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drunkengoat
hahahahahahahaha, another asterisk!
Former Red Sox, current Red Sox, make no differnce. You play with drugs, I hate you. That's how it works.
I tried some N.O. Xplode supplement when I was in Kuwait last year. Yes, the stimulants made me want to work out past my usual 80-90 minute limit, but who in the censored would want to [i]do[/i] that?
Manny being...
May 07, 2009 at 05:03PM View formatted
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[strike]Manny[/strike] suspended?
hahahahahahahaha, another asterisk!
Former Red Sox, current Red Sox, make no differnce. You play with drugs, I hate you. That's how it works.
I tried some N.O. Xplode supplement when I was in Kuwait last year. Yes, the stimulants made me want to work out past my usual 80-90 minute limit, but who in the censored would want to [i]do[/i] that?
drunkengoat
This is going to annoy the crap out of me though. Sure, it's a bombshell, but I don't think it's necessary for ALL the ESPN networks to dedicate the entire freaking morning to covering this.
He popped, he's suspended, he's sorry (at least that's what he's saying in his issued statement), end of story. Jeez.
May 07, 2009 at 05:09PM View BBCode
Pretty much.This is going to annoy the crap out of me though. Sure, it's a bombshell, but I don't think it's necessary for ALL the ESPN networks to dedicate the entire freaking morning to covering this.
He popped, he's suspended, he's sorry (at least that's what he's saying in his issued statement), end of story. Jeez.
barterer2002
May 07, 2009 at 05:10PM View BBCode
(by the way, bobcat started this topic earlier but lost his audience in a poor headline)
dirtdevil
May 07, 2009 at 05:11PM View BBCode
i don't think there's a name left out there that would cause me to say "i'm shocked" if they got caught with enhancers. i can't decide if that says more about me or the state of baseball in general.
drunkengoat
And in other news, censored Kobe.
Oh, yay, Plaschke is about to weigh in. Get the truck scales.
May 07, 2009 at 05:14PM View BBCode
My bad, bart. If there ain't at least 5 or so replies, I don't bother, because people do the same to threads I usually start.And in other news, censored Kobe.
Oh, yay, Plaschke is about to weigh in. Get the truck scales.
barterer2002
May 07, 2009 at 05:14PM View BBCode
No wonder he wanted a long term deal. Lets see what he gets after next year
tm4559
if his doctor prescribed it, and manny didn't realize it was a banned substance, is that so terrible? (i mean, it is terrible he is suspended, for the dodgers, of course. and it was his responsiblity to check or ask the doctor to check the list, i guess. i wonder if he goes to a doctor who should know these things, or if the whole doctor story is a cover up of sorts.)
does it mean he was always using banned substances?
May 07, 2009 at 05:32PM View BBCode
well, what about the tests he took before that were not positive?if his doctor prescribed it, and manny didn't realize it was a banned substance, is that so terrible? (i mean, it is terrible he is suspended, for the dodgers, of course. and it was his responsiblity to check or ask the doctor to check the list, i guess. i wonder if he goes to a doctor who should know these things, or if the whole doctor story is a cover up of sorts.)
does it mean he was always using banned substances?
drunkengoat
May 07, 2009 at 05:34PM View BBCode
Plaschke's reaction = classic Plaschke. That's the only reason I hadn't changed the channel. Everyone needs a good laugh. I'll see if I can find a link.
Bone-Scorpion
May 07, 2009 at 06:03PM View BBCode
He wanted to take some time off. He doesnt have to fake an injury now. This was on purpose :D.
barterer2002
The problem tim, is that the substance that he took is one that habitual steroid users use to get their body to counter some of the side effects of steroid use. The truth is that the testing systems don't do a good job at finding steriods, they do, however, do a better job at finding things like masking agents and I suppose this particular type of drug (which I'd never heard of before)
May 07, 2009 at 06:15PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
well, what about the tests he took before that were not positive?
if his doctor prescribed it, and manny didn't realize it was a banned substance, is that so terrible? (i mean, it is terrible he is suspended, for the dodgers, of course. and it was his responsiblity to check or ask the doctor to check the list, i guess. i wonder if he goes to a doctor who should know these things, or if the whole doctor story is a cover up of sorts.)
does it mean he was always using banned substances?
The problem tim, is that the substance that he took is one that habitual steroid users use to get their body to counter some of the side effects of steroid use. The truth is that the testing systems don't do a good job at finding steriods, they do, however, do a better job at finding things like masking agents and I suppose this particular type of drug (which I'd never heard of before)
tm4559
May 07, 2009 at 06:18PM View BBCode
i think i was trying to get information really. i don't know what the substance was. is the whole doctor thing a ruse? why does a doctor prescribe a masking drug? what are the positive healing effects of the substance (which i don't know what it is)?
barterer2002
1). Manny's statement is clearly written by someone on Scott Boros' staff
2). Baseball players certainly know this kind of thing can happen. If they have a question there are hotlines and team doctors who give them free advice on this kind of thing.
3). The drug that Manny tested positive for is apparently human chorionic gonadotropin. According to the information coming out its a women's fertility drug that steroid users use to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. I haven't seen another realistic reason for a man in his thirties to be using this drug but there may be one.
4). The prescribing doctor was in Florida for some reason. Personally I'd feel Ok with that if a Marlin or Ray or even if a team that trained in Florida during the spring had a Florida doctor making prescriptions but why on earth would Manny, who's team trains in Arizona and who plays in California and who's team hasn't traveled east of Houston yet this season?
May 07, 2009 at 06:28PM View BBCode
Well there are a few things that don't add up.1). Manny's statement is clearly written by someone on Scott Boros' staff
2). Baseball players certainly know this kind of thing can happen. If they have a question there are hotlines and team doctors who give them free advice on this kind of thing.
3). The drug that Manny tested positive for is apparently human chorionic gonadotropin. According to the information coming out its a women's fertility drug that steroid users use to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. I haven't seen another realistic reason for a man in his thirties to be using this drug but there may be one.
4). The prescribing doctor was in Florida for some reason. Personally I'd feel Ok with that if a Marlin or Ray or even if a team that trained in Florida during the spring had a Florida doctor making prescriptions but why on earth would Manny, who's team trains in Arizona and who plays in California and who's team hasn't traveled east of Houston yet this season?
DwightKSchrute
[Edited on 5-7-2009 by DwightKSchrute]
May 07, 2009 at 06:35PM View BBCode
eventually it is going to come out that nearly every player worth a crap has used/is using. Maybe then the media can stop blowing up the whole thing.[Edited on 5-7-2009 by DwightKSchrute]
barterer2002
May 07, 2009 at 06:38PM View BBCode
Do you really think that this is being overblown Dwight? That seems silly to me. This is somewhat different than Clemens, Bonds, Giambi and McGwire as none of them ever was suspended or tested positive during the testing period.
DwightKSchrute
May 07, 2009 at 06:45PM View BBCode
Well, I suppose this is a story because MLB has finally suspended a superstar. I fully believe that other stars have tested positive with no action by the league. I hope this makes the statementthat there is some integrity to the testing system. I just want them to clean up the league and shut up about it. What happened happened (LOST plug) you can change it now. Let's move on.
tm4559
well there is information in there (#'s two, three and four) along with editorial comment (number one) which may be entirely true, as editorial comment sometimes is. and of course there is the obligatory damning by conjecture (number four the why the doctor in florida thing) which is probably understandable and perhaps even commendable. it is at least stronger i guess than the "(whatever player's) numbers show a pattern of enhancement" or that type of thing.
i suppose the presence of a masking agent is more strong evidence than someone saying, in a book, or in testimony before congress or whoever, that some player used steroids or human growth hormone. i mean, this is a free country. someone could say anything about anybody really.
is it as strong as a player admitting to using the cream and the clear? i thought bonds admitted to that, he said he didn't know what it was, but i thought he said that.
and i don't agree with what dwight said. i think there were a lot of players that didn't use illegal enhancing drugs, and i think a lot of them were good. i could of course be wrong about that.
[Edited on 5-7-2009 by tm4559]
May 07, 2009 at 06:53PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Well there are a few things that don't add up.
1). Manny's statement is clearly written by someone on Scott Boros' staff
2). Baseball players certainly know this kind of thing can happen. If they have a question there are hotlines and team doctors who give them free advice on this kind of thing.
3). The drug that Manny tested positive for is apparently human chorionic gonadotropin. According to the information coming out its a women's fertility drug that steroid users use to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. I haven't seen another realistic reason for a man in his thirties to be using this drug but there may be one.
4). The prescribing doctor was in Florida for some reason. Personally I'd feel Ok with that if a Marlin or Ray or even if a team that trained in Florida during the spring had a Florida doctor making prescriptions but why on earth would Manny, who's team trains in Arizona and who plays in California and who's team hasn't traveled east of Houston yet this season?
well there is information in there (#'s two, three and four) along with editorial comment (number one) which may be entirely true, as editorial comment sometimes is. and of course there is the obligatory damning by conjecture (number four the why the doctor in florida thing) which is probably understandable and perhaps even commendable. it is at least stronger i guess than the "(whatever player's) numbers show a pattern of enhancement" or that type of thing.
i suppose the presence of a masking agent is more strong evidence than someone saying, in a book, or in testimony before congress or whoever, that some player used steroids or human growth hormone. i mean, this is a free country. someone could say anything about anybody really.
is it as strong as a player admitting to using the cream and the clear? i thought bonds admitted to that, he said he didn't know what it was, but i thought he said that.
and i don't agree with what dwight said. i think there were a lot of players that didn't use illegal enhancing drugs, and i think a lot of them were good. i could of course be wrong about that.
[Edited on 5-7-2009 by tm4559]
jchelland
This is how I feel about it too. Yes it is a story, but god I am sick of hearing about it. I just hope the testing does in fact have some integrity and we can one day move on.
May 07, 2009 at 06:55PM View BBCode
Originally posted by DwightKSchrute
Well, I suppose this is a story because MLB has finally suspended a superstar. I fully believe that other stars have tested positive with no action by the league. I hope this makes the statementthat there is some integrity to the testing system. I just want them to clean up the league and shut up about it. What happened happened (LOST plug) you can change it now. Let's move on.
This is how I feel about it too. Yes it is a story, but god I am sick of hearing about it. I just hope the testing does in fact have some integrity and we can one day move on.
barterer2002
May 07, 2009 at 06:57PM View BBCode
You're right on Bonds admitting to the clear although saying he didn't know what it was however that was supposedly before the testing system came into being (and when steroids weren't punishable in MLB)
tm4559
what we always get left with, i guess, is doubt. a positive test for a banned substance now is somewhat different, i guess, and removes doubt about the present i guess, and at least calls the past into question.
i mean, with palmeiro, everyone took the positive test to mean he always used. in fact, it could have been he never used before he made that statement to congress. i don't know what is true there, but it could have happend that way. or he might have had a postive test before that was suppressed. i obviously just don't know.
May 07, 2009 at 07:11PM View BBCode
i am basically in agreement. the whole testing thing is a problem for everybody, because the tests were done back in the day, but the results were kept secret (by agreement with the players's union, isn't that right?) and that agreement has been not obeyed with respect to some players (ARod, i guess). i don't even know if manny, for example, is even allowed to ask that all his previous test results be made public. or even if his tests were valid, because, as you say, the tests might not have been very effective anyway.what we always get left with, i guess, is doubt. a positive test for a banned substance now is somewhat different, i guess, and removes doubt about the present i guess, and at least calls the past into question.
i mean, with palmeiro, everyone took the positive test to mean he always used. in fact, it could have been he never used before he made that statement to congress. i don't know what is true there, but it could have happend that way. or he might have had a postive test before that was suppressed. i obviously just don't know.
DwightKSchrute
Who Tim? Besides Griffey there aren't many I can't think of many. My guess is that around 80% of the league has used at some point.
May 07, 2009 at 07:23PM View BBCode
and i don't agree with what dwight said. i think there were a lot of players that didn't use illegal enhancing drugs, and i think a lot of them were good. i could of course be wrong about that.
[Edited on 5-7-2009 by tm4559]
Who Tim? Besides Griffey there aren't many I can't think of many. My guess is that around 80% of the league has used at some point.
FuriousGiorge
May 07, 2009 at 07:25PM View BBCode
64.3% of all statistics are made up. Everyone knows that.
tm4559
Who Tim? Besides Griffey there aren't many I can't think of many. My guess is that around 80% of the league has used at some point.
if you believe so steadfastly that so many of them used, then why do you believe so steadfastly that junior did not?
May 07, 2009 at 07:27PM View BBCode
Originally posted by DwightKSchrute
[Edited on 5-7-2009 by tm4559]
Who Tim? Besides Griffey there aren't many I can't think of many. My guess is that around 80% of the league has used at some point.
if you believe so steadfastly that so many of them used, then why do you believe so steadfastly that junior did not?
happy
May 07, 2009 at 07:28PM View BBCode
everyone uses the same excuse. they didnt know. which is censored . New rule: You say you didnt know, you are suspended for an extra year.
DwightKSchrute
May 07, 2009 at 07:30PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorgeI already conceeded that it was a total guess.
64.3% of all statistics are made up. Everyone knows that.