 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Off Topic » Kenyon Martin
skierdude44
This is great for Denver IMO. They get an intense defensive presence that can score on the fast break which is something the Nuggets like the Nets do very well. They have said that they will play him at the three and keep Nene at the 4 and Camby at the 5 and move Carmelo to the 2. They now have a good young nucleus and some size to compete in the West.
Kenyon Martin
July 15, 2004 at 06:41PM View BBCode
Apparantly the Nets are going to sign him to a 7 year 90 million dollar contract and trade him to the Nuggets for three future first rounders. This is an INCREDIBLY dumb move IMO. With Kidd, Martin, and Jefferson the Nets had a good trio that was continuing to improve. Martin and Jefferson are still young and have tremendous upside. Now they lose their best inside presence in Martin along with his rebounding and defense. They are also talking about trading Kittles and buying out the rest of Harris's contract. They may get some good players with those three future picks but Jason Kidd might not be around by then and Jefferson might be gone too.This is great for Denver IMO. They get an intense defensive presence that can score on the fast break which is something the Nuggets like the Nets do very well. They have said that they will play him at the three and keep Nene at the 4 and Camby at the 5 and move Carmelo to the 2. They now have a good young nucleus and some size to compete in the West.
robby
July 15, 2004 at 06:43PM View BBCode
i dont know if theyre ready to compete in the west yet. if they pick up a decent point guard and get another inside man then they should be good. too bad they got rid of theo ratliff...
youngallstar
[Edited on 7-15-2004 by youngallstar]
July 15, 2004 at 08:12PM View BBCode
Martin is overrated.............Good move for the nets[Edited on 7-15-2004 by youngallstar]
skierdude44
July 15, 2004 at 08:33PM View BBCode
I dont think so. Martin isnt a max player yet which is what they would have had to pay him so atleast that makes some sense but he was a very very good defensive player, a good offensive player, and a fiery competitor that got the crowd into it. And its not just the Martin trade that has me upset. They basically sold their 1st round pick for three million dollars in the last draft, that money was supposed to go towards re-signing K-mart but now it goes into Ratner's pocket. Kittles may be gone soon, Rogers is gone which weakens an already weak bench, Harris is gonna be cut further weakening the bench. Right now their bench is Aaron Williams, Zoran Planininc (god help us), Brian Scalabrine, and Brandon Armstrong. That is really crappy. Now they have no big men what so ever, Collins is the biggest waste of height I have ever seen. They are banking on their first round pick from three years ago coming over from Europe (he hasnt played in an NBA game yet and has been playing over in Europe) and stepping in to carry the ENTIRE load on the inside. The other thing is that we dont know what year these picks will be in. They could be a long ways from now. And those picks are not guaranteed studs either. They will probably be later first round picks because Denver will likely be competitive and with all the high schoolers they could be complete busts. The one good thing is that next offseason Kittles, Mourning, and Mutombo come off the cap giving them ton of money to throw out at free agents, but who knows if they will spend it. Jefferson is continuing to blossom but the scoring load is now put squarely on his shoulders. This is horrible for Nets fans. The team has been so bad for so long and finally when they start to compete a major cog in their gameplan is traded for nothing tangible.
ME
July 15, 2004 at 09:43PM View BBCode
After the Mutombo and Mourning fiascoes, NJ doesn't have the money to throw around and resign Martin. He's asking for too much money anyways. Good trade for them.
skierdude44
July 15, 2004 at 10:03PM View BBCode
I couldnt disagree more. They have no players besides Kidd and Jefferson. Martin is still young and in time could improve even more and become one of the game's elite fowards. He is undersized a bit but he brings intensity and a defensive presence that the Nets will sorely miss, not to mention the inside scoring he provided. This new ownership group seems to be a tightwad group that is just in it to make money. First they sell off their pick and now they let K-Mart walk and dont get anything tangible in return. They couldnt even negotiate getting Nene in return. The move to Brooklyn seems to be necessary because they arent making any money here in Jersey but to trade off one of their signature players. I thought that the trio of Jefferson, Kidd, and Martin would be around for a long time. They will probably take a huge hit in ticket sales next season as well because Martin was one of the reasons they were able to draw crowds. They may deal Kittles and Aaron Williams to Portland for Shareef Abdur-Rahim but they have lost some leverage in the deal now that they are desperate for a power foward and that would totally dismantle their weak bench. I thought if they got a decent center and strengthened their bench a bit they would have been very good in the East, but now they will be lucky to make it out of the first round. Kidd seems to be fine after his knee surgery because the surgery was on a non weight-bearing bone. But now their is talk of trading Kidd which in my mind would totally ruin the entire organization and cause them to take a huge hit in fan support.
ME
July 15, 2004 at 10:16PM View BBCode
They get 3 first round picks and save a ton of money. They weren't going to be good enough to win the East even with him considering how good Indiana and Detroit are.
youngallstar
July 15, 2004 at 10:38PM View BBCode
ME is right, who else of value could they get with Martin's huge contract getting in the way and Kids contract....no one. three first rounders for an overrated Martin is a good move.
skierdude44
July 15, 2004 at 10:39PM View BBCode
they came one game away from beating Detroit in the playoffs and if they improved their bench they would have had a legitamite shot. Martin and Jefferson are still very young anyways and are still improving. Now they save some money, but take a huge gamble with the three future picks and go back into mediocrity.
youngallstar
July 15, 2004 at 10:41PM View BBCode
the nets made it to the championship game without major contributions from Martin...right?
skierdude44
July 16, 2004 at 12:53AM View BBCode
He only averaged 19.1 ppg 11.0 rpg and 1.1 apg in the playoffs last year which was his best playoff performance ever. If you were wondering Rasheed Wallace averaged 13.0 ppg 7.8 rpg and 1.6 apg. Keep in mind these stats are throughout the whole playoffs last season. K-Mart averaged 16.7 ppg 9.3 rpg and .7 apg in that series against Detroit. Rasheed Wallace averaged 11.9 ppg 5.6 rpg and 1.1 apg in that same series. Those were his lowest totals in those three categories throughout the 2004 postseason and Kenyon Martin deserves most of the credit for that.
dawson
July 16, 2004 at 05:56PM View BBCode
I had the pleasure of watching Kenyon grow as a player at my beloved University of Cincinnati. I like him in Denver, good fit for both franchises.
skierdude44
July 16, 2004 at 06:52PM View BBCode
Denver I believe was actually first in fast break ppg last year and New Jersey was second so Kenyon definitely fits in with what they want to do there. I just think that it is an incredibly bad move for the Nets because now you have absolutely no big men. You have Jason Collins and their draft pick 2 years ago from Serbia on your front line. It also doesnt send a good message to Nets fans because he was a very fiery and intense player that was very good on both ends of the floor. Also you have the new owner coming in who has already planned to move the team out of New Jersey but now gets rid of one of the premier players on that team. Jason Kidd is also not happy at all about this because apparantly when he re-signed last year he was told that Kenyon, Richard, and himself would be together in New Jersey for a long time. This paints Ratner as a tightwad owner that really doesnt care about the New Jersey fans and is trying to transition the team over to Brooklyn. However, the team is over the cap as it is and their is no guarantee that Martin would be back if the old owenrship group was still hear and some of the local radio shows seem to think that Ratner didnt have much to do with this decision.
robby
July 16, 2004 at 07:24PM View BBCode
Why are you comparing Kenyon Martin to Rasheed Wallace? Rasheed Wallace is leaving too. He was a rent-a-player to make a minor improvement. He wasn't meant to be a franchise player like you're making Martin out to be. Besides, you say that a little bench support would have dont it for the Nets, they didn't have any money to get some bench support. All their money was going into Martin's wallet.
skierdude44
July 16, 2004 at 08:06PM View BBCode
Rasheed is re-signing with the Pistons and the point was people say that Martin cant compete with the top fowards. He cant shut down Duncan or Garnett but he can help and he can shut down the top fowards in the East.
arodtoo
July 16, 2004 at 09:09PM View BBCode
the nets couldn't afford to keep kidd, jefferson, and martin, jefferson will be demanding a max contract very soon, and they can't have Kidd, jefferson and martin on max contracts, they couldn't very well get rid of kidd and get fair value due to his age and contract, so they made the best out of a bad situation.
skierdude44
July 16, 2004 at 09:18PM View BBCode
Mourning and Mutombo come off the cap next season giving them huge cap relief. I dont know if Jefferson will demand a max deal either. They have said that they only think that their are about 10 players out there who are worthy of max contracts and those are the superstars like Kidd, Duncan and Garnett. Jefferson wants to stay with Kidd and wont demand the max. Its not just the trading of Martin that is dumb its that they got nothing in return that will help immediately. They get future draft picks with all kinds of conditions tied onto them and there is no telling if they will pan out to be anything. They couldnt even get Nene out of the deal.
arodtoo
July 16, 2004 at 09:28PM View BBCode
watch, jefferson will get a max contract, people always want young good talent, there might only 10 players DESERVING of mac contracts, but many more players will GET max contracts, if a team has cap space they want to land a impact player. And i wouldn't be suprised if kidd isn't nearly as good next year, he is getting up their with age and his injuries start to be piling up, and it will help make jefferson's decision easier, also jefferson will want to win, and if it is true that the nets want to cut payroll he will probably leave
skierdude44
July 16, 2004 at 10:21PM View BBCode
Jason Kidd is 31, its not like he is going to retire in a year or two. He is still the best point guard in the NBA. He just had successful surgery on a non weight-bearing bone in his knee. Its very minor and he will be fine. They have said that they are not in a cutting costs mode they just felt that with the current cap situation Martin was not worth the max. However after this season Mourning and Mutombo come off the cap and they plan to be big players in free agency with all the cap room they get.
arodtoo
July 17, 2004 at 03:58AM View BBCode
martin isn't worth a max contract, that just sounds like cost cutting talk. I mean you wnat to compete for a nba finals trophy you have to have big men, with players like Foyal and such getting 40 million becasue they are big, martin definitly was worth a max contract, especially considering the rarity of good young big men. I wouldn't be suprised to see a continuation of nets slashing payroll. I mean they traded away their 1st rounder for absolutly nothing(literally they dropped the player they recieved as compensation). I wouldn't ve suprised to see the nets not reach the playoffs, or get a very low seed, but of course due to the horrible talent in the east they probably will get into the playoffs
arodtoo
[Edited on 7-17-2004 by arodtoo]
July 17, 2004 at 04:03AM View BBCode
also mourning contract is a 4 year guranteed deal, so it doesn't come off next year, and mutombo isn't even on the team, so how will he be coming off the cap?[Edited on 7-17-2004 by arodtoo]
skierdude44
July 17, 2004 at 04:11AM View BBCode
Well, I wouldnt go that far. They wont make it far in the playoffs but they will make the playoffs. Richard Jefferson averaged 24.8 ppg while Kidd and Martin were injured. I agree that if Adonal Foyle is getting 40 million than Kenyon Martin at 90 million is not a insane proposition. But I agree with Rod Thorn when he says that max contracts should only be given to the top tier players. The Nets are about 8 million over the cap now and it would have cost them about 23 million to keep Martin this year and they would pay 7 or 8 million more in luxury tax, meaning it would cost 30 or 31 million to keep Martin. I think that it would be worth it to do that because after this season both Mutombo and Mourning come off the cap. Mutombo gives them 14 million in cap relief. Im not sure what Mourning's salary was but it will help out alot. They are not in a rebuilding mode they just didnt see Kenyon as being worth 31 million this season, which is understandable but looking at the long term Martin is only 26. He is still developing and is a beast inside defensively and brings a fiery passion and intensity that really gets the fans into it. He built a connection with the fans here by slamming his fists on the scorer's table, slapping the backboard, and running up and down the court screaming and getting the crowd into it. Thorn says that they are not done making moves this offseason though. Abdur-Rahim is a possibility and while he is not Martin he gives them atleast some inside presence. They aslo still have their mid level exception. What it came down to is was Kenyon Martin worth 31 million? They decided he wasnt but said that they are not in a cost cutting mode.
arodtoo
July 17, 2004 at 04:51AM View BBCode
MUTOMBO ISN"T ON THEIR ROSTER! and MOURNING DOESN"T COME OFF THEIR SALARY FOR 2 MORE YEARS! also a team not feeling a max contract is for more than 10 players is stupid, that is basically an exscuse, you keep the good young players you have if you want to win, and the price they go for is the price the market will bear, and obviosuly the market said kenyon was worth a max contract. If you let a 26 year old big man walk because you FEEL that max contracts only deserve to go to about 10 players than you are a horrible buissness man. Also some teams are predicting their won't be a luxury tax next year, which if true, will really make NJ look stupid.Pages: 1 2