 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Baseball Beta Testing » Long Term League Talk » Injured Reserve System
tysonlowery
I think I have it mostly straight in my head on how I want it to work, but I need some help on the last part.
If a player is injured, you can place him on the injured reserve. He won't count against your 25 major league roster limit and won't have to go the minors.
You will have to keep him on the injured reserve list for a minimum of 15 days. No retroactive stuff (at least at first).
Now the tricky part comes with what to do when the player is healthy again. I don't see any problems with teams moving him back to the team - but what if they don't do this in a reasonable amount of time? I've been looking around for rules on this in MLB. The only thing I found is this:
"According to the Rules, players on a Disabled List "may be assigned to a Minor League Club for the purpose of injury rehabilitation for a maximum of 20 days in the case of non-pitchers and 30 days in the case of pitchers."
Here's what I'm thinking. If the player is on the DL for more than 30 days (configurable for private leagues) after his injury has healed, then he will automatically be placed in the minors. Once we have a waiver wire system in place, he would have to pass through waivers first before going to the minors.
Any thoughts?
Injured Reserve System
June 02, 2004 at 09:33PM View BBCode
One of the things that I'm going to need first before adding in some waiver wire stuff and other anti-tanking measures is an injured reserve.I think I have it mostly straight in my head on how I want it to work, but I need some help on the last part.
If a player is injured, you can place him on the injured reserve. He won't count against your 25 major league roster limit and won't have to go the minors.
You will have to keep him on the injured reserve list for a minimum of 15 days. No retroactive stuff (at least at first).
Now the tricky part comes with what to do when the player is healthy again. I don't see any problems with teams moving him back to the team - but what if they don't do this in a reasonable amount of time? I've been looking around for rules on this in MLB. The only thing I found is this:
"According to the Rules, players on a Disabled List "may be assigned to a Minor League Club for the purpose of injury rehabilitation for a maximum of 20 days in the case of non-pitchers and 30 days in the case of pitchers."
Here's what I'm thinking. If the player is on the DL for more than 30 days (configurable for private leagues) after his injury has healed, then he will automatically be placed in the minors. Once we have a waiver wire system in place, he would have to pass through waivers first before going to the minors.
Any thoughts?
arodtoo
June 02, 2004 at 09:59PM View BBCode
you should also have it be an option to able to have him promoted to the majors automatically when he is healthy. Otherwise in leagues that play 15 games a day if you are gone for a long weeked you could lose your stud sp.
tysonlowery
I was thinking about that scenario a bit - I think in that case you probably wouldn't use the Disabled List. You would let the player stay on your team so you wouldn't lose him.
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by tysonlowery]
June 02, 2004 at 10:10PM View BBCode
That would be the other way of doing it. In that scenario, which player would be returned to the minors?I was thinking about that scenario a bit - I think in that case you probably wouldn't use the Disabled List. You would let the player stay on your team so you wouldn't lose him.
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by tysonlowery]
thejoe914
June 02, 2004 at 10:45PM View BBCode
well... from what i am thinking, a player who gets injured is a player that you are playing and probably want to keep playing, and players in SD dont need to "warm-up" in the minors to see if they are ready enought to come back to the bigs.... they are either injured or fine. So i think in most every case of an injury the owner in going to want the player to come right back to his major league roster. I think that the main option should be "send back to major league roster, demote _______________ to minors."
gmclaws
[Edited on 6-2-2004 by gmclaws]
June 02, 2004 at 11:14PM View BBCode
I believe the manager should have the right to put him in the minors for 15 days for rehab. But he should either be brought back to the major league team after that time or have to clear waivers.[Edited on 6-2-2004 by gmclaws]
ME
June 03, 2004 at 04:42AM View BBCode
There should be a way to set it up so you can have a player on the DL automatically put back into the starting lineup when he is no longer injured.
FiveToolPlayer
What if you simply left him on the DL? He just sat there until you manually sent him back to the majors or down to the minors. In real life, this happens. Sometimes the guy gets mad because he is healthy but often times, you don't hear about him. Would this scenario give a manager any unfair advantage? I can't see one.
Also, don't forget that there are two scenarios for when the player is healthy. First, if they player is injured for less than 15 games, he'll be healthy before he's eligible to return. Second, a player who is injured for over 15 games will be eligible before he's healthy. I'm not sure how that would effect anything but it's something to think about.
I'm VERY excited about this new feature!!
June 03, 2004 at 12:44PM View BBCode
I'm not sure how well the auto-return feature would work because we would have options. If a player is automatically returned, it would force another player to use an option. If he has none, he will go on waivers. Therefore, some players will become automatically waived when the other player is off the DL. I don't like that scenario.What if you simply left him on the DL? He just sat there until you manually sent him back to the majors or down to the minors. In real life, this happens. Sometimes the guy gets mad because he is healthy but often times, you don't hear about him. Would this scenario give a manager any unfair advantage? I can't see one.
Also, don't forget that there are two scenarios for when the player is healthy. First, if they player is injured for less than 15 games, he'll be healthy before he's eligible to return. Second, a player who is injured for over 15 games will be eligible before he's healthy. I'm not sure how that would effect anything but it's something to think about.
I'm VERY excited about this new feature!!
celamantia
How about we take this literally. Once a player has been on the list for at least 15 days and has less than 30 days of injury left, the owner can send him to the minors and apply coach points to him to speed up his rehab. If he's selected for an "improvement chance", he has a chance based on his health of taking a day off his injury. Say 20%+(Health/2).
Once he's been in the minors more than 30 days, he goes through waivers.
Are you going to have both a 15-day DL and a 60-day DL?
--Chris
June 03, 2004 at 12:50PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tysonlowery
Now the tricky part comes with what to do when the player is healthy again. I don't see any problems with teams moving him back to the team - but what if they don't do this in a reasonable amount of time? I've been looking around for rules on this in MLB. The only thing I found is this:
"According to the Rules, players on a Disabled List "may be assigned to a Minor League Club for the purpose of injury rehabilitation for a maximum of 20 days in the case of non-pitchers and 30 days in the case of pitchers."
Here's what I'm thinking. If the player is on the DL for more than 30 days (configurable for private leagues) after his injury has healed, then he will automatically be placed in the minors. Once we have a waiver wire system in place, he would have to pass through waivers first before going to the minors.
How about we take this literally. Once a player has been on the list for at least 15 days and has less than 30 days of injury left, the owner can send him to the minors and apply coach points to him to speed up his rehab. If he's selected for an "improvement chance", he has a chance based on his health of taking a day off his injury. Say 20%+(Health/2).
Once he's been in the minors more than 30 days, he goes through waivers.
Are you going to have both a 15-day DL and a 60-day DL?
--Chris
DeVeau31
Let's assume you have 25 majors leaguers and 15 minor leaguers, someone gets hurt, goes to the DL, someone from the minors is brought up to replace him, now you lose CP chances because you have less than 15 players in the minors?
June 03, 2004 at 12:53PM View BBCode
If the player doesn't count on your 25 man roster, and doesn't go to the minors, then wouldn't you be in violation of the roster rules?Let's assume you have 25 majors leaguers and 15 minor leaguers, someone gets hurt, goes to the DL, someone from the minors is brought up to replace him, now you lose CP chances because you have less than 15 players in the minors?
Bob
June 03, 2004 at 01:24PM View BBCode
I think FTP has it right -- leave the guy on the disabled list. It isn't really an advantage to the owner to do so and it happens in real life all the time. Plus, it has another major advantage -- it's simple to program and to understand.
tysonlowery
I wasn't going to have a 15 day DL and 60 day DL. In MLB, the 60-Day DL is for players you want to have off your 40-man roster. Since we don't use 40-man rosters, this doesn't apply. If we were to add something in the future that resembles the rules for 40-man rosters, I might add a 60-Day DL.
To Tom's question, he would count towards neither roster.
June 03, 2004 at 03:24PM View BBCode
There is one way that owners may be able to take advantage of this in the future, and that is if they are trying to tank and a veteran gets injured they could leave him on the DL. But I suppose that however I build penalties in for mistreating veterans, leaving an uninjured player on the DL would be treated the same way as leaving a good vet on the bench or in the minors.I wasn't going to have a 15 day DL and 60 day DL. In MLB, the 60-Day DL is for players you want to have off your 40-man roster. Since we don't use 40-man rosters, this doesn't apply. If we were to add something in the future that resembles the rules for 40-man rosters, I might add a 60-Day DL.
To Tom's question, he would count towards neither roster.
tysonlowery
June 03, 2004 at 03:25PM View BBCode
I think I'm going to keep it simple and allow you to leave a guy on the DL indefinitely once he is injured. Thanks for the input guys.
DeVeau31
June 03, 2004 at 03:28PM View BBCode
I'm not asking which he'd count against. If you had 25 in the majors, and he got hurt and went to the DL, you still have 25 in the majors? If you promote one of your 15 minor leaguers to take his spot, do you have 26 in the majors and 14 in the minors, or 25 and 15? I realize that DL spot is invisible, but what about everyone else?
tysonlowery
June 03, 2004 at 03:50PM View BBCode
Technically in the database, you would have 24-15-1 once he was injured and 25-14-1 once you promote somebody. There is a flag for each player that indicates whether he is in the majors (1) or in the minors (0). For players on the DL, this flag will be set to -1
DeVeau31
I think the database should add the minors and DL numbers together and have it equal a minimum of 15.
June 03, 2004 at 04:10PM View BBCode
right, so my point is, will you lose CP chances since the database thinks you only have 14 players in the minors?I think the database should add the minors and DL numbers together and have it equal a minimum of 15.
thejoe914
June 03, 2004 at 04:19PM View BBCode
i think you have to pick up another player for your minor league team to get it back up to the 15.
DeVeau31
This system, if I am seeing it correctly, is creating a loophole, unless you make players on the DL eligible for improvement chances.
The way I see it is: if the minors + DL is at least 15, then apply 2 improvement chances. This will make DL players eligible for improvements, but if you don't want them to be, then a team with a few players on the DL has their 3 players in the minors with 5 CP's magnified because there are less places for an improvement chance to go. And you sure as hell don't want to penalize a team's improvement chances because someone on their squad got injured, that's penalty enough.
June 03, 2004 at 04:30PM View BBCode
then that makes no sense. You shouldn't have to add a waiver wire player to your roster to accomodate an injury.This system, if I am seeing it correctly, is creating a loophole, unless you make players on the DL eligible for improvement chances.
The way I see it is: if the minors + DL is at least 15, then apply 2 improvement chances. This will make DL players eligible for improvements, but if you don't want them to be, then a team with a few players on the DL has their 3 players in the minors with 5 CP's magnified because there are less places for an improvement chance to go. And you sure as hell don't want to penalize a team's improvement chances because someone on their squad got injured, that's penalty enough.
tysonlowery
People with injured players in the minors were getting a slight advantage in terms of improvement chances. This would remove that.
BTW - this system is up and running, you can find it under GM.
June 03, 2004 at 05:28PM View BBCode
Tom - lets talk this through some more. So you have a player go down with an injury, then have to move him to the DL. Then you may or may not call someone up to replace him. Assuming you do call someone up, you're left with 14 guys in the minors. If you remember how it works, basically you're losing an improvement chance when that 15th invisible coach point gets selected. So you actually aren't losing any real improvement chances that would have gone to the 14 players in the minors. If you want to pick someone up to enjoy that 1 out of every 30th time it gets hit, that's fine.People with injured players in the minors were getting a slight advantage in terms of improvement chances. This would remove that.
BTW - this system is up and running, you can find it under GM.
DeVeau31
June 03, 2004 at 05:34PM View BBCode
I thought if you had less than 15 players in the minors, or less than 15 CP's assigned, you may get zero opportunities in a game?
tysonlowery
June 03, 2004 at 05:39PM View BBCode
You could get zero, but the chances would be 1 in 900 if you had 14 minor league players, or 14 assigned CP. Basically, Abe selects a number between 1 and 30 to decide who gets the improvement chance. If you have less than 30 CPs (15 assigned plus 15 invisible), then you aren't using up all the numbers.
Bob
Therefore, if you always had 14 minor leaguers, you would expect to only receive one improvement opportunity about 5.4 times per season. Roughly once every 5.55 seasons you wouldn't receive any opportunities.
Damn -- posted at the same time again and I was again the slowpoke. Oh, well.
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by Bob]
June 03, 2004 at 05:40PM View BBCode
It is possible. If you've got 14 minor leaguers there is essentially 1 invisible CP that isn't assigned. If that unassigned invisible CP is selected (a 1 in 30 chance), then you would only receive 1 improvement opportunity. If that unassigned invisible CP was selected for both improvement opportunities (a 1 in 900 chance), then you wouldn't receive any improvement opportunities for that game.Therefore, if you always had 14 minor leaguers, you would expect to only receive one improvement opportunity about 5.4 times per season. Roughly once every 5.55 seasons you wouldn't receive any opportunities.
Damn -- posted at the same time again and I was again the slowpoke. Oh, well.
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by Bob]
DeVeau31
June 03, 2004 at 05:44PM View BBCode
I think the odds are irrelevant. If a team has 3 guys on the DL, the odds are even higher. It's unfair to force a team into this situation where they could lose opportunities. Not only that, but you're now expecting a team to have major league ready talent in the minors to replace an injured player with, and maybe even 2 or 3. Aren't we trying to get away from having major leaguers hidden in the minors, now we're encouraging it?
celamantia
In my minds, that's really the chance you take when you strip your minor league system to the bone. Right now, there's no real penalty for having a stripped down farm system. This issue encourages a little more depth in the minors.
--Chris
June 03, 2004 at 05:53PM View BBCode
Originally posted by DeVeau31
I think the odds are irrelevant. If a team has 3 guys on the DL, the odds are even higher. It's unfair to force a team into this situation where they could lose opportunities. Not only that, but you're now expecting a team to have major league ready talent in the minors to replace an injured player with, and maybe even 2 or 3. Aren't we trying to get away from having major leaguers hidden in the minors, now we're encouraging it?
In my minds, that's really the chance you take when you strip your minor league system to the bone. Right now, there's no real penalty for having a stripped down farm system. This issue encourages a little more depth in the minors.
--Chris
Bob
First, having 15 minor leaguers has always been the minimum -- you are allowed to carry up to 25. So they're not being penalized for having an injury, they're being penalized for falling beneath the minimum.
Second, from a practical perspective even if you leave your minors at 14 the penalty is minor. Let's face it, under the current system only the guys with CPs assigned really ever improve by a meaningful amount -- and these guys would never be penalized under this system. Any CPs lost would have gone to a guy with no CPs assigned -- a guy who really wouldn't improve much anyway.
Third, I don't think this will encourage people to keep more major-league quality players in the minors. I think most managers already keep a few good veterans in the minors in case of injury. Personally, I put 5 CPs each on my 3 best prospects and then devote the rest of my minors to major league backups or long-term projects.
I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that any CP "penalty" created by the DL is really insignificant and not worth worrying over. Just my opinion, though.
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by Bob]
June 03, 2004 at 06:03PM View BBCode
I disagree with Tom for a few reasons.First, having 15 minor leaguers has always been the minimum -- you are allowed to carry up to 25. So they're not being penalized for having an injury, they're being penalized for falling beneath the minimum.
Second, from a practical perspective even if you leave your minors at 14 the penalty is minor. Let's face it, under the current system only the guys with CPs assigned really ever improve by a meaningful amount -- and these guys would never be penalized under this system. Any CPs lost would have gone to a guy with no CPs assigned -- a guy who really wouldn't improve much anyway.
Third, I don't think this will encourage people to keep more major-league quality players in the minors. I think most managers already keep a few good veterans in the minors in case of injury. Personally, I put 5 CPs each on my 3 best prospects and then devote the rest of my minors to major league backups or long-term projects.
I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that any CP "penalty" created by the DL is really insignificant and not worth worrying over. Just my opinion, though.
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by Bob]
celamantia
Right now, there are 10 injured players in all of Beta. In the real MLB, there appears to be an average of 4 or 5 injured players per team.
With the 15-day minimum on the DL, this would be a great time to add more 5 to 15 day injuries, as it now adds a more strategic element of do you put them on the DL or just keep them day-to-day.
--Chris
June 03, 2004 at 06:05PM View BBCode
By the way, now that we have a proper DL, we probably should take an opportunity to increase the number of injuries.Right now, there are 10 injured players in all of Beta. In the real MLB, there appears to be an average of 4 or 5 injured players per team.
With the 15-day minimum on the DL, this would be a great time to add more 5 to 15 day injuries, as it now adds a more strategic element of do you put them on the DL or just keep them day-to-day.
--Chris
Pages: 1 2