baseball any day of the week.
Alright lets go France. Italy Jr pisses me off in the same way Italy Sr does. If it ends up being Italy Jr vs Italy Sr, I probably won't watch the final.
scaffdog
July 05, 2006 at 03:53PM View BBCode
you should have seen the Italy match against the US...no there was some good actibg
drew
About the game, France is up 1-0 but Portugal has certainly played the better half. One mistake cost them a PK, but aside from that most all the chances have been for Portugal. Good game so far (aside from the booth).
July 05, 2006 at 07:43PM View BBCode
I'm rooting for France and all, but it still bugs me just how nonobjective the announcers are. They seem to take every opportunity to praise ZZ (who I really like) and they are obviously not fans of Portugal. It's fine that they feel that way, but it's hard to listen to so much fellating and berating. Why am I more concerned about the commentators than the game itself?About the game, France is up 1-0 but Portugal has certainly played the better half. One mistake cost them a PK, but aside from that most all the chances have been for Portugal. Good game so far (aside from the booth).
whiskybear
I was rooting for Italy, simply because I couldn't support the Aryan horde. That's my excuse.
As for the final, it will be the inferior Allied power from World War II versus the inferior Axis power.
Poor Portugal. One penalty kick and several missed opportunities (yikes, that header in the second half was point-blank) cost them a shot at their first Cup.
July 05, 2006 at 09:07PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Cubsfan13
Originally posted by whiskybear
I kind of hate them.
Only kind of?
I was rooting for Italy, simply because I couldn't support the Aryan horde. That's my excuse.
As for the final, it will be the inferior Allied power from World War II versus the inferior Axis power.
Poor Portugal. One penalty kick and several missed opportunities (yikes, that header in the second half was point-blank) cost them a shot at their first Cup.
rkinslow19
Aryan Horde? That's my kind of party
July 06, 2006 at 12:42AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
Originally posted by Cubsfan13
Originally posted by whiskybear
I kind of hate them.
Only kind of?
I was rooting for Italy, simply because I couldn't support the Aryan horde. That's my excuse.
Aryan Horde? That's my kind of party
Cubsfan13
And I'm not the only person outside of France who doesn't think Henry flopped, am I? Most of what I've read/heard talked about it being a flop (they even talked about it on PTI), but to me it looked to me like he legitimately landed on the side of his foot after being fouled by Carvalho, and fell. Maybe its because I wanted France to win, I don't know.
Zizou has obviously played great (I'll agree with you Drew, that it may have been repeated a bit too often), and he put that penalty in the only spot where Ricardo wouldn't have saved it. He also did very well to help control the ball and waste time late in the game. It really is amazing that France was almost knocked out and if Switzerland and Korea had tied, they may not still be in this (I'm not going to go back and look at goal differential to see if they would have been out). It seems like after Zidane played relatively mediocre in the first two matches, then didn't get to play in the Togo match, he realized that this was it and went into another gear for the knockout round.
I'll never understand why Scolari decided to put Cristiano Ronaldo as a forward near the end of the game. When he was playing in the midfield he was creating a lot of chances, but when he was a forward he barely got any touches. Not that I wanted him to do well..I was quite glad that he ended up doing shitty near the end.
July 06, 2006 at 12:57AM View BBCode
Barthez really almost fucked that up. I guess I'm glad for Figo that he's not retiring from Inter Milan, because missing that header would have been a really shitty way to go out (although there is the meaningless third place match). Unfortunately, I think Barthez will be the downfall of France against Italy.And I'm not the only person outside of France who doesn't think Henry flopped, am I? Most of what I've read/heard talked about it being a flop (they even talked about it on PTI), but to me it looked to me like he legitimately landed on the side of his foot after being fouled by Carvalho, and fell. Maybe its because I wanted France to win, I don't know.
Zizou has obviously played great (I'll agree with you Drew, that it may have been repeated a bit too often), and he put that penalty in the only spot where Ricardo wouldn't have saved it. He also did very well to help control the ball and waste time late in the game. It really is amazing that France was almost knocked out and if Switzerland and Korea had tied, they may not still be in this (I'm not going to go back and look at goal differential to see if they would have been out). It seems like after Zidane played relatively mediocre in the first two matches, then didn't get to play in the Togo match, he realized that this was it and went into another gear for the knockout round.
I'll never understand why Scolari decided to put Cristiano Ronaldo as a forward near the end of the game. When he was playing in the midfield he was creating a lot of chances, but when he was a forward he barely got any touches. Not that I wanted him to do well..I was quite glad that he ended up doing shitty near the end.
drew
Well, I look at a "dive" and "flop" as two different things. I see a dive as someone who does not get touched trying to draw a foul. A flop, however, is someone who is fouled simply giving in and letting himself fall. I have no problem with flops (it's smart soccer), but dives are obviously lame. I think Henry flopped, because there was certainly a foul---but, had he wanted to, he could have kept his balance. I have zero problem with the call. If the Portugal defender stays on his feet he would have been fine, good play by Henry.
July 06, 2006 at 02:49AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Cubsfan13
And I'm not the only person outside of France who doesn't think Henry flopped, am I?
Well, I look at a "dive" and "flop" as two different things. I see a dive as someone who does not get touched trying to draw a foul. A flop, however, is someone who is fouled simply giving in and letting himself fall. I have no problem with flops (it's smart soccer), but dives are obviously lame. I think Henry flopped, because there was certainly a foul---but, had he wanted to, he could have kept his balance. I have zero problem with the call. If the Portugal defender stays on his feet he would have been fine, good play by Henry.
Cubsfan13
July 06, 2006 at 03:02AM View BBCode
Alright, I'll agree with that. Flop and dive isn't the same, and he did exagerate it but was hit. Sounds good.
drew
Oh yeah, I watched the second half of the game on Univision and it was sooo much better. Everyone always talks about the way the announcers call goals, but my favorite part is certainly the start of each half, "Ahora, EN VIVO..." It gets me pumped up every time. Plus I get to try and brush up on my Spanish.
July 06, 2006 at 03:17AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Cubsfan13
(I'll agree with you Drew, that it may have been repeated a bit too often)
Oh yeah, I watched the second half of the game on Univision and it was sooo much better. Everyone always talks about the way the announcers call goals, but my favorite part is certainly the start of each half, "Ahora, EN VIVO..." It gets me pumped up every time. Plus I get to try and brush up on my Spanish.
Cubsfan13
Anyway, overall the ESPN commentary has been horrid. Maybe its because I was only half awake for most of the games in 2002, but it seemed like it was much better then. Rob Stone did a few games this cup too and I think he was the best of the announcers. Dave O'Brien and Marcelo Balboa are pretty horrible. O'Brien just isn't accustomed to calling soccer games and Balboa is pretty dumb and doesn't seem to know much for a guy who played at a pretty high level for a while.
July 06, 2006 at 03:31AM View BBCode
Jose Chilavert is doing some commentary on Univision, right? I remember him dominating for Paraguay during the 1998 World Cup. Great goalkeeper. One of the only keepers I can remember who took close free kicks and penalties regularly. I've heard he's an asshole though.Anyway, overall the ESPN commentary has been horrid. Maybe its because I was only half awake for most of the games in 2002, but it seemed like it was much better then. Rob Stone did a few games this cup too and I think he was the best of the announcers. Dave O'Brien and Marcelo Balboa are pretty horrible. O'Brien just isn't accustomed to calling soccer games and Balboa is pretty dumb and doesn't seem to know much for a guy who played at a pretty high level for a while.
drew
And I have no clue who calls the games for Univision. I just know that they shit on the ESPN guys.
July 06, 2006 at 03:38AM View BBCode
I happen to prefer the Balboa-O'Brien duo (they were the ones who did the Italy-Germany game right?), the combo that drives me crazy are the guys who did today's game. I don't know their names (I just googled and I think JP Dellacamera is the color guy), but I have grown to hate them.And I have no clue who calls the games for Univision. I just know that they shit on the ESPN guys.
Cubsfan13
I don't know if Chilavert does the actual game or a studio show. I don't think he'd be the play by play guy, he may be in the same role Eric Wynalda is on ESPN of in studio analyst.
July 06, 2006 at 03:47AM View BBCode
Yea, DOB and Balboa did the Italy-Germany game and all the US games. O'Brien has gotten better, I'll give him that. I just wish he'd get more..excited. And I can't stand Balboa still. He just bugs me. He seems to encourage dirty play a lot, I guess thats the main thing. Oh, and I think Dellacamera was the play by play man with ex US national team player John Harkes as the color guy. The low point for the ESPN commentary was the team of Shep Messing and..some other guy, who weren't even in Germany. They watched the games on TV from Connecticut and did commentary, which resulted in a delay. And Messing was soccer's Dick Vitale.I don't know if Chilavert does the actual game or a studio show. I don't think he'd be the play by play guy, he may be in the same role Eric Wynalda is on ESPN of in studio analyst.
Cubsfan13
July 07, 2006 at 05:40PM View BBCode
Apparently Oliver Khan is going to start in goal for Germany in the third place game. Nice gesture by Klinsmann.
scaffdog
July 07, 2006 at 08:27PM View BBCode
nothing like only being dominant 90% of the time to get your ass pulled
Cubsfan13
Oh, and Cristiano Ronaldo made sure he remained my least favorite player for.. a while.
July 09, 2006 at 02:49AM View BBCode
Great performance from Germany in the third place game. Scweinstager put in two great shots from outside the box and also was the kicker of the free kick on the own goal. Very good game, nice up and down match. I doubt the finals will be as highscoring, but it would be nice if it was nearly as wide open.Oh, and Cristiano Ronaldo made sure he remained my least favorite player for.. a while.
max_fischer
July 10, 2006 at 10:35AM View BBCode
Zidane's head-butt. Incredible. One of the most blatantly dirty plays I have ever seen in sports, and certainly the most surprising given the source. The final was mostly uninspiring, but it was definitely marred by Zidane.
Kraftwerk
July 10, 2006 at 01:51PM View BBCode
But still a great game. Many great chances, penalty kick ending, general awesomeness and no portoguese...
Cubsfan13
Anyway, I thought the game was pretty good. Good attacking chances for both sides, especially France. I really wish Djibril Cisse hadn't gotten hurt before the World Cup, because I would have loved to see a combination of him and Henry upfront. I thought Thierry played well yesterday but there was never anyone there to help him in the attack when he would put a few moves on some Italian players. Zidane really didn't have a great game before the incident. He had gotten better as the game went on, and right until the head butting thing I was sure the French were going to score.
Cannavarro, Gatusso, Grosso, and Buffon have been very good for Italy throughout the cup. I'd probably give Cannavarro the Golden Ball. Barthez still sucks and couldn't have been worse on the shitty penalties. Buffon wasn't great either, he didn't make a single save in the shootout. This is the World Cup final, I don't understand why we need to go to the shootout. If they don't want to just play to a golden goal after the overtime, they could do a replay like they have in the FA Cup a week after the original final. Another solution is to declare the team with more shots on goal the winner, which would encourage attacking soccer. Hopefully this World Cup is the last of the 4-5-1. Its not used much in league play really, so I guess its just the over-conservatism of not wanting to lose.
I thought it was a pretty good cup overall, better than 2002. There weren't that many goals scored but the quality was pretty decent, despite a lot of diving and some negative soccer. I'm looking forward to the league season, hopefully Chelsea doesn't buy all the Italian players after (hopefully) the teams involved in the scandal get relegated.
July 10, 2006 at 03:31PM View BBCode
The rumor I've gotten from the couple World Cup shows on XM and some reading is that Materazzi made some racial/religious comments about Zidane, who is a muslim and originally from Algeria. Zidane got upset, as most would have. I obviously don't condone Zidane's actions and he must realize that Materazzi was trying to get under his skin, and that he is also playing for his team. I do hope action is taken against Materazzi if the rumors are proven true, or this whole "stamp out racism in football" thing will have been worthless.Anyway, I thought the game was pretty good. Good attacking chances for both sides, especially France. I really wish Djibril Cisse hadn't gotten hurt before the World Cup, because I would have loved to see a combination of him and Henry upfront. I thought Thierry played well yesterday but there was never anyone there to help him in the attack when he would put a few moves on some Italian players. Zidane really didn't have a great game before the incident. He had gotten better as the game went on, and right until the head butting thing I was sure the French were going to score.
Cannavarro, Gatusso, Grosso, and Buffon have been very good for Italy throughout the cup. I'd probably give Cannavarro the Golden Ball. Barthez still sucks and couldn't have been worse on the shitty penalties. Buffon wasn't great either, he didn't make a single save in the shootout. This is the World Cup final, I don't understand why we need to go to the shootout. If they don't want to just play to a golden goal after the overtime, they could do a replay like they have in the FA Cup a week after the original final. Another solution is to declare the team with more shots on goal the winner, which would encourage attacking soccer. Hopefully this World Cup is the last of the 4-5-1. Its not used much in league play really, so I guess its just the over-conservatism of not wanting to lose.
I thought it was a pretty good cup overall, better than 2002. There weren't that many goals scored but the quality was pretty decent, despite a lot of diving and some negative soccer. I'm looking forward to the league season, hopefully Chelsea doesn't buy all the Italian players after (hopefully) the teams involved in the scandal get relegated.