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irishman36
It seems for some positions like WR and defensive line players get tired after appropriate numbers of plays. However for other positions like offensive line (who ever sees offensive line guys coming out for a breather) or even qb (reallly really the qb gets too tired to play come on) the game seems to be sorely lacking in realism.
It takes away from some of the strategy of the game also I find. It is hard to run a dink and dunk offense that might take 10 or 11 plays down the field because you litterally can run out of guys to play. I have experimented with different settings for substitution etc. and you can lesson the effect somewhat but it is still there.
Am I alone in thinking this?
Stamina thoughts.
April 25, 2014 at 05:22PM View BBCode
Not sure if this is the right place to do this but I was just wondering if anyone else has any issues with the reality of stamina for players.It seems for some positions like WR and defensive line players get tired after appropriate numbers of plays. However for other positions like offensive line (who ever sees offensive line guys coming out for a breather) or even qb (reallly really the qb gets too tired to play come on) the game seems to be sorely lacking in realism.
It takes away from some of the strategy of the game also I find. It is hard to run a dink and dunk offense that might take 10 or 11 plays down the field because you litterally can run out of guys to play. I have experimented with different settings for substitution etc. and you can lesson the effect somewhat but it is still there.
Am I alone in thinking this?
Admin
The default in the game is to sub out at 50%; if a QB with decent stamina comes out with that setting, then there is an issue. (It's designed where only QB's with a stamina of D or less should ever get substituted.) But if you are using a QB with D- Stamina or have him set to sub out at 80 or 85%, then yes, he will substitute and I find nothing unrealistic about that.
For example, your QB is set to sub out at 65%, but you say "reallly really the qb gets too tired to play come on". No, he is not too tired to play, but you have told him that he is so he dutifully comes out and rests. If you don't want your QB to come out, don't increase the Sub Out setting from the default. Increasing the Sub Out setting is explicitly telling the sim "I want my QB to be considered too tired to play when he still has 65% of his energy left".
This made sense because I had players' skills falling off too fast when tired. I have adjusted this so it is no longer the case.
Now, if you happen to have a backup QB that is better at 95% than your main QB is at 65%, sure, sub him out, but if you make that choice, you can't fault the game for unrealistic substitutions.
On the subject of QB's: When a QB gets sacked, it saps some of his energy, so if you have a QB that gets sacked a lot he may sub out earlier than expected.
All that being said, re-balancing fatigue is something that probably needs to happen, but when I we do it will be based on the default substitution settings, not the cranked up version.
Chris
April 25, 2014 at 05:39PM View BBCode
It depends a lot on your settings. The rate of tiredness is based on creating realistic substitutions at the default settings. There has been a tendency to ramp up Sub Out settings to swap out players that are not yet actually tired. With these settings, you SHOULD run out of players, by design.The default in the game is to sub out at 50%; if a QB with decent stamina comes out with that setting, then there is an issue. (It's designed where only QB's with a stamina of D or less should ever get substituted.) But if you are using a QB with D- Stamina or have him set to sub out at 80 or 85%, then yes, he will substitute and I find nothing unrealistic about that.
For example, your QB is set to sub out at 65%, but you say "reallly really the qb gets too tired to play come on". No, he is not too tired to play, but you have told him that he is so he dutifully comes out and rests. If you don't want your QB to come out, don't increase the Sub Out setting from the default. Increasing the Sub Out setting is explicitly telling the sim "I want my QB to be considered too tired to play when he still has 65% of his energy left".
This made sense because I had players' skills falling off too fast when tired. I have adjusted this so it is no longer the case.
Now, if you happen to have a backup QB that is better at 95% than your main QB is at 65%, sure, sub him out, but if you make that choice, you can't fault the game for unrealistic substitutions.
On the subject of QB's: When a QB gets sacked, it saps some of his energy, so if you have a QB that gets sacked a lot he may sub out earlier than expected.
All that being said, re-balancing fatigue is something that probably needs to happen, but when I we do it will be based on the default substitution settings, not the cranked up version.
Chris
dirtdevil
if you're like me, you set your fatigue sub settings higher than default. I think this is optimal gameplay, but it does remove the blame for fatigue substitutions form the game engine and drops it in our lap. I remember when I first started with the high sub-outs I had my QB set to come out at 80%. there were several instances where my starter came out in tight moments where I obviously wanted him to be on the field instead of the backup. so after a round or two of complaining, I set the QB sub floor to 75% instead and I can probably count on one hand the number of times i've had a QB sub out tired since.
I think that fatigue and the settings around it are part of the strategy of the game, rather than a detraction from it. that may be less true with the new revisions in the fatigue related skill loss model. it sounds like the new model is more realistic than the old. either way though, if we raise the sub floor on fatigue and our guys get subbed out, that's our decision, not AFE's. effectively what we've done at that point is made a coaching decision to take that player out of the game at that moment because we think he's too tired. I kind of imagine my little codebit throwing a mini-tantrum on his way to the sideline because he wanted to stay in. we took that decision out of his hands though.
April 25, 2014 at 07:23PM View BBCode
as chris says, you can't necessarily conflate fatigue-based substitutions with being 'tired'.if you're like me, you set your fatigue sub settings higher than default. I think this is optimal gameplay, but it does remove the blame for fatigue substitutions form the game engine and drops it in our lap. I remember when I first started with the high sub-outs I had my QB set to come out at 80%. there were several instances where my starter came out in tight moments where I obviously wanted him to be on the field instead of the backup. so after a round or two of complaining, I set the QB sub floor to 75% instead and I can probably count on one hand the number of times i've had a QB sub out tired since.
I think that fatigue and the settings around it are part of the strategy of the game, rather than a detraction from it. that may be less true with the new revisions in the fatigue related skill loss model. it sounds like the new model is more realistic than the old. either way though, if we raise the sub floor on fatigue and our guys get subbed out, that's our decision, not AFE's. effectively what we've done at that point is made a coaching decision to take that player out of the game at that moment because we think he's too tired. I kind of imagine my little codebit throwing a mini-tantrum on his way to the sideline because he wanted to stay in. we took that decision out of his hands though.
irishman36
The other thing that doesn't ring true to me is formational substitution on the offensive line to "keep them fresh". In both the NFL and college ranks Olineman play the whole game without resting and wear the defensive line down. Again I think the game has it SPOT ON when it comes to defensive fatigue and skill positions but feel that OLman tire a bit too quickly. I guess maybe I have to set them down to 50% or do a bunch of subbing.
April 25, 2014 at 07:38PM View BBCode
Yes I do understand where you all are coming from. Currently I have my sub outs set at 60% across the board in 5 leagues. I still do see the QB being subbed for a disturbing amount of times on long drives. And yes that is partly because I am very conservative on offense and have long slow drives.The other thing that doesn't ring true to me is formational substitution on the offensive line to "keep them fresh". In both the NFL and college ranks Olineman play the whole game without resting and wear the defensive line down. Again I think the game has it SPOT ON when it comes to defensive fatigue and skill positions but feel that OLman tire a bit too quickly. I guess maybe I have to set them down to 50% or do a bunch of subbing.
dirtdevil
as far as the OL fatigue goes, I have to admit it's been so long since I only used one line that I have no idea. when I get into my new beta team i'll maybe give it a try and see.
April 25, 2014 at 07:54PM View BBCode
mine are a lot higher than 60 and I almost never see a QB sub. do you have a really low STAM QB?as far as the OL fatigue goes, I have to admit it's been so long since I only used one line that I have no idea. when I get into my new beta team i'll maybe give it a try and see.
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