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DougB
Pitchers - significantly increase the weighting for control.
Hitters - significantly increase the weighting for Power vs. Righty, slightly decrease the weighting for Contact vs. Lefty, Speed, range, and arm. Also, health might be very important for great players but it is of little value for poor players.
Very Easy Improvement
August 06, 2003 at 01:29PM View BBCode
Change the way the "overall" rank is determined. It is unfair to new players.Pitchers - significantly increase the weighting for control.
Hitters - significantly increase the weighting for Power vs. Righty, slightly decrease the weighting for Contact vs. Lefty, Speed, range, and arm. Also, health might be very important for great players but it is of little value for poor players.
andrew
August 06, 2003 at 03:18PM View BBCode
Some of that is true, and there would not be much deabate about (contact and power vs. lefties). But for things like speed and health it is really hard to figure their true worth so I don't know. Anyways am I the only one who thinks that it is a good thing for newbies to go through a learning stage, we all had to also. If we did this most all newbies would be using the same setting and that would get boring for them. I say let em figure it out, it isn't that tough and some of it is common sense.
DougB
August 07, 2003 at 01:12AM View BBCode
I repectfully disagree. Because to me the overall grade should not be there to confuse the new player. What would be FAR better than the current situation is this... to not have any overall grade whatsoever. Then the owner could estimate what they think is most important without being snookered into thinking that A- velocity C- control pitcher is good because his overall grade is higher than that B- velocity B- control guy.
Bills4593
August 07, 2003 at 12:52PM View BBCode
i for one never look at overall grade....but if some 1 does and takes it to consideration then he must be stupid...or new
andrew
August 07, 2003 at 04:03PM View BBCode
I use the overall grade all the time to determan which player is better... but i simply know better then to assume a A+ volocity, D+ control is better then a B control, B volocity guy. You just have to use common sence IMHO.
andrew
That is very true but I think most new players are smart enough to know that a balanced guy is better then an unbalanced guy. It is slightly confusing, but once you have played a single season league or two you should have it all figured out.
BTW
August 07, 2003 at 04:07PM View BBCode
Because to me the overall grade should not be there to confuse the new player.
That is very true but I think most new players are smart enough to know that a balanced guy is better then an unbalanced guy. It is slightly confusing, but once you have played a single season league or two you should have it all figured out.
BravesLuver
Overall rating is useless. I just look at who has contact and power vs r/l in batters, and who has control and endurance in pitchers.
Overall Record IS useless.
August 07, 2003 at 10:49PM View BBCode
Some of my C+ guys are doing better than some of my B- guys.Overall rating is useless. I just look at who has contact and power vs r/l in batters, and who has control and endurance in pitchers.
jer2911
For instance, you could have it weighted 55 Control, 40 Velocity, and 5 Endurance, and it would show you the pitchers ranked according to how you value them. There could also be a checbox so it could order the players including the Youth rating (so you could judge potential) and without the Youth rating (so you could judge who is currently the best).
August 07, 2003 at 11:42PM View BBCode
Doug, I think a better idea than this would to be able to change the Player Rankings so that they are ordered according to your preferences and what you value. A system like that used for the drafts would work well.For instance, you could have it weighted 55 Control, 40 Velocity, and 5 Endurance, and it would show you the pitchers ranked according to how you value them. There could also be a checbox so it could order the players including the Youth rating (so you could judge potential) and without the Youth rating (so you could judge who is currently the best).
DougB
August 07, 2003 at 11:48PM View BBCode
Jer - that is a good idea. I tried to do the same thing once but it was too much effort. I ranked the starting pitchers by overall and by control. Then I added up the totals (sorting by name and using excel with an if statement). Then sorted by the sum of the 2 rankings. Then the C+ Velocity A- control guys were ranked higher than the A velocity B- control guys and it all made sense. But again... it was too much to do. Your idea would be a fine one.
andrew
August 08, 2003 at 12:53AM View BBCode
But the newbies would still not know what rankings to favor...
DougB
August 08, 2003 at 01:14AM View BBCode
But they would not be tricked - that was my main point.
andrew
August 08, 2003 at 01:17AM View BBCode
I am saying they would not know what ratings to favor on the rankings page if we let them do their own settings. So they wouldn't be tricked, but they would instead be relying totally on their knowlage of SD which may be 'bad knowlage'.
jvo1
August 08, 2003 at 01:19AM View BBCode
How about no overall ranking? Just all the others, and the individual decides how valuable they are.
jvo1
August 08, 2003 at 01:20AM View BBCode
That is basically what all you are getting to, eventually, I just said it.
DeVeau31
The better idea would be to weight everything equally. For example, if you have an A+ vel / C+ control pitcher, he should have well over 1K/IP. In SD, we hardly ever see that average. Also, for a A/A average vs L/R player with C/C power, he should hit .330 with 10-15 HR's.
To me, I am getting sick of this game personally. People aren't stupid, they've been around the game and therefore when they start a custom league, everyone goes for the same thing, power, youth, and control. The game needs to be fixed, plain and simple. I am sick and tired of having to fight with people about trades since everyone wants the same guys. And if you have old guys, you are almost forced to keep them, because people want the younger guy with some power or some control.
August 08, 2003 at 01:23AM View BBCode
I personally don't care if they are tricked or not, let em figure it out. I had to figure it out. I got my ass handed to me in my first few seasons, and I still am now, so you need to learn on your own.The better idea would be to weight everything equally. For example, if you have an A+ vel / C+ control pitcher, he should have well over 1K/IP. In SD, we hardly ever see that average. Also, for a A/A average vs L/R player with C/C power, he should hit .330 with 10-15 HR's.
To me, I am getting sick of this game personally. People aren't stupid, they've been around the game and therefore when they start a custom league, everyone goes for the same thing, power, youth, and control. The game needs to be fixed, plain and simple. I am sick and tired of having to fight with people about trades since everyone wants the same guys. And if you have old guys, you are almost forced to keep them, because people want the younger guy with some power or some control.
DougB
jvo
August 08, 2003 at 02:24AM View BBCode
I already said the same thing as you in the 3rd post of this thread.
jvo1
August 08, 2003 at 04:19AM View BBCode
DougB...your correct, I was just skimming through and missed that you said that. Not to steal your glory, but I think the overall rating is there to give a good idea of the skill of that player. That said, I dont like it either. It would be much better to have an Offensive overall and a Defensive overall. I dont know if thats been said (cause I'm too lazy to read) but I think that would be an awesome idea.
jer2911
Does that matter that much? It could start with the default overall ranking, and then new owners could adjust them as they see fit. As they figure out what they prefer they can adjust as they see fit. I think it would also help people to get a better feel for ranking in the amateur draft, because they could tinker with the player rankings and see what sort of player is ranked higher for the different settings to use.
August 08, 2003 at 04:30AM View BBCode
But the newbies would still not know what rankings to favor...
Does that matter that much? It could start with the default overall ranking, and then new owners could adjust them as they see fit. As they figure out what they prefer they can adjust as they see fit. I think it would also help people to get a better feel for ranking in the amateur draft, because they could tinker with the player rankings and see what sort of player is ranked higher for the different settings to use.
andrew
good point.
August 08, 2003 at 04:39AM View BBCode
I think it would also help people to get a better feel for ranking in the amateur draft, because they could tinker with the player rankings and see what sort of player is ranked higher for the different settings to use.
good point.
redcped
Is there any reason why a hitter with A contact/C power should have trouble hitting .300, but a guy with C contact/A power can do it much easier? Same with the velocity/control problem. A guy with A+ velocity should be hard to hit; he may walk more guys if his control is weaker, but he shouldn't get shelled all that often.
Also, defensive stats' importance is still fairly nebulous. It's not clear how outfielder range factors in, and their arms only seem to come into play on throws to the plate on attempted sac flies. I've had great fielding teams, and I notice we got a lot of infield DPs, but I don't know how many hits we prevented to make the pitching look better than it was.
Also, bunting should either be eliminated as a category or should have a role in the game closer to real baseball. I figure if it's not something you can rank for amateur drafts, it is almost just there for show.
And what about pitchers' hitting and speed? A good-hitting pitcher can be a great asset, but there's no way to try to get them in the drafts. Does that factor into their overall grades, though?
August 08, 2003 at 08:50AM View BBCode
What this thread makes clear is that Tyson's next major improvement probably should be to re-adjust the importance of various skills so that overall grade actually does mean something.Is there any reason why a hitter with A contact/C power should have trouble hitting .300, but a guy with C contact/A power can do it much easier? Same with the velocity/control problem. A guy with A+ velocity should be hard to hit; he may walk more guys if his control is weaker, but he shouldn't get shelled all that often.
Also, defensive stats' importance is still fairly nebulous. It's not clear how outfielder range factors in, and their arms only seem to come into play on throws to the plate on attempted sac flies. I've had great fielding teams, and I notice we got a lot of infield DPs, but I don't know how many hits we prevented to make the pitching look better than it was.
Also, bunting should either be eliminated as a category or should have a role in the game closer to real baseball. I figure if it's not something you can rank for amateur drafts, it is almost just there for show.
And what about pitchers' hitting and speed? A good-hitting pitcher can be a great asset, but there's no way to try to get them in the drafts. Does that factor into their overall grades, though?
andrew
Pitchers overall grades are only based on Volocity and control, endurance and their hitting stats are not factored in.
August 08, 2003 at 05:52PM View BBCode
Does that factor into their overall grades, though?
Pitchers overall grades are only based on Volocity and control, endurance and their hitting stats are not factored in.
redcped
August 08, 2003 at 06:41PM View BBCode
Endurance is not factored into pitching grades? I find that very hard to believe since it is a category they can improve in.
dcoombs
I'm pretty sure endurance is not included on the calc for overall pitching grade (it sure seems that way looking at the player rankings page). Before, I thought F endurance relievers were pretty much worthless even if they were A/A velocity control because they pitched to 2-3 batters tops, now it seems the other way (good C endurance relief pitchers can go 7 innings, witness Sid Buckels this past year, 13 games, 13 starts, 88 IP).
David
August 08, 2003 at 06:54PM View BBCode
Jason,I'm pretty sure endurance is not included on the calc for overall pitching grade (it sure seems that way looking at the player rankings page). Before, I thought F endurance relievers were pretty much worthless even if they were A/A velocity control because they pitched to 2-3 batters tops, now it seems the other way (good C endurance relief pitchers can go 7 innings, witness Sid Buckels this past year, 13 games, 13 starts, 88 IP).
David
Bob
Hitters' overall ratings are based on contact vs. RHP, contact vs. LHP, power vs. RHP, power vs. LHP, speed, arm and range. Each category contributes equally (approximately 14.3%).
August 08, 2003 at 07:01PM View BBCode
Pitchers' overall ratings are based 50% on control and 50% on velocity -- endurance is not a factor.Hitters' overall ratings are based on contact vs. RHP, contact vs. LHP, power vs. RHP, power vs. LHP, speed, arm and range. Each category contributes equally (approximately 14.3%).
HollywoodOz
Added to that, I'm offering teams ten player deals (including half my starting roster, and a hefty chunk of project kids) for one young player with the right stats (power, control) and being turned down flat every day as if I offered 34yr old C players.
The weighting of categories needs to be fixed so contact matters, velocity works, and good defense can be seen in the play by play, otherwise each player might as well have only two categories.
August 08, 2003 at 09:05PM View BBCode
I agree with DeVeau's earlier post - the game does need some fixing in making the categories work. I've got an A power catcher with D contact and he's hitting .290 most of the time. I don't mind that in my case, but it's pretty crappy when it's league-wide.Added to that, I'm offering teams ten player deals (including half my starting roster, and a hefty chunk of project kids) for one young player with the right stats (power, control) and being turned down flat every day as if I offered 34yr old C players.
The weighting of categories needs to be fixed so contact matters, velocity works, and good defense can be seen in the play by play, otherwise each player might as well have only two categories.
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