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deanscubs
Breaking News, Sammy Sosa traded to O's
January 29, 2005 at 01:14AM View BBCode
Dave Kaplan on WGN radio in Chicago and ESPN Radio 1000 in Chicago are reporting Sosa has been delt to the O's for 4 minor leaguers. Kaplan says they are ironing out the details and a formal announcement will come soon or by Monday at the latest. No word yet on who the minor leaguers might be.
hobos
I've now heard that Hairston is in fact part of the trade. Guess we'll know for sure by Monday
[Edited on 1-29-2005 by hobos]
January 29, 2005 at 01:17AM View BBCode
Great news for the Cubs, but they still need a RF. They would have been better off getting hairston plus a minor leaguern or two. I guess that Chicago is the favorite to be Maggs' new teamI've now heard that Hairston is in fact part of the trade. Guess we'll know for sure by Monday
[Edited on 1-29-2005 by hobos]
Cubsfan13
January 29, 2005 at 01:31AM View BBCode
Awesome. The big question is how much of Sosa's contract the Cubs have to pay.
hobos
January 29, 2005 at 04:07AM View BBCode
Hairston and prospects is pretty much guarunteed according to AP. The Cubs will pay a "substantial portion" of Sosa's $17 million salary, and Sosa will void his 2006 slary (which would become guarunteed if he was traded)
ME
January 29, 2005 at 04:29AM View BBCode
If those other prospects all suck, it's an ok move, otherwise, it's a dumb one.
hobos
As of right now, Hendry is denying any deal is close, but Orioles officials are claiming physicals are the only remaining obstacle.
January 29, 2005 at 04:55AM View BBCode
They should be Mike Fontenot and Dave Crouthers. Baseball America ranks them the Orioles' 7th and 10th best prospects respectively.As of right now, Hendry is denying any deal is close, but Orioles officials are claiming physicals are the only remaining obstacle.
Smocko
The Orioles add another slugger, and a huge untradable contract. You can't hit your way out of third place, not in this division.
January 29, 2005 at 05:23AM View BBCode
Bad trade for both teams. The Cubs lose the heart of their team, and a hall-of-famer (he may be disgruntled, but he's Sammy Sosa, and could hit 50 home runs in Camden Yards), and get prospects. That's a great way to improve on a team that underachieved last year, losing Sosa and Clement and not signing a closer.The Orioles add another slugger, and a huge untradable contract. You can't hit your way out of third place, not in this division.
hobos
1. Ponson, Bedard, Cabrera, Lopez and whichever other young SP makes the team somehow all have have an ERA under 3.00, more than 200 Ks each, fewer than 40 BBs each, and fewer than 20 HRs each
2. A fiery bus accident kills every member of the Yankees and Red Sox 25 man roster before the season
January 29, 2005 at 05:41AM View BBCode
The Orioles could place higher than 3rd in two scenarios:1. Ponson, Bedard, Cabrera, Lopez and whichever other young SP makes the team somehow all have have an ERA under 3.00, more than 200 Ks each, fewer than 40 BBs each, and fewer than 20 HRs each
2. A fiery bus accident kills every member of the Yankees and Red Sox 25 man roster before the season
arodtoo
January 29, 2005 at 06:27AM View BBCode
if option 2 happened, the orioles would still find a way to not get higher than 3rd, thye owuld sitll get 3rd, d-rays and blyue jays would place 1-2
deanscubs
But not too far before the season or Stienbrenner and Henry would have time to get into a bidding war for Cuba's national team.
January 29, 2005 at 07:20AM View BBCode
Originally posted by hobos
The Orioles could place higher than 3rd in two scenarios:
2. A fiery bus accident kills every member of the Yankees and Red Sox 25 man roster before the season
But not too far before the season or Stienbrenner and Henry would have time to get into a bidding war for Cuba's national team.
Lovechop
January 29, 2005 at 08:42AM View BBCode
I think that this is a great move for the Cubs. They are getting rid of a huge contract and will hopefully make a few more moves before the season begins. Also by getting rid of Sosa you are getting rid of a club house cancer. After Prior called him out, there was no way that the bridges weren't burnt for good. If they do get Hairston in the deal they will have a lead-off hitter, who also doesn't strike out a lot.
PackerMachine
The O's with another desperate looking move! Big suprise there. They're only hope is too have their young pitching come of age and either the Yankees or Sox fall apart and somehow slip into the wild card.
If there is any good talent going the Cubs way the O's GM should be fired. Sosa is done. Been overated for at least 2 years and was never as good as he was made out to be.
January 29, 2005 at 04:18PM View BBCode
Great trade for the Cubs. They get rid of a player in the last year or 2, maybe even less of his useful career. He may hang around and get AB's but they won't be useful ones except for maybe a PH or spot starter off the bench for a contender, ala Ruben Sierra.The O's with another desperate looking move! Big suprise there. They're only hope is too have their young pitching come of age and either the Yankees or Sox fall apart and somehow slip into the wild card.
If there is any good talent going the Cubs way the O's GM should be fired. Sosa is done. Been overated for at least 2 years and was never as good as he was made out to be.
abarkov
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8142226
January 29, 2005 at 04:23PM View BBCode
I think this was a desparate move by Baltimore who's only move all winter before this was to sign Steve Kline. Although the trades not officially completed this story closely matches what I hear on WSCR last night.http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8142226
lvnwrth
As for him hiting 50 HR in Camden Yards, I suppose Sammy could have a late career renaissance wherever he goes. But Camden Yards isn't going to help him, relative to Wrigley Field. They are about the same in terms of their affects on the game, with Wrigley being a slightly better hitters park.
January 29, 2005 at 07:10PM View BBCode
I agree with the last comment. After missing out on every free agent they've pursued this winter, the O's had to do something to make a splash. Sosa is 36 years old and his numbers have declined each of the last three seasons. This is a bad deal for the O's on the field, but they were looking for someone to keep fans from checking out the Nationals, and Sosa should put paying butts in seats.As for him hiting 50 HR in Camden Yards, I suppose Sammy could have a late career renaissance wherever he goes. But Camden Yards isn't going to help him, relative to Wrigley Field. They are about the same in terms of their affects on the game, with Wrigley being a slightly better hitters park.
ABDREW
January 30, 2005 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Without reading any of the above posts, I just have to say that I think this will end up being a bad move for the Orioles. They are like the Rangers of the east. Alot of bats but no pitching. I a division where you have great pitching already that ain't going to cut it. I predict they finish 4th and possibly last in the AL East
skierdude44
I thought it was funny when I woke up this morning, flipped on ESPN and heard about this. ME had been talking about how the Orioles were being smart by not overpaying for players and Duff had been talking about how he wanted them to make a big move but found some condolence in the fact that they weren't just spending money for the hell of it and then this happens. You really have to question the thought process of the Orioles' front office.
They dropped out of the Carl Pavano race. Pavano is coming off of an 18-8 season where he posted an era of 3.00 and is only 28 which would fit in great with the young talent they already have. On the other hand Pavano has a low strikeout rate and has been inconsistent throughout his career and in order to land him they would have had to outbid the Yankees. ]
They dropped out of the Tim Hudson race. Hudson is a perenial Cy Young candidate in his late twenties but also is a free agent at the end of the year and will likely be very expensive to keep.
They dropped out of the Carlos Delgado race. Delgado has hit 30+ homers each of the last 8 years and at times may be one of the top 5 hitters in the league. On the down side he is 32 and might only be around for the short term.
Each of those three guys would have been better moves than Sosa. They each have risks but the reward is much higher than Sosa.
January 30, 2005 at 01:40AM View BBCode
Depending on what prospects are traded and how much Chicago picks up of Sosa's salary will determine how bad this move actually is. It is a bad move either way but I guess if they don't give up any decent prospects and the Cubs pick up most of Sosa's tab then it could be a decent move. I mean if you can get Sammy Sosa cheap and someone else is paying him he is worth a shot right? And the name recognition will help them fend off the Nationals... However if they trade decent prospects and have to pay a good sized portion of Sosa's salary it is a pretty bad deal.I thought it was funny when I woke up this morning, flipped on ESPN and heard about this. ME had been talking about how the Orioles were being smart by not overpaying for players and Duff had been talking about how he wanted them to make a big move but found some condolence in the fact that they weren't just spending money for the hell of it and then this happens. You really have to question the thought process of the Orioles' front office.
They dropped out of the Carl Pavano race. Pavano is coming off of an 18-8 season where he posted an era of 3.00 and is only 28 which would fit in great with the young talent they already have. On the other hand Pavano has a low strikeout rate and has been inconsistent throughout his career and in order to land him they would have had to outbid the Yankees. ]
They dropped out of the Tim Hudson race. Hudson is a perenial Cy Young candidate in his late twenties but also is a free agent at the end of the year and will likely be very expensive to keep.
They dropped out of the Carlos Delgado race. Delgado has hit 30+ homers each of the last 8 years and at times may be one of the top 5 hitters in the league. On the down side he is 32 and might only be around for the short term.
Each of those three guys would have been better moves than Sosa. They each have risks but the reward is much higher than Sosa.
ME
January 30, 2005 at 01:46AM View BBCode
A big contract, long term contract to any of those players would have been very risky.
hobos
January 30, 2005 at 02:03AM View BBCode
These aren't guarunteed yet, but the prospects are suppose to be Fontenot (24 yr old 2B), and Crouthers (25 yr old RP), so no huge loss there. The Cubs will supposedly pay $10 million of Sosa's $17 million, and Sosa is suppose to void the $18 million for 2006 guarunteed if he's traded, and the $4.5 option for 2007. The Cubs will either (A) sign Burnitz, (B) play DuBois, (C) do both a and b and bench Hairston, or (D) send Fontenot and Crouthers and other actual prospects for another OF.
lvnwrth
But as you pointed out in your opening comment, the risk involved with Sosa may be almost nothing. If the prospects are marginal guys and the Cubs eat a good chunk of his salary, what's the risk on the O's part?
They aren't going to pass Boston or New York anyway... weren't going to, even if they signed Pavano or Hudson or Delgadao. So, they might as well make a move that puts paying fans in the seats, regardless of their won-loss record. I still can't think of too many guys who will do that better than Sosa.
I stand by what I said in my first post on the topic: Bad move for the Orioles on the field, but a completely understandable move from a box office point of view.
January 30, 2005 at 02:10AM View BBCode
Originally posted by skierdude44
Depending on what prospects are traded and how much Chicago picks up of Sosa's salary will determine how bad this move actually is....
Each of those three guys (Pavano, Hudson, Delgado) would have been better moves than Sosa. They each have risks but the reward is much higher than Sosa.
But as you pointed out in your opening comment, the risk involved with Sosa may be almost nothing. If the prospects are marginal guys and the Cubs eat a good chunk of his salary, what's the risk on the O's part?
They aren't going to pass Boston or New York anyway... weren't going to, even if they signed Pavano or Hudson or Delgadao. So, they might as well make a move that puts paying fans in the seats, regardless of their won-loss record. I still can't think of too many guys who will do that better than Sosa.
I stand by what I said in my first post on the topic: Bad move for the Orioles on the field, but a completely understandable move from a box office point of view.
skierdude44
And ME, yes a long term contract would have been risky to any of those other players I mentioned but there is a certain amount of risk in any long term contract. And are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't give a long term contract to Tim Hudson? I think that the reward outweighs the risk there. Same with Delgado... I mean he has hit 30+ homers every year for the last 8 years. That's pretty consistent.
January 30, 2005 at 02:24AM View BBCode
That is true but that too could also back fire if Sosa bombs out by mid season. Any of the other players could have achieved the same goal and maybe had the Orioles in contention in a few years. Also what happens beyond this year. Sosa is only a short term cosmetic fix but next year they are in the same position as they were before this trade. But considering the prospects that they are expected to give up and that Chicago is picking up 10 mill it isn't too bad.And ME, yes a long term contract would have been risky to any of those other players I mentioned but there is a certain amount of risk in any long term contract. And are you honestly telling me that you wouldn't give a long term contract to Tim Hudson? I think that the reward outweighs the risk there. Same with Delgado... I mean he has hit 30+ homers every year for the last 8 years. That's pretty consistent.
lvnwrth
No one's going to make sure they see Carl Pavano or Tim Hudson pitch just because they have the chance. And even if they did, those guys are a drawing card one day out of five. No one's going to change plans to see Carlos Delgado play...they're just not.
I live in KC now, and in the last ten years there have been exactly three guys on visiting teams that caused me to change plans to see them play...Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken, and Sammy Sosa. Some other guys I've had the chance to see because I had tickets already, etc. But these are the only three guys who I changed plans on game day, just to catch their act.
Even if Sosa sucks, people will still keep coming out until at least July 4, just to see if he's going to snap out of it. And as I understand it, Sosa has agreed to void the 2006 option in his contract? If that's true, then the O's are only on the hook for one year, with Chicago footing a good bit of the tab. With those other guys, they're paying the full bill for five, six, seven years. And nice as they are, none of those guys was a difference maker for a team stuck in a division with the Yanks and Bosox.
January 30, 2005 at 02:45AM View BBCode
I disagree that any of the others could have done the same thing, speaking of box office effect.No one's going to make sure they see Carl Pavano or Tim Hudson pitch just because they have the chance. And even if they did, those guys are a drawing card one day out of five. No one's going to change plans to see Carlos Delgado play...they're just not.
I live in KC now, and in the last ten years there have been exactly three guys on visiting teams that caused me to change plans to see them play...Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken, and Sammy Sosa. Some other guys I've had the chance to see because I had tickets already, etc. But these are the only three guys who I changed plans on game day, just to catch their act.
Even if Sosa sucks, people will still keep coming out until at least July 4, just to see if he's going to snap out of it. And as I understand it, Sosa has agreed to void the 2006 option in his contract? If that's true, then the O's are only on the hook for one year, with Chicago footing a good bit of the tab. With those other guys, they're paying the full bill for five, six, seven years. And nice as they are, none of those guys was a difference maker for a team stuck in a division with the Yanks and Bosox.
skierdude44
And while right now the Yanks and Sox have a strangle hold on the division that may not last forever. As of right now only one of the Yankee regulars is under 30, A-rod who turns 30 in the middle of the season. And the Yankees have shown that even they have a limit when they dropped out of the Beltran race. Next year they will have committed about 130 mill to just 7 players. The Sox are no better either. They are in a constant state of trying to dump Ramirez' salary despite his tremendous production and they are almost as depleted in the farm system as the Yankees. Their best player is in his late 30's and is coming off a fairly serious ankle injury and they just lost possibly the best pitcher of the last decade to free agency.
January 30, 2005 at 02:59AM View BBCode
Sammy Sosa has more name recognition than any of the other guys that they could have gotten, but that's about it. Most knowledgeable baseball fans know that Sosa is winding down and is washed up and many suspect that he used steroids and that his achievements are tainted. So yes a lot more casual fans how remember Sosa from the historic homerun chase with McGwire will come out but a person who has followed Sosa knows he is pretty much done and that if you go see him now you aren't going to see anything special. Maybe if your lucky you'll catch him on a day where he pulls a Canseco and the ball bounces off his head or you'll catch one of his "violent" sneezing fits where he throws his back out. A player like Delgado would definitely bring the fans out and he would actually produce. Even a Hudson would be able to generate some excitement. Granted he doesn't play every day so his impact on ticket sales is not as great but their is still the chance of winning in the future that will bring fans out.And while right now the Yanks and Sox have a strangle hold on the division that may not last forever. As of right now only one of the Yankee regulars is under 30, A-rod who turns 30 in the middle of the season. And the Yankees have shown that even they have a limit when they dropped out of the Beltran race. Next year they will have committed about 130 mill to just 7 players. The Sox are no better either. They are in a constant state of trying to dump Ramirez' salary despite his tremendous production and they are almost as depleted in the farm system as the Yankees. Their best player is in his late 30's and is coming off a fairly serious ankle injury and they just lost possibly the best pitcher of the last decade to free agency.
FuriousGiorge
This move is okay for the O's. They haven't given up much in terms of players or prospects. Sammy isn't anywhere near the player he used to be, but at least the organization says to the fans "we're giving you a big name". Sure, what we'd really like is a winner, but that ain't gonna be found on the free agent market either way for this team, so at least management went out and acquired a name to appease the fans.
[Edited on 1-30-2005 by FuriousGiorge]
January 30, 2005 at 03:04AM View BBCode
I'm not entirely sure that Sosa can still act as much of a drawing card, but the point you make (lvnwrth) is valid. There are a vanishingly small number of players who will put fans in the seats regardless of the team on the field. Bonds, the Big Unit, Pujols (or, at least, he should), maybe Pedro. There are probably a few more, but the number is very small. The idea that Pavano would be worth a big money deal because he could put fans in the seats is ludicrous - even if he repeats his success from last year, no one is going to go to Camden Yards just because Carl Pavano is pitching.This move is okay for the O's. They haven't given up much in terms of players or prospects. Sammy isn't anywhere near the player he used to be, but at least the organization says to the fans "we're giving you a big name". Sure, what we'd really like is a winner, but that ain't gonna be found on the free agent market either way for this team, so at least management went out and acquired a name to appease the fans.
[Edited on 1-30-2005 by FuriousGiorge]
PackerMachine
Doesn't matter who the prospects are or how much the Cubs are picking up on salary.
Plus with Sosa moving to a new league after all these years he'll see different pitchers that he doesn't know. Wouldn't be suprised if he's hitting .220 with 10 HR at the all star break and the Orioles are looking to dump him to a contender or sitting him on the bench completly.
And with Sosa's attitude sitting him on the bench will not go over well with him. Could blow up in the O's face completely and be bad no matter how many fans he puts in the seats.
January 30, 2005 at 08:58AM View BBCode
Bottom line on all this after reading all the posts is this. if Baltimore is just using the Sosa name to put people in the seats and fend off the Nationals then they might as well be the Pirates, Royals, Brewers or any other small market team. There is no way you bring in a Sosa type player when you don't have a shot to win this year and have Sosa take AB's away from a younger player to develop him and get him experience.Doesn't matter who the prospects are or how much the Cubs are picking up on salary.
Plus with Sosa moving to a new league after all these years he'll see different pitchers that he doesn't know. Wouldn't be suprised if he's hitting .220 with 10 HR at the all star break and the Orioles are looking to dump him to a contender or sitting him on the bench completly.
And with Sosa's attitude sitting him on the bench will not go over well with him. Could blow up in the O's face completely and be bad no matter how many fans he puts in the seats.
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