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skierdude44
Favre to the Jets
August 07, 2008 at 03:30PM View BBCode
Finally, the Jets have a QB who can throw the ball more than 15 yards...
happy
August 07, 2008 at 04:04PM View BBCode
wow, now the jets 3rd string QB is better than the starting QB on at least 3 (other than QB) playoff calibur teams. and quick DVOA switch suggests that this move changes their expected wins from 7.2 to 7.6. Although that is just quick guesswork, it sounds like it wont change very much for the J-E-T-S-SUCK SUCK SUCK.
barterer2002
August 07, 2008 at 04:18PM View BBCode
I suspect the Jets make the playoffs. They've got a pretty easy schedule and they're not as bad a team as they played last season. Remember they were a 10 win team two years ago. They're clearly not in the Pat's class but they're second in the division better than most of the teams in the west and the North is going to beat up on itself. I'd be surprised if we didn't see the Jets in the playoffs.
Hamilton2
August 07, 2008 at 04:43PM View BBCode
I agree with Bart on this one. I had my doubts about Clemens and Pennington, but I think Favre will get them there. Miami and Buffalo are really bad, the AFC West is horrible (except for San Diego), and the North/South are too deep and will beat each other up. Jets have a great shot at a wild card.
FuriousGiorge
August 07, 2008 at 04:46PM View BBCode
Sweet merciful Christ, it's finally over. Favre can do his Grossman thing with the Jets, and I can stop pretending to give a censored . Also, Tom sucks.
happy
Might sneak in just because there is no real #6 playoff team in the AFC, but even if they do sneak in, they certainly wont be the 6th BEST afc team.
August 07, 2008 at 04:47PM View BBCode
last year they were rated 25th in DVOA.Might sneak in just because there is no real #6 playoff team in the AFC, but even if they do sneak in, they certainly wont be the 6th BEST afc team.
khazim
Twice.
It reminds me of when Joe Montana was with the Chiefs. Elway vs Montana. Twice.
There's just something about seeing two legends go head to head.
August 08, 2008 at 03:11PM View BBCode
I want to see Favre vs Brady.Twice.
It reminds me of when Joe Montana was with the Chiefs. Elway vs Montana. Twice.
There's just something about seeing two legends go head to head.
barterer2002
August 08, 2008 at 04:42PM View formatted
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I have no idea what DVOA is.
Hamilton2
It isn't the best way to rate team defense, but it does adequately well.
Here's the thing, happy. You can't measure the benefit gained from adding a QB of Favre's reputation and leadership skill to an offense.
With the addition of A. Faneca in the off season, the Jets greatly improved their O-line.
Also, the defense took significant steps back last year. They were top 20 DVOA in 2006. I'm more inclined to think they will be closer to 2006 than 2007. And if they are top 2/3rds of the league with an offense as improved as it will be ... they could easily be the 6th team in the playoffs.
August 08, 2008 at 05:11PM View BBCode
Defense adjusted Value Over AverageIt isn't the best way to rate team defense, but it does adequately well.
Here's the thing, happy. You can't measure the benefit gained from adding a QB of Favre's reputation and leadership skill to an offense.
With the addition of A. Faneca in the off season, the Jets greatly improved their O-line.
Also, the defense took significant steps back last year. They were top 20 DVOA in 2006. I'm more inclined to think they will be closer to 2006 than 2007. And if they are top 2/3rds of the league with an offense as improved as it will be ... they could easily be the 6th team in the playoffs.
FuriousGiorge
August 08, 2008 at 05:21PM View BBCode
Unless Brett throws about 4000 picks like he did three years ago.
whiskybear
August 08, 2008 at 05:23PM View BBCode
The Jets may well make the playoffs this year. But to see them go 4-12 with Favre under center would be the best thing in the universe.
BobbyGrich
Texans, Titans, Bills, Bengals, Broncos. Teams that can compete with the Jets.
I dont see the Jets making the playoffs.
August 08, 2008 at 05:37PM View BBCode
Patriots, Chargers, Colts, Jaguars, Browns, Steelers. A few teams that I feel are better than the Jets.Texans, Titans, Bills, Bengals, Broncos. Teams that can compete with the Jets.
I dont see the Jets making the playoffs.
Hamilton2
I agree that all those teams are better than the Jets Iexcept the Bills and Broncos, I really think they struggle this year).
The problem is: with division play and other scheduling factors, the Browns and Steelers will murder each other and it would be very surprising if they both made the postseason.
The 3rd team in the South (Titans) isn't likely to be better than the 2nd team in the East (Jets). Consequently, the Jets will get in, in spite of being only the 9th or 10th best team in the division.
August 08, 2008 at 05:52PM View BBCode
Originally posted by BobbyGrich
Patriots, Chargers, Colts, Jaguars, Browns, Steelers. A few teams that I feel are better than the Jets.
Texans, Titans, Bills, Bengals, Broncos. Teams that can compete with the Jets.
I dont see the Jets making the playoffs.
I agree that all those teams are better than the Jets Iexcept the Bills and Broncos, I really think they struggle this year).
The problem is: with division play and other scheduling factors, the Browns and Steelers will murder each other and it would be very surprising if they both made the postseason.
The 3rd team in the South (Titans) isn't likely to be better than the 2nd team in the East (Jets). Consequently, the Jets will get in, in spite of being only the 9th or 10th best team in the division.
BobbyGrich
August 08, 2008 at 06:01PM View BBCode
the Browns and Steelers cant murder each other, they only play twice. At worst one of them would have 2 losses from that, but the other would have 2 wins. We will see, but even with scheduling, I dont see the Jets winning enough games to make the playoffs.
nbn_ckh3
But the AFC is just too strong.
Either way, I am not agreeing with Happy's reasoning. Ever.
-Nick
August 08, 2008 at 11:29PM View BBCode
If it weren't for what Bobby said above, I'd say they make the playoffs.But the AFC is just too strong.
Either way, I am not agreeing with Happy's reasoning. Ever.
-Nick
ME
They were a fluke 10 win team that got extremely lucky 2 years ago and a little better in many respects last year.
I'd put them at about 50-50 to make the playoffs this year with Favre. The thing is their QB wasn't the big problem (offensive line and pass rush were) last year and Favre is no star so he's not a big upgrade.
The "Reputation" and "Leadership" part is worthless. Everyone says Pennington has great leadership but they cut him, and Favre's reputation has been tarnished by the whole drama with the Packers.
August 09, 2008 at 12:15AM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
I suspect the Jets make the playoffs. They've got a pretty easy schedule and they're not as bad a team as they played last season. Remember they were a 10 win team two years ago. They're clearly not in the Pat's class but they're second in the division better than most of the teams in the west and the North is going to beat up on itself. I'd be surprised if we didn't see the Jets in the playoffs.
They were a fluke 10 win team that got extremely lucky 2 years ago and a little better in many respects last year.
I'd put them at about 50-50 to make the playoffs this year with Favre. The thing is their QB wasn't the big problem (offensive line and pass rush were) last year and Favre is no star so he's not a big upgrade.
The "Reputation" and "Leadership" part is worthless. Everyone says Pennington has great leadership but they cut him, and Favre's reputation has been tarnished by the whole drama with the Packers.
dirtdevil
August 09, 2008 at 03:44AM View BBCode
the drama with the packers won't take any velocity from his arm, so i have a hard time seeing how it affects his play. i don't think the jets are that good really, but they might get into the #6 spot by default. as mentioned the #2 team in a weak division often ends up with a better record than the #2 team in a strong one, regardless of their relative mertis.
bobcat73
agreed
August 09, 2008 at 05:18AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
The Jets may well make the playoffs this year. But to see them go 4-12 with Favre under center would be the best thing in the universe.
agreed
happy
The problem is that you cant argue on one hand that is "reputation" is going to improve the team, and on the other hand say that the "drama" doesnt affect his velocity. The reputation doesnt affect his velocity either.
Im one to think that neither one matters, but its neither or both, you cant ignore one and not the other.
Also, steelers/browns schedule is straight up painful, it isnt just each other. they play something insane like 14 games against teams who were either .500 or above .500 last season.
Hamilton-- I agree that DVOA is not nearly as sophisticated as the baseball stuff is, but it does a hell of a lot better job than most stats out there. DVOA putting the jets at ~7.6 wins makes them a long shot playoff team. The NFL is far more luck based than baseball, and even the worst team in the league could luck themselves into the playoffs.
The jets arent anything to get excited about, even if they do have a playoff shot.
August 09, 2008 at 05:49AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
the drama with the packers won't take any velocity from his arm, so i have a hard time seeing how it affects his play.
The problem is that you cant argue on one hand that is "reputation" is going to improve the team, and on the other hand say that the "drama" doesnt affect his velocity. The reputation doesnt affect his velocity either.
Im one to think that neither one matters, but its neither or both, you cant ignore one and not the other.
Also, steelers/browns schedule is straight up painful, it isnt just each other. they play something insane like 14 games against teams who were either .500 or above .500 last season.
Hamilton-- I agree that DVOA is not nearly as sophisticated as the baseball stuff is, but it does a hell of a lot better job than most stats out there. DVOA putting the jets at ~7.6 wins makes them a long shot playoff team. The NFL is far more luck based than baseball, and even the worst team in the league could luck themselves into the playoffs.
The jets arent anything to get excited about, even if they do have a playoff shot.
ME
August 09, 2008 at 08:34PM View BBCode
The Jets have a pretty easy schedule since they play the NFC West, AFC West, and Browns/Jaguars as their out of division schedule. I think the 6th spot in the AFC will go down to the Jets, Browns, and Texans, but the Texans are handicapped by their tougher schedule.
dirtdevil
i don't remember saying anything about his rep improving the team. the team is improved if he's an upgrade at QB. i've never really thought that favre was as good as his reputation, but he's certainly an uprgrade for the jets.
August 09, 2008 at 09:51PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
Originally posted by dirtdevil
the drama with the packers won't take any velocity from his arm, so i have a hard time seeing how it affects his play.
The problem is that you cant argue on one hand that is "reputation" is going to improve the team, and on the other hand say that the "drama" doesnt affect his velocity. The reputation doesnt affect his velocity either.
i don't remember saying anything about his rep improving the team. the team is improved if he's an upgrade at QB. i've never really thought that favre was as good as his reputation, but he's certainly an uprgrade for the jets.
happy
yeah, i know you didnt. I think someone else did. I guess the point really is that it doesnt matter one way or the other because between reputation and leadership, its a wash for Favre, so the importance of these things is unimportant.
August 10, 2008 at 04:21AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by happy
Originally posted by dirtdevil
the drama with the packers won't take any velocity from his arm, so i have a hard time seeing how it affects his play.
The problem is that you cant argue on one hand that is "reputation" is going to improve the team, and on the other hand say that the "drama" doesnt affect his velocity. The reputation doesnt affect his velocity either.
i don't remember saying anything about his rep improving the team. the team is improved if he's an upgrade at QB. i've never really thought that favre was as good as his reputation, but he's certainly an uprgrade for the jets.
yeah, i know you didnt. I think someone else did. I guess the point really is that it doesnt matter one way or the other because between reputation and leadership, its a wash for Favre, so the importance of these things is unimportant.
barterer2002
Farve is what is his. At his best he's a brilliant passer who can put the ball on the money at 60 yards. He throws a tremendous out ball, a great deep ball and has more touch than Elway ever did. At his worst he tries to force things that aren't there to receivers that aren't capable and ends up with a bunch of INTs. He is one of the few QBs currently playing (Brady, Manning) who can single handedly change the outcome of the game. He can change it for either good or bad which is the conundrum that is Brett Favre. He has everything that is good about a QB with in him but also a lot of what is bad. Still he's a major upgrade for the Jets and is probably at this point still one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL. Is he top 5 all time-I don't think so. Top 10, maybe. Top 15 definately.
August 10, 2008 at 02:13PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
i've never really thought that favre was as good as his reputation, but he's certainly an uprgrade for the jets.
Farve is what is his. At his best he's a brilliant passer who can put the ball on the money at 60 yards. He throws a tremendous out ball, a great deep ball and has more touch than Elway ever did. At his worst he tries to force things that aren't there to receivers that aren't capable and ends up with a bunch of INTs. He is one of the few QBs currently playing (Brady, Manning) who can single handedly change the outcome of the game. He can change it for either good or bad which is the conundrum that is Brett Favre. He has everything that is good about a QB with in him but also a lot of what is bad. Still he's a major upgrade for the Jets and is probably at this point still one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL. Is he top 5 all time-I don't think so. Top 10, maybe. Top 15 definately.
happy
Brady
Palmer
Brees
(all unquestionably better than him)
Garrard
Romo
Cutler
Rothlesberger
(probably better than him too)
a couple of other guys might be better too. Cutler, Collins, Rivers, all very young, they could improve and be better than him this year too. Also, i dont know, Hassleback, McNabb...
Sure, he is "above average", but he isnt even close to touching those top 4.
He has been overrated his entire career. He has been a consistantly good player, but hasnt been a dominating force for a very long time.
as for the 60 yard pass thing. his long ball game is more about his reputation than anything else. His recent success has been on short gains.
as for the long ball, it can be described best as: "he throws ridiculous picks into tight double coverage with shorter reads open, and everyone in the booth talks about how much ?fun? it is."
the fact is, last year he was surrounded by good players who made him look much better than he is. They had extremely good yards after catch, and so he could throw 4 or 5 yard passes as a major part of his offense. Also he had a good offensive line around him. Faneca is not going to single handedly fortify an extremely weak O line, and he has next to no one to throw to. When he starts getting behind late in games, he is going to try to force things. And despite his reputation, this is when he starts to suck. Yes, he does singlehandedly change the outcome of games, generally for the worse.
[Edited on 8-10-2008 by happy]
August 10, 2008 at 06:40PM View BBCode
ManningBrady
Palmer
Brees
(all unquestionably better than him)
Garrard
Romo
Cutler
Rothlesberger
(probably better than him too)
a couple of other guys might be better too. Cutler, Collins, Rivers, all very young, they could improve and be better than him this year too. Also, i dont know, Hassleback, McNabb...
Sure, he is "above average", but he isnt even close to touching those top 4.
He has been overrated his entire career. He has been a consistantly good player, but hasnt been a dominating force for a very long time.
as for the 60 yard pass thing. his long ball game is more about his reputation than anything else. His recent success has been on short gains.
as for the long ball, it can be described best as: "he throws ridiculous picks into tight double coverage with shorter reads open, and everyone in the booth talks about how much ?fun? it is."
the fact is, last year he was surrounded by good players who made him look much better than he is. They had extremely good yards after catch, and so he could throw 4 or 5 yard passes as a major part of his offense. Also he had a good offensive line around him. Faneca is not going to single handedly fortify an extremely weak O line, and he has next to no one to throw to. When he starts getting behind late in games, he is going to try to force things. And despite his reputation, this is when he starts to suck. Yes, he does singlehandedly change the outcome of games, generally for the worse.
[Edited on 8-10-2008 by happy]
FuriousGiorge
August 10, 2008 at 07:02PM View BBCode
I'm as critical of Favre as anyone, but you are simply indulging in ridiculous hyperbole. Favre is quite clearly better than many of the QB's on your list, and in the midst of what is indisputably HOF career, he had one of his best years last year. He is a clear upgrade for the Jets in the short-term. Between regression to the mean for the Jets and upgrades on their team, it is very possible they will make the playoffs this season. And you will say, "Well, it had nothing to do with Brett" and other idiots will say, "Brett Favre is a miracle worker" and the answer will lie somewhere in the middle.