 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » People say dumb things
ME
-some idiot on ESPN
People say dumb things
February 08, 2005 at 01:32AM View BBCode
"If Tom Brady retired tomorrow, he would be a first ballot hall of famer"-some idiot on ESPN
youngallstar
February 08, 2005 at 02:55AM View BBCode
Brady has a good shot at making the hall of fame but he needs more years under his belt.
skierdude44
February 08, 2005 at 12:35PM View BBCode
Would he still be a first ballot HOFer if he never again threw for over 3000 yards, and threw vastly more interceptions than touchdowns for the next 7 years? No. He may not even be a HoFer if he did that. And to be honest even if he continues his pace I'm not sure if he is a HOFer. Sure the numbers are good but there are a lot of people with good numbers out there but the Hall is for people with great numbers. And yes three Super Bowl rings in 4 years is an impressive statistic but it is a TEAM statistic. Does Tedy Bruschi deserve to be a first ballot HOFer too? I mean he also has three rings, was a vital part of New England's wins and plays middle linebacker which is like the quarterback of the defense. No probably not because he is a good, not great player. All of that being said Tom Brady probably would make the HoF if he retired today because the writers have a love affair with him.
abarkov
February 08, 2005 at 03:31PM View BBCode
COuld you identify the idiot on ESPN. My belief is that ESPN is filled with idiots.
Meathead44
"so overrated. They can't even kick ass in the Super Bowl, they have to get lucky and barely win."
February 08, 2005 at 03:51PM View BBCode
Here's a great one too about the Patriots....I can't remember where I read it. ;)"so overrated. They can't even kick ass in the Super Bowl, they have to get lucky and barely win."
andrew
Skier, I do agree wholeheartedly with you post on the other thread about football being a team game and everyones preformance depends on another, but there is just one thing. QB is THE most important postion on the field. That is why Brady will easily make the HOF if he keeps on winning (certainly not yet).
We all know the saying, 'QBs get too much credit for wins, and too much blame for losses.' Well that is true, but if anything in football can be put on one player then the QB is that player. They, and the center, are the only players who touch the ball 1/2 of the plays, and they need to be in control of the team emotionally (a huge part of running an offense in football). So comparing a teams QB to any other postion doesn't really work in saying "they both have 3 rings," because, I'm sorry, the QB did have more to do with those rings. A lot more.
AND HOLD THE F-ING PHONE!!!
Who was posting here about how one player single handedly lost their favorite teams playoff game about 4 weeks ago?
;)
February 08, 2005 at 05:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by skierdude44
Does Tedy Bruschi deserve to be a first ballot HOFer too?
Skier, I do agree wholeheartedly with you post on the other thread about football being a team game and everyones preformance depends on another, but there is just one thing. QB is THE most important postion on the field. That is why Brady will easily make the HOF if he keeps on winning (certainly not yet).
We all know the saying, 'QBs get too much credit for wins, and too much blame for losses.' Well that is true, but if anything in football can be put on one player then the QB is that player. They, and the center, are the only players who touch the ball 1/2 of the plays, and they need to be in control of the team emotionally (a huge part of running an offense in football). So comparing a teams QB to any other postion doesn't really work in saying "they both have 3 rings," because, I'm sorry, the QB did have more to do with those rings. A lot more.
AND HOLD THE F-ING PHONE!!!
Who was posting here about how one player single handedly lost their favorite teams playoff game about 4 weeks ago?
;)
skierdude44
February 08, 2005 at 08:17PM View BBCode
My point about Bruschi is that middle linebacker is like the quarterback of the defense. Yes, you are right that the quarterback is the most important player on a football team, but it is not impossible to win when your QB has a bad game (hell the Patriots did it earlier this year in a game where Brady went something like 4-12 for 80 yards). But anyway my point is that Super Bowl rings do not measure individual achievement, they measure team achievement and every player, even the reserves and special teamers get a ring.
Meathead44
February 08, 2005 at 08:31PM View BBCode
Rings do matter in Hall of Fame consideration for all positions. At the very least, the notoriaty that comes with winning Super Bowls contributes. I saw Jack Ham interviewed recently and he claimed that there was absolutely no way he would be in the Hall if the Steelers hadn't won those Super Bowls. It certainly seems to push those marginal or borderline players to be alot more attractive than those that haven't.
skierdude44
February 08, 2005 at 08:43PM View BBCode
Well of course they matter in the voting now because the sports writers who are in love with Tom Brady and his three Super Bowl rings are the ones who do the voting. But the fact of the matter is SB rings are in no way an accurate measure of individual achievement and performance.
1tim412
That's why Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have SB rings while better QBs like Culpepper and Manning don't, right?
February 09, 2005 at 12:22AM View BBCode
Originally posted by andrew
Originally posted by skierdude44
Does Tedy Bruschi deserve to be a first ballot HOFer too?
QB is THE most important postion on the field. That is why Brady will easily make the HOF if he keeps on winning (certainly not yet).
That's why Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have SB rings while better QBs like Culpepper and Manning don't, right?
ME
February 09, 2005 at 12:39AM View BBCode
There are a number players in the hall of fame that don't deserve to be there simply because of the Super Bowl. They were good players but not great or even very good, but because they played on good teams, they are immortalized.
ABDREW
That being said I thik we all can agree that Joe Montana belongs in the HOF, correct? Ok now go look at Bradys stats after 4 years and then Montanas after 4 years. Very comparible but guess you has the edge?
Also I don't know how you can not include winning into gauging one career. Thats the whole point of athletic competition. To win. Some people just have a knack for doing what in take to do just so. You won't see it on any fantasy forum or stat sheet but it makes them better.
February 09, 2005 at 02:18AM View BBCode
Ok here we go. At this point Brady isn't a lock for the HOF, close but he needs to do it over a span of more years.That being said I thik we all can agree that Joe Montana belongs in the HOF, correct? Ok now go look at Bradys stats after 4 years and then Montanas after 4 years. Very comparible but guess you has the edge?
Also I don't know how you can not include winning into gauging one career. Thats the whole point of athletic competition. To win. Some people just have a knack for doing what in take to do just so. You won't see it on any fantasy forum or stat sheet but it makes them better.
1tim412
Yeah, if this was one-on-one tennis or wrestling we were talking about, yeah, then it's about winning, but it's not. It is an 11 player sport with an offense and a defense. Brady is only 1/23 (adding Vinatieri to the mix) of the reason they have 3 SB rings. So consequently if we are giving individual "responsibility" for wins, the only way to give it out is divide it by 23 so Brady is actually 9/23-0 in the playoffs so Brady has 3-4 wins under his belt in his career. A lot of people put in 110% to get the win and you are only giving Brady the credit? How about Harrison's 2 INTs in the SB? Or Asante Samuel's INT in the end zone? That was the difference in the game right there. Take away that INT and there is no dynasty. Or how about Adam Vinatieri making 2 FGs to tie and win in the snow in 2001-2002? Or I suppose Brady could have done just as well. And then Mike Vrabel in last year's SB with the 2 sacks and the FF that was recovered by the Richard Seymour meant nothing? Brady is surrounded by loads of talent who know the meaning of the word "team." That is why the Patriots win. It is because they are a team. So give them credit as a team. You can't say Brady knows how to win because ever since he was in the league, he's been on a loaded team. What was NE's record in 2002? What? 7-9? Brady didn't get them to the playoffs? But nobody hears about that, they just seem to overlook it. The fact is that Brady's stats aren't all that great. He is consistently 9 or 10 in the NFL in QB rating the last 3 years. How is that HoF?
February 09, 2005 at 05:26AM View BBCode
Originally posted by ABDREW
Also I don't know how you can not include winning into gauging one career. Thats the whole point of athletic competition. To win. Some people just have a knack for doing what in take to do just so. You won't see it on any fantasy forum or stat sheet but it makes them better.
Yeah, if this was one-on-one tennis or wrestling we were talking about, yeah, then it's about winning, but it's not. It is an 11 player sport with an offense and a defense. Brady is only 1/23 (adding Vinatieri to the mix) of the reason they have 3 SB rings. So consequently if we are giving individual "responsibility" for wins, the only way to give it out is divide it by 23 so Brady is actually 9/23-0 in the playoffs so Brady has 3-4 wins under his belt in his career. A lot of people put in 110% to get the win and you are only giving Brady the credit? How about Harrison's 2 INTs in the SB? Or Asante Samuel's INT in the end zone? That was the difference in the game right there. Take away that INT and there is no dynasty. Or how about Adam Vinatieri making 2 FGs to tie and win in the snow in 2001-2002? Or I suppose Brady could have done just as well. And then Mike Vrabel in last year's SB with the 2 sacks and the FF that was recovered by the Richard Seymour meant nothing? Brady is surrounded by loads of talent who know the meaning of the word "team." That is why the Patriots win. It is because they are a team. So give them credit as a team. You can't say Brady knows how to win because ever since he was in the league, he's been on a loaded team. What was NE's record in 2002? What? 7-9? Brady didn't get them to the playoffs? But nobody hears about that, they just seem to overlook it. The fact is that Brady's stats aren't all that great. He is consistently 9 or 10 in the NFL in QB rating the last 3 years. How is that HoF?
ABDREW
You're joking right? Maybe that whats wrong with the Raiders and A's then, someone told them the whole point of sports was to put up great stats and look good.
Also you know that the QB position is the most important on the filed and holds meaning besides any stat that can be out up. To give Vinatieri and others as much credit for most wins is insane. Yes Brady doesn't win games alone noone has ever said that but there are reason that people who know a whole lot more about football than you, I or anyone on this site call him a top 5 NFL QB and a future HOF'er.
If you're going to be too thickheaded to listen to al this then there really is no point in this conversation because youor just having it to agrue and not listening to what anyone else really has to say
February 09, 2005 at 08:13AM View BBCode
Originally posted by 1tim412
[quote
Yeah, if this was one-on-one tennis or wrestling we were talking about, yeah, then it's about winning, but it's not.
You're joking right? Maybe that whats wrong with the Raiders and A's then, someone told them the whole point of sports was to put up great stats and look good.
Also you know that the QB position is the most important on the filed and holds meaning besides any stat that can be out up. To give Vinatieri and others as much credit for most wins is insane. Yes Brady doesn't win games alone noone has ever said that but there are reason that people who know a whole lot more about football than you, I or anyone on this site call him a top 5 NFL QB and a future HOF'er.
If you're going to be too thickheaded to listen to al this then there really is no point in this conversation because youor just having it to agrue and not listening to what anyone else really has to say
jetpac
It was 9-7, anyway
February 10, 2005 at 01:57AM View BBCode
Originally posted by 1tim412
What was NE's record in 2002? What? 7-9? Brady didn't get them to the playoffs?
It was 9-7, anyway
ABDREW
Thats correct, they missed the playoffs on the 3rd tie breaker to the Jets
February 10, 2005 at 01:59AM View BBCode
Originally posted by jetpac
Originally posted by 1tim412
What was NE's record in 2002? What? 7-9? Brady didn't get them to the playoffs?
It was 9-7, anyway
Thats correct, they missed the playoffs on the 3rd tie breaker to the Jets
andrew
No, no, no, no, no. In baseball this works, every player has the same number of chances to come up in the big situation so you can say they are 1/9th of the team, but in football (much like in basketball) some players touch the ball more and ARE more important. It is true that a QB gets a lot of help from his running game, o-line, recievers and even defence, but when it comes down to it, he has to make the throws, and he is the guy in the huddle keeping everyone composed.
February 10, 2005 at 02:43AM View BBCode
Originally posted by 1tim412
Brady is only 1/23 (adding Vinatieri to the mix) of the reason they have 3 SB rings.
No, no, no, no, no. In baseball this works, every player has the same number of chances to come up in the big situation so you can say they are 1/9th of the team, but in football (much like in basketball) some players touch the ball more and ARE more important. It is true that a QB gets a lot of help from his running game, o-line, recievers and even defence, but when it comes down to it, he has to make the throws, and he is the guy in the huddle keeping everyone composed.
whiskybear
February 10, 2005 at 03:07AM View BBCode
Tim is really aspiring to the title of this thread with some of those comments. Yowza!
skierdude44
This season against Miami he threw a pass while going down to the ground in the arms of a Dolphins' defender and the pass was picked off which eventually led to points for the Dolphins and a loss for The Pats. He threw a pass very similar to that one a few weeks before but it was completed to Patrick Pass for a small gain because Pass was WIDE OPEN at the time. People praised his awareness and smarts when he made that throw when in reality he probably should have just ate the ball and took the sack. Completing it to pass was just dumb luck.
Lawyer Milloy said prior to the Super Bowl that a lot of the Patriots players probably could get a good deal more money to play for another team but they have bought into Belichick and his winning concept. There are a lot of really good players on that team and that coaching staff (Belichick and his coordinators) was probably one of the best in history. People say that besides Brady and Dillon there are no Pro Bowlers on the Patriots this year which is true, but a few years ago Troy Brown was a Pro Bowler and now is the 4th receiver. That could mean a variety of things but one conclusion that you could draw from that is that they have a very deep receiving corps. I mean we would all love to have a Pro Bowl fourth receiver. And let's not forget about how talented Deion Branch is. He missed some time this year and if he had played a full season he might be on his way to Hawaii too. He was huge in the Super Bowl and without him Brady would have had to make a lot more tough throws and the Eagles' secondary would have probably made more of an impact.
Brady is a good QB. He plays for a GREAT team. The success of the team does not ride on his soldiers as much as it does for some of the other QB's in the league like a Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb (pre-Terrell Owens). If Manning has an off day, thats it the Colts are done. The only thing that they can hope to do is have Edge tear you up and hope that their defense can make some tackles (which is easier said than done). McNabb made it to the Super Bowl this year without Terrell Owens. His receivers were Todd Stinkston and Freddie Mitchell who's only asset is his mouth which is good for a laugh or two but that's all. In the three previous years McNabb had James Thrash who I believe is out of football now. His supporting cast on offense has been worse than Brady's for 3 out of the last 4 years. When healthy Terrell Owens probably is the best receiver in the league and that helps out a lot but look at the playoffs this year to see what a good QB McNabb is. And according to Hank Fraley he was sick to his stomach during that game. Donovan denies that report and does not want to make excuses so we really don't know what is the truth but if he was sick his performance was pretty damn good considering the circumstances. Yes he threw three interceptions but one was a great play by Bruschi and another one hit his receiver in the hands and got tipped to Harrison. Donovan gets credited with the interception but the one tipped to Harrison should be on the receiver and the other was just a really nice play by a really good MLB.
To argue that Brady sucks or is just average is absurd. Obviously he isn't because he puts up very nice numbers year in and year out. Tom Brady plays for a great team that is the best ever at finding and developing talent. David Patten was originally drafted by the Giants. He was cut by them because they thought that he couldn't play. I saw him play for the Giants and he didn't look to be any good. Apparently Belichick saw something that everyone else missed and brought him in. Now he is a quality receiver (not an all pro by any stretch of the imagination but he is not bad either). That is just one example of what the Patriots scouting and coaching staff can do. The three Super Bowl rings are proof of how good a team they really are. To win a Super Bowl you need to be very good all around and alittle lucky. There were some plays in their Super Bowl runs where they made a mistake but then the rest of the team picked up whoever made the mistake and they overcame it. That is what is different about the Patriots. They all pick eachother up and don't get down. If Peyton Manning throws an interception then it is up to his defense to pick him up and they can't do it. If Tom Brady throws an intercepton most likely Rodney Harrison or Tedy Bruschi or one of those guys is gonna rally the defensive troops and they are gonna go out and pick up their QB.
February 10, 2005 at 12:47PM View BBCode
Tim is alittle extreme but he does have some points. People say that Brady never makes dumb mistakes. That isn't true. He probably makes less dumb mistakes than a lot of QB's but he does make his share of mistakes. The difference is his team picks him up after them so that they don't turn into points for the opposition. For example, he muffed a play action fake that he has probably done hundreds of times this season and fumbled deep in Eagle territory. Not only did that take points of the board for his team but it gave the Eagles the ball and a chance to score. His defense forced a three-and-out and they got the ball back with minimal damage done. But if Philly had scored it would have been a totally different Super Bowl and we would most likely be talking about how heroic Terrell Owens was with his performance rather than Tom Brady and his Super Bowl rings.This season against Miami he threw a pass while going down to the ground in the arms of a Dolphins' defender and the pass was picked off which eventually led to points for the Dolphins and a loss for The Pats. He threw a pass very similar to that one a few weeks before but it was completed to Patrick Pass for a small gain because Pass was WIDE OPEN at the time. People praised his awareness and smarts when he made that throw when in reality he probably should have just ate the ball and took the sack. Completing it to pass was just dumb luck.
Lawyer Milloy said prior to the Super Bowl that a lot of the Patriots players probably could get a good deal more money to play for another team but they have bought into Belichick and his winning concept. There are a lot of really good players on that team and that coaching staff (Belichick and his coordinators) was probably one of the best in history. People say that besides Brady and Dillon there are no Pro Bowlers on the Patriots this year which is true, but a few years ago Troy Brown was a Pro Bowler and now is the 4th receiver. That could mean a variety of things but one conclusion that you could draw from that is that they have a very deep receiving corps. I mean we would all love to have a Pro Bowl fourth receiver. And let's not forget about how talented Deion Branch is. He missed some time this year and if he had played a full season he might be on his way to Hawaii too. He was huge in the Super Bowl and without him Brady would have had to make a lot more tough throws and the Eagles' secondary would have probably made more of an impact.
Brady is a good QB. He plays for a GREAT team. The success of the team does not ride on his soldiers as much as it does for some of the other QB's in the league like a Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb (pre-Terrell Owens). If Manning has an off day, thats it the Colts are done. The only thing that they can hope to do is have Edge tear you up and hope that their defense can make some tackles (which is easier said than done). McNabb made it to the Super Bowl this year without Terrell Owens. His receivers were Todd Stinkston and Freddie Mitchell who's only asset is his mouth which is good for a laugh or two but that's all. In the three previous years McNabb had James Thrash who I believe is out of football now. His supporting cast on offense has been worse than Brady's for 3 out of the last 4 years. When healthy Terrell Owens probably is the best receiver in the league and that helps out a lot but look at the playoffs this year to see what a good QB McNabb is. And according to Hank Fraley he was sick to his stomach during that game. Donovan denies that report and does not want to make excuses so we really don't know what is the truth but if he was sick his performance was pretty damn good considering the circumstances. Yes he threw three interceptions but one was a great play by Bruschi and another one hit his receiver in the hands and got tipped to Harrison. Donovan gets credited with the interception but the one tipped to Harrison should be on the receiver and the other was just a really nice play by a really good MLB.
To argue that Brady sucks or is just average is absurd. Obviously he isn't because he puts up very nice numbers year in and year out. Tom Brady plays for a great team that is the best ever at finding and developing talent. David Patten was originally drafted by the Giants. He was cut by them because they thought that he couldn't play. I saw him play for the Giants and he didn't look to be any good. Apparently Belichick saw something that everyone else missed and brought him in. Now he is a quality receiver (not an all pro by any stretch of the imagination but he is not bad either). That is just one example of what the Patriots scouting and coaching staff can do. The three Super Bowl rings are proof of how good a team they really are. To win a Super Bowl you need to be very good all around and alittle lucky. There were some plays in their Super Bowl runs where they made a mistake but then the rest of the team picked up whoever made the mistake and they overcame it. That is what is different about the Patriots. They all pick eachother up and don't get down. If Peyton Manning throws an interception then it is up to his defense to pick him up and they can't do it. If Tom Brady throws an intercepton most likely Rodney Harrison or Tedy Bruschi or one of those guys is gonna rally the defensive troops and they are gonna go out and pick up their QB.
whiskybear
This works both ways, though. When the troops cough up a prolonged drive for a touchdown or get picked apart through the air (as so often happened this season), Brady was the one who went back out to lead the offense and chew some time off the clock, giving the D time to regroup. Quarterback play really does affect the defense through the possession game.
February 10, 2005 at 04:29PM View BBCode
Originally posted by skierdude44
If Tom Brady throws an intercepton most likely Rodney Harrison or Tedy Bruschi or one of those guys is gonna rally the defensive troops and they are gonna go out and pick up their QB.
This works both ways, though. When the troops cough up a prolonged drive for a touchdown or get picked apart through the air (as so often happened this season), Brady was the one who went back out to lead the offense and chew some time off the clock, giving the D time to regroup. Quarterback play really does affect the defense through the possession game.
skierdude44
The original statement that ME began this thread with is incredibly absurd. Tom Brady has played 4 years in the NFL. That is a pretty small sample size when judging a career. Let's say for arguments sake that Brady plays 10 more years and over that time he averages 15 TDs per year, 23 INTS, and 2800 yards and the Patriots do not win another Super Bowl in that time. Would he still be a HoFer. I seriously doubt it. But it is conceivable that he will turn into a pumpkin and put up those type numbers throughout the rest of career. Of course the opposite is also very possible. It is just too short of a sample size to make an accurate judgement on how his career ends up. Look at Kurt Warner. He has a ring, played in another Super Bowl, won 2 League MVPs, lead possibly the greatest offense ever, and over about 3 or 4 years was the most dominant QB in the league. Then he turned into a pumpkin and had fumble troubles, problems gripping the football, and became a liability in the pocket because he got sacked so often. He was run out of St. Louis and when he came to New York he was benched for a rookie QB despite the team having a winning record. He enjoyed comparable success to Tom Brady (less team achievements, more individual achievements) over a similar period of time but I think that most people would consider him being in the HOF as an absurd proposition.
Super Bowl rings are overrated when judging a player's HOF credentials. Look at Joe Namath. I'm a Jets fan and to most of us this guy is like a god because of Super Bowl lll. But in his career he threw more picks than touchdowns, never really had an outstanding season (some good ones though), and he guaranteed a Super Bowl victory and then went out and backed up his guarantee. But actually he didn't play that great in the game. He played pretty well but they weren't superhuman numbers that lifted his Jets who were 18 (I think it was 18, if it wasn't it was close to that) point underdogs past the talented Baltimore Colts. It was a total team effort and a bit of luck was involved as well. He is a HoFer but looking at his career stats he probably shouldn't be.
If Tom Brady continues to put up similar numbers to this season throughout the rest of his career than he probably deserves to eventually get into the Hall. Not first ballot unless his numbers increase over the coming years but a HoFer nonetheless. But that is a pretty good-sized if and the statement that he could retire today and make the HOF is so ridiculous that it is funny.
February 10, 2005 at 08:26PM View BBCode
Yes it goes both ways. That's what it means to be a TEAM. And actually the runningback plays the most crucial role in clock control (i.e. Patriots-Colts in the divisional round this year.) My whole point is that the Patriots are a great TEAM, filled with good players. To give one player all this credit is alittle absurd. Yes the QB is the field general and plays the most crucial role in a game BUT he is not the only one that should be held responsible for wins and losses. I seem to say this alot but the Patriots are a great team (and god does it hurt to say that). They are superb in all areas including the coaching staff and front office. They all rely on eachother and step up when one of their teammates goes down and pick up the slack (like Troy Brown).The original statement that ME began this thread with is incredibly absurd. Tom Brady has played 4 years in the NFL. That is a pretty small sample size when judging a career. Let's say for arguments sake that Brady plays 10 more years and over that time he averages 15 TDs per year, 23 INTS, and 2800 yards and the Patriots do not win another Super Bowl in that time. Would he still be a HoFer. I seriously doubt it. But it is conceivable that he will turn into a pumpkin and put up those type numbers throughout the rest of career. Of course the opposite is also very possible. It is just too short of a sample size to make an accurate judgement on how his career ends up. Look at Kurt Warner. He has a ring, played in another Super Bowl, won 2 League MVPs, lead possibly the greatest offense ever, and over about 3 or 4 years was the most dominant QB in the league. Then he turned into a pumpkin and had fumble troubles, problems gripping the football, and became a liability in the pocket because he got sacked so often. He was run out of St. Louis and when he came to New York he was benched for a rookie QB despite the team having a winning record. He enjoyed comparable success to Tom Brady (less team achievements, more individual achievements) over a similar period of time but I think that most people would consider him being in the HOF as an absurd proposition.
Super Bowl rings are overrated when judging a player's HOF credentials. Look at Joe Namath. I'm a Jets fan and to most of us this guy is like a god because of Super Bowl lll. But in his career he threw more picks than touchdowns, never really had an outstanding season (some good ones though), and he guaranteed a Super Bowl victory and then went out and backed up his guarantee. But actually he didn't play that great in the game. He played pretty well but they weren't superhuman numbers that lifted his Jets who were 18 (I think it was 18, if it wasn't it was close to that) point underdogs past the talented Baltimore Colts. It was a total team effort and a bit of luck was involved as well. He is a HoFer but looking at his career stats he probably shouldn't be.
If Tom Brady continues to put up similar numbers to this season throughout the rest of his career than he probably deserves to eventually get into the Hall. Not first ballot unless his numbers increase over the coming years but a HoFer nonetheless. But that is a pretty good-sized if and the statement that he could retire today and make the HOF is so ridiculous that it is funny.
whiskybear
But you're nuts if you don't think he has an excellent shot at the Hall of Fame. One more Super Bowl win, even just next season, seals it, and a couple more playoff berths all but guarantee it, too.
February 10, 2005 at 08:55PM View BBCode
If he retired today I don't think he'd make the Hall of Fame. If some ignoramus like ME came along and shattered both of his ankles with a sledgehammer today, he would make the Hall of Fame.But you're nuts if you don't think he has an excellent shot at the Hall of Fame. One more Super Bowl win, even just next season, seals it, and a couple more playoff berths all but guarantee it, too.
skierdude44
Do you think that Kurt Warner is a HOFer? Do you think that Joe Namath deserves to be in the HOF? If the answer to either or both of those questions is no then you have to admit that we need to wait until Tom Brady is farther along in his career before we discuss his HOF prospects. And I did say that if he continued at the same rate as far as individual performance goes I think that he will and should make the Hall eventually.
And as far as I know ME is not Tonya Harding so I think that Brady and his ankles are safe.
February 10, 2005 at 09:03PM View BBCode
UGH... Tom Brady and the New England Patriots are not synonyms. Another Super Bowl win or a couple playoff berths are team achievements. The HoF is based on individual achievements.Do you think that Kurt Warner is a HOFer? Do you think that Joe Namath deserves to be in the HOF? If the answer to either or both of those questions is no then you have to admit that we need to wait until Tom Brady is farther along in his career before we discuss his HOF prospects. And I did say that if he continued at the same rate as far as individual performance goes I think that he will and should make the Hall eventually.
And as far as I know ME is not Tonya Harding so I think that Brady and his ankles are safe.
whiskybear
Sorry, bub, but we remember Super Bowl winning quarterbacks, not Super Bowl winning defensive linemen, which is why the answer to "Which two quarterbacks have the most rings?" (Montana and Bradshaw) is easier to answer than which player has the most Super Bowl rings (Charles Haley with five). If Brady ties Montana and Bradshaw's records, he's in.
Kurt Warner: 1 ring while playing in the greatest offense in NFL history. Not comparable to Brady's 3 rings. Namath, 1 ring, atrocious career numbers. Not comparable to Brady's 3 rings, or to his career numbers.
I have no problem agreeing with this statement.
February 10, 2005 at 09:09PM View BBCode
Originally posted by skierdude44
UGH... Tom Brady and the New England Patriots are not synonyms. Another Super Bowl win or a couple playoff berths are team achievements. The HoF is based on individual achievements.
Sorry, bub, but we remember Super Bowl winning quarterbacks, not Super Bowl winning defensive linemen, which is why the answer to "Which two quarterbacks have the most rings?" (Montana and Bradshaw) is easier to answer than which player has the most Super Bowl rings (Charles Haley with five). If Brady ties Montana and Bradshaw's records, he's in.
Do you think that Kurt Warner is a HOFer? Do you think that Joe Namath deserves to be in the HOF? If the answer to either or both of those questions is no then you have to admit that we need to wait until Tom Brady is farther along in his career before we discuss his HOF prospects. And I did say that if he continued at the same rate as far as individual performance goes I think that he will and should make the Hall eventually.
Kurt Warner: 1 ring while playing in the greatest offense in NFL history. Not comparable to Brady's 3 rings. Namath, 1 ring, atrocious career numbers. Not comparable to Brady's 3 rings, or to his career numbers.
And as far as I know ME is not Tonya Harding so I think that Brady and his ankles are safe.
I have no problem agreeing with this statement.
andrew
I am pretty certain ME is a figure skater though.
yup here he is
February 10, 2005 at 09:14PM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
And as far as I know ME is not Tonya Harding so I think that Brady and his ankles are safe.
I have no problem agreeing with this statement.
I am pretty certain ME is a figure skater though.
yup here he is
Pages: 1 2