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shep1582
and vice versa.
I'm sure it's a lot of code to try to make ABE see a platoon advantage (maybe a RHP is the best guy to bring in) but it would be cool to be able to at least gain some advantage because of the rarity of hitters being as good both ways.
modern day bullpens
August 02, 2009 at 02:25AM View BBCode
I'd like to see an option "when a RH SP is pulled, bring in a LH RP as the first option".and vice versa.
I'm sure it's a lot of code to try to make ABE see a platoon advantage (maybe a RHP is the best guy to bring in) but it would be cool to be able to at least gain some advantage because of the rarity of hitters being as good both ways.
chessmyantidrug
August 02, 2009 at 08:37AM View BBCode
I don't see the point here. I could see a point of looking at which pitcher the batter in the box, on deck or in the hole would fare the worst against but there's no point in looking at the SP's handedness.
dirtdevil
August 02, 2009 at 02:28PM View BBCode
yeah, i have to agree with chess here. i don't know of any manager anywhere who has ever brought in pitchers who throw the oppostie as the previous pitcher as a matter of course. i can't imagine why anyone would want to use such a strategy. now, i can see how someone might want to tailor a particular matchup based on the batter(s) to be faced. but i don't know of anyone who would bring in a lefty to face 3 righthanded hitters just because the starter was a righty.
res98
Where did all this Matchup stuff start anyway? You really think Hank Aaron's Manager or Willie Mays Manager worried if there was a LHP or a RHP in the game? A good Hitter can hit against ANY Pitcher...geesh.
August 02, 2009 at 02:58PM View BBCode
I've seen this alot in every level of Baseball. The thought here is that the Other manager has already set his lineup to match up against the Opposing Pitcher (ie: A LH Lineup or a RH Lineup) So, if you have a RH Pitcher starting , you bring in a LHP since the other Manager has set his Lineup to face a RHP and he will have to pull the guys that can't hit LHP and thin out his Bench. It can be effective against Managers that seem to think that there always has to be a Matchup.Where did all this Matchup stuff start anyway? You really think Hank Aaron's Manager or Willie Mays Manager worried if there was a LHP or a RHP in the game? A good Hitter can hit against ANY Pitcher...geesh.
barterer2002
August 02, 2009 at 03:28PM View BBCode
This seems to me that it would be a nice balance between instituting a lefty specialist which may be more to code and doing nothing match up wise with the pitchers. Makes sense to me anyway
shep1582
I usually platoon at least 2 players, especially catcher. Those who don't hit LHP very well would all of a sudden be in the lineup against one. Since I can't PH at will, the opposing manager would have a distinct advantage at a few spots in my lineup.
August 02, 2009 at 05:26PM View BBCode
I can't remember who used to do it (Sparky Anderson?), but he would let a lefty start and pitch an inning, then bring in a righty who would go 5-6 innings and force the other manager to make several changes in his lineup.I usually platoon at least 2 players, especially catcher. Those who don't hit LHP very well would all of a sudden be in the lineup against one. Since I can't PH at will, the opposing manager would have a distinct advantage at a few spots in my lineup.
chessmyantidrug
I endorse situational match-ups in close games. A lot of hitters are quite a bit better against a certain handedness so bringing in a pitcher they are less likely to succeed against makes a lot of sense.
August 02, 2009 at 06:43PM View BBCode
I doubt I'm the only one, but the lineups in my leagues are almost the same on both sides. I might have a platoon at one or two positions. If my opponent starts a lefty reliever then has a right-handed starting pitcher come in (or vice versa), I'm far from in a world of hurt.I endorse situational match-ups in close games. A lot of hitters are quite a bit better against a certain handedness so bringing in a pitcher they are less likely to succeed against makes a lot of sense.
Jughead
Such hitters are not pinch hit for typically. If the hitter was good, you would have no reason to pinch hit for them anyway.
I can understand the request. It would be nice to have. I don't know how easy it would be to work into the code.
August 02, 2009 at 06:48PM View BBCode
Originally posted by res98
Where did all this Matchup stuff start anyway? You really think Hank Aaron's Manager or Willie Mays Manager worried if there was a LHP or a RHP in the game? A good Hitter can hit against ANY Pitcher...geesh.
Such hitters are not pinch hit for typically. If the hitter was good, you would have no reason to pinch hit for them anyway.
I can understand the request. It would be nice to have. I don't know how easy it would be to work into the code.
chessmyantidrug
August 02, 2009 at 06:54PM View formatted
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There's already an option to not pinch hit for hitters hitting between X and Y. I doubt many SimD owners exclude their 3, 4 or 5 hitters from that range.
Jughead
August 02, 2009 at 09:26PM View BBCode
Sure, but what does that have to do with anything? This is about managing the bullpen.
chessmyantidrug
August 03, 2009 at 02:57AM View BBCode
You brought up pinch hitters. You tell me what it has to do with anything.
Jughead
The thread talked about opposite-armed relievers to either make a lineup less effective or to require pinch hitters to exhaust the bench sooner.
I addressed res' comment (he U2Ued me afterward) because he was talking about good hitters being PH for. They wouldn't be PH for anyway. This is about players that aren't stars that get PH for because of matchups. This happens every day.
I addressed chess' comment because the fact that you can determine which spots in the order can be PH for has nothing to do with managing a bullpen for matchups. He pointed out something that's true, but irrelevant. I was asking him to clarify why he mentioned it, and he said it is because I brought up PH. I didn't. Shep did when he said "I can't remember who used to do it (Sparky Anderson?), but he would let a lefty start and pitch an inning, then bring in a righty who would go 5-6 innings and force the other manager to make several changes in his lineup." I doubt all those changes in the lineup were done as defensive substitutions.
August 03, 2009 at 04:07AM View BBCode
jesus, the vitriol in this thread...The thread talked about opposite-armed relievers to either make a lineup less effective or to require pinch hitters to exhaust the bench sooner.
I addressed res' comment (he U2Ued me afterward) because he was talking about good hitters being PH for. They wouldn't be PH for anyway. This is about players that aren't stars that get PH for because of matchups. This happens every day.
I addressed chess' comment because the fact that you can determine which spots in the order can be PH for has nothing to do with managing a bullpen for matchups. He pointed out something that's true, but irrelevant. I was asking him to clarify why he mentioned it, and he said it is because I brought up PH. I didn't. Shep did when he said "I can't remember who used to do it (Sparky Anderson?), but he would let a lefty start and pitch an inning, then bring in a righty who would go 5-6 innings and force the other manager to make several changes in his lineup." I doubt all those changes in the lineup were done as defensive substitutions.
chessmyantidrug
I still think we should be able to bring in a southpaw to face a hitter who hits southpaws worse or vice versa. I imagine quite a few starting hitters are left-handed with such an emphasis on players who can hit right-handed pitching.
August 03, 2009 at 04:19AM View BBCode
Regardless, the Sparky Anderson idea (if that's who it was) is a rather silly one. It's a waste of a pitcher. At least in SimD it is. Employing such a strategy wouldn't force the other team to use pinch hitters.I still think we should be able to bring in a southpaw to face a hitter who hits southpaws worse or vice versa. I imagine quite a few starting hitters are left-handed with such an emphasis on players who can hit right-handed pitching.
Jughead
Like I said, I understand the request. It would be nice to have.
August 03, 2009 at 05:59PM View BBCode
Might be a useful strategy if you have a rotation full of C- endurance starters and seven relievers. In some leagues, the D+/B-/A+ reliever is treated as worthless. If you stockpile all of them, it'd be worth thinking about. This would be much easier to do in a larger league because there would be more players to pick from. Some leagues may not have enough good LHP to make this work.Like I said, I understand the request. It would be nice to have.
chessmyantidrug
August 03, 2009 at 06:52PM View BBCode
It's not as much about the pitcher's ability as it is their handedness. I'd rather have [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=5523295]this[/url] come in to face [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=5348862]this[/url] instead of [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=5475870]this[/url]. Bringing in a reliever based on the current pitcher's handedness doesn't make sense.
shep1582
if you have a good vs RHP lineup in, and several guys aren't nearly as good vs LHP, you gain an advantage when the LH RP comes in. It's pretty simple, really.
not every owner micromanages his team, and if a guy is in the red and cannot participate in that game and he is the perfect choice to pinch hit in these situations, you've gained an advantage.
I didn't expect there to be such rancor over this idea.
The Sparky idea isn't one I'm supporting, just a point I made. I'm not trying to use that strategy, simply trying to suggest an enhancement. Why so negative, chess?
August 04, 2009 at 12:49AM View BBCode
well. it makes sense for two reasons:if you have a good vs RHP lineup in, and several guys aren't nearly as good vs LHP, you gain an advantage when the LH RP comes in. It's pretty simple, really.
not every owner micromanages his team, and if a guy is in the red and cannot participate in that game and he is the perfect choice to pinch hit in these situations, you've gained an advantage.
I didn't expect there to be such rancor over this idea.
The Sparky idea isn't one I'm supporting, just a point I made. I'm not trying to use that strategy, simply trying to suggest an enhancement. Why so negative, chess?
chessmyantidrug
August 04, 2009 at 05:17AM View BBCode
I don't really see my stance as negative since I'm supporting the overall idea, just not your implementation. Because it's not how modern bullpens are used. The handedness of the starter should have no bearing on the handedness of the reliever to replace him. ABE should look at the hitters at the plate, on deck and in the hole.
dirtdevil
i mean if your starting pitcher was a righty, do you really want to automatically bring in a lefty in a situation where he'd be facing two right-handed hitters right away? or do you bring in a righty and then the lefty down the road when the lefthanded hitters come back up? because the 'modern' bullpen chooses option 2. i would absolutely support something that would accomplish that, but to just do it on an every-other basis seems counterproductive to me.
August 04, 2009 at 08:59PM View BBCode
again, i have to agree with chess. what sparky anderson did in the mid-70's is hardly an indicator of how a 'modern' bullpen is used. while i can see that against a team with some platoon hitters that it might be benificial to bring in a pitchers who plays into their weaknesses rather than their stregnths, i don't see where it makes sense to do so on a blanket 'i the last guy was a righty bring in a lefty' sort of logic. that kind of matchup is going to be done on a batter being faced basis, rather than who the last pitcher was.i mean if your starting pitcher was a righty, do you really want to automatically bring in a lefty in a situation where he'd be facing two right-handed hitters right away? or do you bring in a righty and then the lefty down the road when the lefthanded hitters come back up? because the 'modern' bullpen chooses option 2. i would absolutely support something that would accomplish that, but to just do it on an every-other basis seems counterproductive to me.
Enocelot
I would like that.
August 07, 2009 at 08:56AM View BBCode
I wonder how much work it would be to simply create a "Lefty Specialist" slot and set parameters for use, simliar to the closer slot.... I suppose it would be difficult to set the parameters to achieve the desired sim.... but should be doable.I would like that.
chessmyantidrug
Perhaps there can be an option saying something like "Designate __________ as the lefty specialist." There would be a drop-down box with Middle Relief A, Middle Relief B and maybe Setup Man as well as Don't Use This Option. And when the next two or three opposing hitters have worse ratings against left-handed pitchers, ABE brings in the southpaw in certain situations. Maybe there's an option that says "Only use lefty specialist if leading by no more than __ runs, tied or trailing by no more than __ runs." So that special southpaw doesn't come into the game during a blowout and would be available the next day.
August 07, 2009 at 09:57AM View BBCode
I don't think it would be too difficult. And the lefty probably wouldn't be much of a specialist. I imagine a lot of teams have really left-handed lineups, especially contenders. My CRL team has two right-handed hitters with six left-handed hitters. My IRL team has one right-handed hitter with three left-handed hitters and four switch hitters.Perhaps there can be an option saying something like "Designate __________ as the lefty specialist." There would be a drop-down box with Middle Relief A, Middle Relief B and maybe Setup Man as well as Don't Use This Option. And when the next two or three opposing hitters have worse ratings against left-handed pitchers, ABE brings in the southpaw in certain situations. Maybe there's an option that says "Only use lefty specialist if leading by no more than __ runs, tied or trailing by no more than __ runs." So that special southpaw doesn't come into the game during a blowout and would be available the next day.
shep1582
what i am suggesting is the only other option I see. I set my lineups VLHP and VRHP. when it's set, it's set, but only vs the SP. if you bring in a LHP against a good hitting vs RHP, there's a distinct chance that one or two of the players in the lineup are not as good vs LHP (there's also the chance they are better).
if my RHP is knocked out in the 5th inning, a LHP would be my choice. I actually have a lefty righty setup in my pens so that each successive pitcher is otherhanded.
September 01, 2009 at 12:43AM View BBCode
right. I don't think ABE can be programmed to do EXACTLY what MLB managers do, i.e. cherry pick matchups.what i am suggesting is the only other option I see. I set my lineups VLHP and VRHP. when it's set, it's set, but only vs the SP. if you bring in a LHP against a good hitting vs RHP, there's a distinct chance that one or two of the players in the lineup are not as good vs LHP (there's also the chance they are better).
if my RHP is knocked out in the 5th inning, a LHP would be my choice. I actually have a lefty righty setup in my pens so that each successive pitcher is otherhanded.
chessmyantidrug
September 01, 2009 at 02:19AM View BBCode
I still don't see any logic in bringing in a left-handed pitcher to relieve a right-handed pitcher based on the simple fact it throws with the opposite hand. We should be allowed the option to bring in a reliever based on the hitter's attributes, not the previous pitcher's handedness.
shep1582
not all hitter's are as good vs LHP as they are against RHP, and vice versa.
is that clear?
this is especially true of bench players, who play when the starters are tired.
if an owner has platoons working, it's because some of the players he has are better vs one or the other of the "handedness" of the opposing pitcher.
is that clear?
so, if I bring in a LHP vs the RHP lineup of my opponent, there is a chance that his lineup will be weaker, because ABE now changes to the grades of the hitters vs LHP, which, in all likelihood, will not be the same.
got it?
September 03, 2009 at 10:19PM View BBCode
ok, let me try again.not all hitter's are as good vs LHP as they are against RHP, and vice versa.
is that clear?
this is especially true of bench players, who play when the starters are tired.
if an owner has platoons working, it's because some of the players he has are better vs one or the other of the "handedness" of the opposing pitcher.
is that clear?
so, if I bring in a LHP vs the RHP lineup of my opponent, there is a chance that his lineup will be weaker, because ABE now changes to the grades of the hitters vs LHP, which, in all likelihood, will not be the same.
got it?
cubfan531
September 03, 2009 at 11:33PM View BBCode
It's a suggested OPTION. Meaning if you don't like it, don't use it.
shep1582
I explained the logic. As cubs said, it would be an option.
September 04, 2009 at 12:55AM View BBCode
Originally posted by chessmyantidrug
I still don't see any logic in bringing in a left-handed pitcher to relieve a right-handed pitcher based on the simple fact it throws with the opposite hand. We should be allowed the option to bring in a reliever based on the hitter's attributes, not the previous pitcher's handedness.
I explained the logic. As cubs said, it would be an option.
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