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Admin
The next biggest thing is passing balance. The passing formulas have been rewritten to try to get results that look more like reality, and to reduce the dominance of shotgun passing, especially in the short passing game. For this reason, the pass completion percentage is displayed on every pass right now. You will be surprised by how high some of these are, but remember they balance with the low ones so the average team should have an average completion rate of about 60%. Of course if you are throwing long all the time your completion rate will (or at least should) be much lower.
Here is the change list, along with some "what to look for" notes:
- Fixed a bug that would cause blank strategies to exist in some circumstances.
- Fixed a bug that would cause long passes to be more successful than they should in certain leagues in certain circumstances.
- Fixed a bug related to penalties on 2-point conversions. You should actually never see a penalty on a 2-point conversion. If you see one, it's a bug.
- Fixed a bug that could occasionally result in the incorrect player being drafted.
- Added a Very Long strategy line to all downs.
- Added a First and Medium and First and Very Long. First Down strategy was renamed to First and Long.
- Increased strategy plans per line from 4 to 6.
- Added Shotgun Draw and Shotgun Sweep play groups.
- The defense no longer automatically changes to a passing defense when the offense comes out in a shotgun, since running out of shotgun is now possible. You will still automatically switch to a nickel formation, though.
- Adjusted out of position Execution penalties. A new page under Help shows all of the penalties.
- Reduced the effect of fatigue at lower fatigue levels. It is now advantageous to let higher-skilled starters play longer.
- Started tracking tackles. These are badly out of whack right now, but I haven't had time to analyze it. If you see players or positions who have way too many or few tackles relative to reality, feel free to report it.
- Reduced overall sack rate.
- Improved helmet/logo quality.
- Added over 100 new helmet logos. Please feel free to note which ones are not ready for prime time so I can either redo them, replace them or remove them. For example, I recently noticed that the edges of the spiral were ragged and redrew it to smooth them out. Some of the drawings are clip art, some are my own art, and a few are Hodor's designs which I have either copied or re-imagined. I already have my doubts if "Scaly Eye" is good enough to stay.
- Added 20 more helmet colors.
- Added a new helmet builder that allows stripes to be added and facemask colors to be changed. This page has the potential to be problematic in either offbeat browsers or older browsers; please let me know if you see anything weird on the page.
- Premium leagues can opt to skip part or all of the preseason.
- Premium leagues can add one or more offdays before the draft.
- Premium leagues can have the preseason run on a different schedule than the regular season (different times and/or more/less games per day)
- Added a Substitutions page to allow the default preseason and blowout substitution settings to be adjusted.
- Added 8 team leagues as an option for Premium leagues. This isn't 100% right yet; at some point I will probably start an 8 team league to test this.
- Added extra headers every 20 rows in Improvement Report.
- Changed text on handoff fumbles to make it clear that the handoff was muffed.
Chris
What to look for, and differences between beta and the live version of the game
August 04, 2014 at 05:20PM View BBCode
The biggest short-term thing I need to test right now is draft ranking. In our 32-team leagues, the site starts to die at the end of the evening as everyone makes last minute draft adjustments. This doesn't seem to happen in 16 team leagues. The draft may be paused for a couple of days as we pound on this; I may have to arrange a specific time for everyone to try to log in and change their draft settings at once.The next biggest thing is passing balance. The passing formulas have been rewritten to try to get results that look more like reality, and to reduce the dominance of shotgun passing, especially in the short passing game. For this reason, the pass completion percentage is displayed on every pass right now. You will be surprised by how high some of these are, but remember they balance with the low ones so the average team should have an average completion rate of about 60%. Of course if you are throwing long all the time your completion rate will (or at least should) be much lower.
Here is the change list, along with some "what to look for" notes:
- Fixed a bug that would cause blank strategies to exist in some circumstances.
- Fixed a bug that would cause long passes to be more successful than they should in certain leagues in certain circumstances.
- Fixed a bug related to penalties on 2-point conversions. You should actually never see a penalty on a 2-point conversion. If you see one, it's a bug.
- Fixed a bug that could occasionally result in the incorrect player being drafted.
- Added a Very Long strategy line to all downs.
- Added a First and Medium and First and Very Long. First Down strategy was renamed to First and Long.
- Increased strategy plans per line from 4 to 6.
- Added Shotgun Draw and Shotgun Sweep play groups.
- The defense no longer automatically changes to a passing defense when the offense comes out in a shotgun, since running out of shotgun is now possible. You will still automatically switch to a nickel formation, though.
- Adjusted out of position Execution penalties. A new page under Help shows all of the penalties.
- Reduced the effect of fatigue at lower fatigue levels. It is now advantageous to let higher-skilled starters play longer.
- Started tracking tackles. These are badly out of whack right now, but I haven't had time to analyze it. If you see players or positions who have way too many or few tackles relative to reality, feel free to report it.
- Reduced overall sack rate.
- Improved helmet/logo quality.
- Added over 100 new helmet logos. Please feel free to note which ones are not ready for prime time so I can either redo them, replace them or remove them. For example, I recently noticed that the edges of the spiral were ragged and redrew it to smooth them out. Some of the drawings are clip art, some are my own art, and a few are Hodor's designs which I have either copied or re-imagined. I already have my doubts if "Scaly Eye" is good enough to stay.
- Added 20 more helmet colors.
- Added a new helmet builder that allows stripes to be added and facemask colors to be changed. This page has the potential to be problematic in either offbeat browsers or older browsers; please let me know if you see anything weird on the page.
- Premium leagues can opt to skip part or all of the preseason.
- Premium leagues can add one or more offdays before the draft.
- Premium leagues can have the preseason run on a different schedule than the regular season (different times and/or more/less games per day)
- Added a Substitutions page to allow the default preseason and blowout substitution settings to be adjusted.
- Added 8 team leagues as an option for Premium leagues. This isn't 100% right yet; at some point I will probably start an 8 team league to test this.
- Added extra headers every 20 rows in Improvement Report.
- Changed text on handoff fumbles to make it clear that the handoff was muffed.
Chris
CoachBattaglia
Just some note.
This will reduce the need of a good bench, which IMO is a good part of the game.
I'd like not to have the white background on Fleur De Lis; it doesn't fit with helmet colours (esp. Sanits' one).
Where is that?
EDIT: I know it was largely discussed ... but I think that OL members should be subject to substitution only because of fatigue, not depending on formation; rarely it happens in the real football, because OL is more "chemistry factor" influenced.
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by CoachBattaglia]
August 04, 2014 at 05:54PM View BBCode
Everything is clear and perfect.Just some note.
Originally posted by Admin
- Reduced the effect of fatigue at lower fatigue levels. It is now advantageous to let higher-skilled starters play longer.
This will reduce the need of a good bench, which IMO is a good part of the game.
Originally posted by Admin
- Added over 100 new helmet logos. Please feel free to note which ones are not ready for prime time so I can either redo them, replace them or remove them. For example, I recently noticed that the edges of the spiral were ragged and redrew it to smooth them out. Some of the drawings are clip art, some are my own art, and a few are Hodor's designs which I have either copied or re-imagined. I already have my doubts if "Scaly Eye" is good enough to stay.
I'd like not to have the white background on Fleur De Lis; it doesn't fit with helmet colours (esp. Sanits' one).
Originally posted by Admin
- Added a Substitutions page to allow the default preseason and blowout substitution settings to be adjusted.
Where is that?
EDIT: I know it was largely discussed ... but I think that OL members should be subject to substitution only because of fatigue, not depending on formation; rarely it happens in the real football, because OL is more "chemistry factor" influenced.
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by CoachBattaglia]
RichNYC1
This will reduce the need of a good bench, which IMO is a good part of the game.
Has this been done as of the last day or so? I was watching this over the past weekend and energy levels were so slow to return that I was seeing a lot offensive players on defense and visa versa. I have lowered my sub-out settings since, will check when the games play again.
August 04, 2014 at 08:30PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Admin
- Reduced the effect of fatigue at lower fatigue levels. It is now advantageous to let higher-skilled starters play longer.
This will reduce the need of a good bench, which IMO is a good part of the game.
Has this been done as of the last day or so? I was watching this over the past weekend and energy levels were so slow to return that I was seeing a lot offensive players on defense and visa versa. I have lowered my sub-out settings since, will check when the games play again.
Admin
Has this been done as of the last day or so? I was watching this over the past weekend and energy levels were so slow to return that I was seeing a lot offensive players on defense and visa versa. I have lowered my sub-out settings since, will check when the games play again.
It's been this way for a month at least. And yes, part of the point of this is to force people to lower their sub-out settings without penalizing them horribly for doing so. And as you can see you still need a deep bench to keep players from having to play out of position. I should have listed this as a priority thing to keep an eye on: With the default or reasonable adjustments from the default, a healthy team with a good bench should not have oddball substitution, but teams that crank up their substitutions to the highest setting should find themselves wiping out their players with yellow bars.
Chris
August 04, 2014 at 08:47PM View BBCode
Originally posted by RichNYC1
Originally posted by Admin
- Reduced the effect of fatigue at lower fatigue levels. It is now advantageous to let higher-skilled starters play longer.
This will reduce the need of a good bench, which IMO is a good part of the game.
Has this been done as of the last day or so? I was watching this over the past weekend and energy levels were so slow to return that I was seeing a lot offensive players on defense and visa versa. I have lowered my sub-out settings since, will check when the games play again.
It's been this way for a month at least. And yes, part of the point of this is to force people to lower their sub-out settings without penalizing them horribly for doing so. And as you can see you still need a deep bench to keep players from having to play out of position. I should have listed this as a priority thing to keep an eye on: With the default or reasonable adjustments from the default, a healthy team with a good bench should not have oddball substitution, but teams that crank up their substitutions to the highest setting should find themselves wiping out their players with yellow bars.
Chris
JoeyMac08
August 04, 2014 at 08:48PM View BBCode
Any chance offensive line settings can be grouped together? So teams cannot use the 2 line strategy? Also teams are now using 2 QB's in the same way as 2 lines. A fix for those 2 issues would be fantastic and I think you would see a very positive response from the pay league participants!
blakjakshalak
Teams have been doing that off and on for a long while. As far as I can remember, Casper came up with that early on. That is an artifact of the current setup where the shotgun is only for passing. Owners will have a pass blocking line and their better passer in the shotgun formation and anyone else (sometimes a RB) in the I and pro sets with a run blocking line. I've seen guys line up TEs at WR to get more blocking.
Now that you can run out of the shotgun, there is no advantage to doing any of that (or at least less). There is still a lot of OL substitution in the beta league but I think most of it is to keep guys fresh.
August 04, 2014 at 09:36PM View BBCode
Originally posted by JoeyMac08
Any chance offensive line settings can be grouped together? So teams cannot use the 2 line strategy? Also teams are now using 2 QB's in the same way as 2 lines. A fix for those 2 issues would be fantastic and I think you would see a very positive response from the pay league participants!
Teams have been doing that off and on for a long while. As far as I can remember, Casper came up with that early on. That is an artifact of the current setup where the shotgun is only for passing. Owners will have a pass blocking line and their better passer in the shotgun formation and anyone else (sometimes a RB) in the I and pro sets with a run blocking line. I've seen guys line up TEs at WR to get more blocking.
Now that you can run out of the shotgun, there is no advantage to doing any of that (or at least less). There is still a lot of OL substitution in the beta league but I think most of it is to keep guys fresh.
casperthegm
August 04, 2014 at 10:35PM View BBCode
I still use the shotgun line for passing only, never running out of it.
JoeyMac08
And the same for QB's. One setting so they play every down, not just to come in and hand the ball off.
August 04, 2014 at 10:58PM View BBCode
The running out of shotgun has done zero to stop the 2 line system. As Casper stated, just don't run out of shotgun. We need one setting for the line. They play in every set until they need subbed out for fatigue reasons. This will force owners to get well rounded linemen.And the same for QB's. One setting so they play every down, not just to come in and hand the ball off.
jaspiese81
August 05, 2014 at 04:12AM View BBCode
Thanks for the run down commish. But as Vasquez said: Man I only need to know one thing...Where...They...Are...
Admin
If you have the depth to alter OL or QB every other play, but with the new fatigue settings, owners that substitute a lot tend to have a lot of players with yellow bars.
Chris
August 05, 2014 at 09:05AM View BBCode
There are some subtleties in the code that discourage rapidly swapping players. For one, players generally have to sit at least one play now before they start recovering energy, so if you were to alternate players every other play you would effectively tire them both out faster. Also, the average starting QB at 80% is usually better than a backup QB at 100%.If you have the depth to alter OL or QB every other play, but with the new fatigue settings, owners that substitute a lot tend to have a lot of players with yellow bars.
Chris
jaspiese81
August 05, 2014 at 12:56PM View BBCode
I do have a question. Where can I see the draft order?
casperthegm
August 05, 2014 at 12:59PM View BBCode
Click on News, then scroll down to draft pick trades and click on it. That will show the order.
RichNYC1
So its pretty simple, if you only throw out of shotgun why would the defense ever play the run vs that set? If you only run from 2 RB sets why would a defense ever play the pass vs that set? The way to end this issue, and a lot of other issues, is to make the defense more "intelligent". We already have the "keyed-in" programmed. We have the (easy) ability to scout the opponent through watching games or just by looking at the tremendous quantity of statistics that the game generates. Sadly, you cant make the defense do what you want it to do because, frankly, the defense is still pretty "dumb". I think an owner still needs to set-up the right play calls. If you are in a 65% run defense vs a 70% passing team thats your mistake, but when a team has used the same throw in the same spot over and over the defense should be killing it. If you only throw Short, Medium and Long Shotgun the % of time the defense gets the call right should go up significantly. If you only run from 2 back sets, then its inside or outside, a defense would dominate that in the pros. Lastly pro teams dont throw deep as much as we do. We need to look at that and make 2nd or 3rd and 7 different than 2nd or 3rd and 14. 3rd and 7 is probably a 30-35%+ conversion. 3rd and 14 is probably like 10%. We are way over that right now and thats the part that matters, who cares how the substitute?
There is one other thing I see that I think merits some debate. Why have Shbo2 and Casper been so successful the last 10-12 seasons? They´ve had good QB´s yes, but they have both built strong offensive lines with good pass protectors. They stay balanced and give up very few sacks. But even more so they give up a lot less QB pressures. If you look at their teams they dont seem that great and they carry 10-12 offensive linemen. Thats how you win playoff games right now because a defense cant sell out to the pass or they will kill you on the ground. Its a very smart strategy. My only question here is do we put too much emphasis on the Strength attribute because for me it would seem this strategy is the closest anyone has come to actually gaming the system. I am not saying its wrong, I am just asking the question. Again they´ve had good QB´s, but their completion % on 20+ yard passes is 60%+ and they are throwing it deep a lot, 150-200 times per season. I think a 60% completion rate is high under any conditions and I wonder if building your team around very strong, 62-68 rated offensive linemen is conducive to a fun game and does it negate the difference between lower and higher rated players? An 80 rated OL should be a much better player than a 62 rated player, right now it doesnt seem there is that much difference, so whats the point of picking high in the draft? Maybe other OL attributes like EXE and AGL need to be weighted more.
August 05, 2014 at 07:10PM View BBCode
I dont understand why we are looking at this issue they way we are. This is not about using different linemen in different sets, NFL teams regularly use sub packages. Maybe they dont sub the whole offensive line, but its not really the issue in this case. We are so hung up (and I guess the engine is so dependent on) stamina levels that we are forgetting about how the NFL game really works. Pro offenses are based around their ability to disguise what they are doing so to leave the defense guessing. An offense that allows a defense to easily read "keys" is going to get smothered if all things are equal talent-wise, which they generally are in SD between teams with participating owners.So its pretty simple, if you only throw out of shotgun why would the defense ever play the run vs that set? If you only run from 2 RB sets why would a defense ever play the pass vs that set? The way to end this issue, and a lot of other issues, is to make the defense more "intelligent". We already have the "keyed-in" programmed. We have the (easy) ability to scout the opponent through watching games or just by looking at the tremendous quantity of statistics that the game generates. Sadly, you cant make the defense do what you want it to do because, frankly, the defense is still pretty "dumb". I think an owner still needs to set-up the right play calls. If you are in a 65% run defense vs a 70% passing team thats your mistake, but when a team has used the same throw in the same spot over and over the defense should be killing it. If you only throw Short, Medium and Long Shotgun the % of time the defense gets the call right should go up significantly. If you only run from 2 back sets, then its inside or outside, a defense would dominate that in the pros. Lastly pro teams dont throw deep as much as we do. We need to look at that and make 2nd or 3rd and 7 different than 2nd or 3rd and 14. 3rd and 7 is probably a 30-35%+ conversion. 3rd and 14 is probably like 10%. We are way over that right now and thats the part that matters, who cares how the substitute?
There is one other thing I see that I think merits some debate. Why have Shbo2 and Casper been so successful the last 10-12 seasons? They´ve had good QB´s yes, but they have both built strong offensive lines with good pass protectors. They stay balanced and give up very few sacks. But even more so they give up a lot less QB pressures. If you look at their teams they dont seem that great and they carry 10-12 offensive linemen. Thats how you win playoff games right now because a defense cant sell out to the pass or they will kill you on the ground. Its a very smart strategy. My only question here is do we put too much emphasis on the Strength attribute because for me it would seem this strategy is the closest anyone has come to actually gaming the system. I am not saying its wrong, I am just asking the question. Again they´ve had good QB´s, but their completion % on 20+ yard passes is 60%+ and they are throwing it deep a lot, 150-200 times per season. I think a 60% completion rate is high under any conditions and I wonder if building your team around very strong, 62-68 rated offensive linemen is conducive to a fun game and does it negate the difference between lower and higher rated players? An 80 rated OL should be a much better player than a 62 rated player, right now it doesnt seem there is that much difference, so whats the point of picking high in the draft? Maybe other OL attributes like EXE and AGL need to be weighted more.
casperthegm
I think Rich is right on the money here. I'm no programmer so this might be easier to say than to actually implement, but yeah, If I'm only passing out of the shotgun the defense should be "smart enough" to catch on pretty quickly. Whether that is dialing up the "keyed in" or whatever, but that is a pretty realistic solution. Like Rich said, it's all about disguising what you're doing and if you're making it obvious, like I have been there should be a more severe penalty.
As far as the o-line, Rich and I have talked about that a bit and I agree, it seems a big skewed toward strength. I can go heavy on carrying strong linemen to keep them fresh. A good o-line should have an impact, so I don't think it's a huge tweak that is needed, but it's worth looking at.
August 05, 2014 at 07:28PM View BBCode
Originally posted by RichNYC1
I dont understand why we are looking at this issue they way we are. This is not about using different linemen in different sets, NFL teams regularly use sub packages. Maybe they dont sub the whole offensive line, but its not really the issue in this case. We are so hung up (and I guess the engine is so dependent on) stamina levels that we are forgetting about how the NFL game really works. Pro offenses are based around their ability to disguise what they are doing so to leave the defense guessing. An offense that allows a defense to easily read "keys" is going to get smothered if all things are equal talent-wise, which they generally are in SD between teams with participating owners.
So its pretty simple, if you only throw out of shotgun why would the defense ever play the run vs that set? If you only run from 2 RB sets why would a defense ever play the pass vs that set? The way to end this issue, and a lot of other issues, is to make the defense more "intelligent". We already have the "keyed-in" programmed. We have the (easy) ability to scout the opponent through watching games or just by looking at the tremendous quantity of statistics that the game generates. Sadly, you cant make the defense do what you want it to do because, frankly, the defense is still pretty "dumb". I think an owner still needs to set-up the right play calls. If you are in a 65% run defense vs a 70% passing team thats your mistake, but when a team has used the same throw in the same spot over and over the defense should be killing it. If you only throw Short, Medium and Long Shotgun the % of time the defense gets the call right should go up significantly. If you only run from 2 back sets, then its inside or outside, a defense would dominate that in the pros. Lastly pro teams dont throw deep as much as we do. We need to look at that and make 2nd or 3rd and 7 different than 2nd or 3rd and 14. 3rd and 7 is probably a 30-35%+ conversion. 3rd and 14 is probably like 10%. We are way over that right now and thats the part that matters, who cares how the substitute?
There is one other thing I see that I think merits some debate. Why have Shbo2 and Casper been so successful the last 10-12 seasons? They´ve had good QB´s yes, but they have both built strong offensive lines with good pass protectors. They stay balanced and give up very few sacks. But even more so they give up a lot less QB pressures. If you look at their teams they dont seem that great and they carry 10-12 offensive linemen. Thats how you win playoff games right now because a defense cant sell out to the pass or they will kill you on the ground. Its a very smart strategy. My only question here is do we put too much emphasis on the Strength attribute because for me it would seem this strategy is the closest anyone has come to actually gaming the system. I am not saying its wrong, I am just asking the question. Again they´ve had good QB´s, but their completion % on 20+ yard passes is 60%+ and they are throwing it deep a lot, 150-200 times per season. I think a 60% completion rate is high under any conditions and I wonder if building your team around very strong, 62-68 rated offensive linemen is conducive to a fun game and does it negate the difference between lower and higher rated players? An 80 rated OL should be a much better player than a 62 rated player, right now it doesnt seem there is that much difference, so whats the point of picking high in the draft? Maybe other OL attributes like EXE and AGL need to be weighted more.
I think Rich is right on the money here. I'm no programmer so this might be easier to say than to actually implement, but yeah, If I'm only passing out of the shotgun the defense should be "smart enough" to catch on pretty quickly. Whether that is dialing up the "keyed in" or whatever, but that is a pretty realistic solution. Like Rich said, it's all about disguising what you're doing and if you're making it obvious, like I have been there should be a more severe penalty.
As far as the o-line, Rich and I have talked about that a bit and I agree, it seems a big skewed toward strength. I can go heavy on carrying strong linemen to keep them fresh. A good o-line should have an impact, so I don't think it's a huge tweak that is needed, but it's worth looking at.
RichNYC1
August 05, 2014 at 07:49PM View BBCode
Sometimes I get off on a tangent or two, but I think sub issue has already been addressed and that we are just beating the dead horse. We need to concentrate on where we falling short and its not the subbing, its the actual game action that we are trying to improve.
sjpode
Strength is awesome, but how many players have failed because they were gym rats and too stiff to play positionally. There in lies the benefits of agility.
And as Al Davis used to say....speed kills.
A 98 rated speed guy, while being rare... can cause, or should cause a lot of mismatches.
:saint:
August 05, 2014 at 10:24PM View BBCode
Seems to me like EXE and AGL are the 2 most important aspects of every player regardless of position, third being attitude. Good EXE ratings would IMO give that player the edge against players of similar characteristics.Strength is awesome, but how many players have failed because they were gym rats and too stiff to play positionally. There in lies the benefits of agility.
And as Al Davis used to say....speed kills.
A 98 rated speed guy, while being rare... can cause, or should cause a lot of mismatches.
:saint:
Admin
3-4 defense isn't available yet. You see the formation because I have coded the formation but not the plays that go with it yet.
Chris
August 06, 2014 at 05:00PM View BBCode
The passing deep issue is partially due to a bug in the code; it shouldn't be happening still in beta.3-4 defense isn't available yet. You see the formation because I have coded the formation but not the plays that go with it yet.
Chris
shbo2
I agree 100% that it's kind of silly to be able to only run when the QB is under center and only pass out of the shotgun without any repercussions but "keying in" the defense or having advanced strategies to combat this may totally neuter offenses. Part of the issue imo is that it's a bit too easy getting an offense into a very favorable play call situation ie. having a good inside/outside running game mixed with long passes. If the defense loads up on run calls the deep pass will gash them, if the defense loads up on deep zone it will get steamrolled by the run. I think if it were possible to code the best solution would be to be able to set up the defensive game plan by having 1 set of plays for the front 7 and another for the secondary. This way a defense can somewhat game plan for a run or a deep pass in a specific down & distance.
As far as the o-line goes I agree sim is a bit too skewed in the direction of strength. I wonder if just getting rid of the pass block/run block rating all together and rolling those ratings into execution and having that play double duty might help make it harder to put together a great o-line, for the life of me I can't think of 1 player who was strong as an ox, had great feet(agility) and "technique" that was even marginally different between pass & run blocking.
August 06, 2014 at 07:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by casperthegm
Originally posted by RichNYC1
I dont understand why we are looking at this issue they way we are. This is not about using different linemen in different sets, NFL teams regularly use sub packages. Maybe they dont sub the whole offensive line, but its not really the issue in this case. We are so hung up (and I guess the engine is so dependent on) stamina levels that we are forgetting about how the NFL game really works. Pro offenses are based around their ability to disguise what they are doing so to leave the defense guessing. An offense that allows a defense to easily read "keys" is going to get smothered if all things are equal talent-wise, which they generally are in SD between teams with participating owners.
So its pretty simple, if you only throw out of shotgun why would the defense ever play the run vs that set? If you only run from 2 RB sets why would a defense ever play the pass vs that set? The way to end this issue, and a lot of other issues, is to make the defense more "intelligent". We already have the "keyed-in" programmed. We have the (easy) ability to scout the opponent through watching games or just by looking at the tremendous quantity of statistics that the game generates. Sadly, you cant make the defense do what you want it to do because, frankly, the defense is still pretty "dumb". I think an owner still needs to set-up the right play calls. If you are in a 65% run defense vs a 70% passing team thats your mistake, but when a team has used the same throw in the same spot over and over the defense should be killing it. If you only throw Short, Medium and Long Shotgun the % of time the defense gets the call right should go up significantly. If you only run from 2 back sets, then its inside or outside, a defense would dominate that in the pros. Lastly pro teams dont throw deep as much as we do. We need to look at that and make 2nd or 3rd and 7 different than 2nd or 3rd and 14. 3rd and 7 is probably a 30-35%+ conversion. 3rd and 14 is probably like 10%. We are way over that right now and thats the part that matters, who cares how the substitute?
There is one other thing I see that I think merits some debate. Why have Shbo2 and Casper been so successful the last 10-12 seasons? They´ve had good QB´s yes, but they have both built strong offensive lines with good pass protectors. They stay balanced and give up very few sacks. But even more so they give up a lot less QB pressures. If you look at their teams they dont seem that great and they carry 10-12 offensive linemen. Thats how you win playoff games right now because a defense cant sell out to the pass or they will kill you on the ground. Its a very smart strategy. My only question here is do we put too much emphasis on the Strength attribute because for me it would seem this strategy is the closest anyone has come to actually gaming the system. I am not saying its wrong, I am just asking the question. Again they´ve had good QB´s, but their completion % on 20+ yard passes is 60%+ and they are throwing it deep a lot, 150-200 times per season. I think a 60% completion rate is high under any conditions and I wonder if building your team around very strong, 62-68 rated offensive linemen is conducive to a fun game and does it negate the difference between lower and higher rated players? An 80 rated OL should be a much better player than a 62 rated player, right now it doesnt seem there is that much difference, so whats the point of picking high in the draft? Maybe other OL attributes like EXE and AGL need to be weighted more.
I think Rich is right on the money here. I'm no programmer so this might be easier to say than to actually implement, but yeah, If I'm only passing out of the shotgun the defense should be "smart enough" to catch on pretty quickly. Whether that is dialing up the "keyed in" or whatever, but that is a pretty realistic solution. Like Rich said, it's all about disguising what you're doing and if you're making it obvious, like I have been there should be a more severe penalty.
As far as the o-line, Rich and I have talked about that a bit and I agree, it seems a big skewed toward strength. I can go heavy on carrying strong linemen to keep them fresh. A good o-line should have an impact, so I don't think it's a huge tweak that is needed, but it's worth looking at.
I agree 100% that it's kind of silly to be able to only run when the QB is under center and only pass out of the shotgun without any repercussions but "keying in" the defense or having advanced strategies to combat this may totally neuter offenses. Part of the issue imo is that it's a bit too easy getting an offense into a very favorable play call situation ie. having a good inside/outside running game mixed with long passes. If the defense loads up on run calls the deep pass will gash them, if the defense loads up on deep zone it will get steamrolled by the run. I think if it were possible to code the best solution would be to be able to set up the defensive game plan by having 1 set of plays for the front 7 and another for the secondary. This way a defense can somewhat game plan for a run or a deep pass in a specific down & distance.
As far as the o-line goes I agree sim is a bit too skewed in the direction of strength. I wonder if just getting rid of the pass block/run block rating all together and rolling those ratings into execution and having that play double duty might help make it harder to put together a great o-line, for the life of me I can't think of 1 player who was strong as an ox, had great feet(agility) and "technique" that was even marginally different between pass & run blocking.
dirtdevil
I don't think it's too skewed to STR, I think that there's too often too large a discrepancy between the pass and run block skills. if I can get a bunch od A or A+ STR guys with A pass block and C run block in the fourth round and plug them into shotgun without negative impact, why wouldn't I? the best way to combat the 2OL idea, if we want to, is to remove the ability to designate OL in every formation. just give the OL one chart and continue to allow the high sub thresholds.
August 06, 2014 at 07:40PM View BBCode
Originally posted by shbo2
As far as the o-line goes I agree sim is a bit too skewed in the direction of strength. I wonder if just getting rid of the pass block/run block rating all together and rolling those ratings into execution and having that play double duty might help make it harder to put together a great o-line, for the life of me I can't think of 1 player who was strong as an ox, had great feet(agility) and "technique" that was even marginally different between pass & run blocking.
I don't think it's too skewed to STR, I think that there's too often too large a discrepancy between the pass and run block skills. if I can get a bunch od A or A+ STR guys with A pass block and C run block in the fourth round and plug them into shotgun without negative impact, why wouldn't I? the best way to combat the 2OL idea, if we want to, is to remove the ability to designate OL in every formation. just give the OL one chart and continue to allow the high sub thresholds.
casperthegm
[Edited on 8-6-2014 by casperthegm]
August 06, 2014 at 07:42PM View BBCode
You know, regarding the o-line and getting rid of the pass block/run block ratings, I'd be fine with it but I think we'd probably run into some resistance, with people saying it's "dumbing down" the sim. If we don't do that, maybe instead make it so there's more of a minor difference for run and pass blocking on the recruits that are generated. Instead of having guys come out as A+ pass block and C run block, just narrow those difference to something like A-/B+ or A-/B. Just throwing it out there...[Edited on 8-6-2014 by casperthegm]
shbo2
For me the main issue is, like you just pointed, that it's far too easy to find those wild split guys in the later rounds and build a team around them. Another idea is to just make high blocking skills very rare.
August 06, 2014 at 07:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by shbo2
As far as the o-line goes I agree sim is a bit too skewed in the direction of strength. I wonder if just getting rid of the pass block/run block rating all together and rolling those ratings into execution and having that play double duty might help make it harder to put together a great o-line, for the life of me I can't think of 1 player who was strong as an ox, had great feet(agility) and "technique" that was even marginally different between pass & run blocking.
I don't think it's too skewed to STR, I think that there's too often too large a discrepancy between the pass and run block skills. if I can get a bunch od A or A+ STR guys with A pass block and C run block in the fourth round and plug them into shotgun without negative impact, why wouldn't I? the best way to combat the 2OL idea, if we want to, is to remove the ability to designate OL in every formation. just give the OL one chart and continue to allow the high sub thresholds.
For me the main issue is, like you just pointed, that it's far too easy to find those wild split guys in the later rounds and build a team around them. Another idea is to just make high blocking skills very rare.
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