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FuriousGiorge
[Edited on 1-6-2010 by FuriousGiorge]
Hall of Fame
January 06, 2010 at 09:56PM View BBCode
Should we talk about this? Because....[Edited on 1-6-2010 by FuriousGiorge]
tm4559
(it was kind of pro forma though, no? they have been voting in guys lately for sentimental reasons, everybody kind of loves the Hawk. i don't know how they make the votes count up to keep alomar out on the first try, but they did. i still maintain spitting on that clown was way too nice.)
January 06, 2010 at 09:59PM View BBCode
i did kind of feel like that when i saw the results.(it was kind of pro forma though, no? they have been voting in guys lately for sentimental reasons, everybody kind of loves the Hawk. i don't know how they make the votes count up to keep alomar out on the first try, but they did. i still maintain spitting on that clown was way too nice.)
FuriousGiorge
January 06, 2010 at 10:01PM View BBCode
Well, I'd rather not have this turn into "bash the Hawk" because I think it's boring to complain about who does get in. The faceplant is for the vote totals for Raines, and Alomar, and Edgar Martinez, all of whom should be in.
(Eric)
January 06, 2010 at 10:02PM View BBCode
So, is Tim Raines just not even someone that's ever going to be seriously considered?
tm4559
oh i agree (the hawk does has some sort of a case, although certainly there will be bashing). almomar is just bewildering (although once upon a time, the writers kept dimaggio out on the first try too). some of those others might get in sometime. i have doubts edgar martinez ever does, although he was... you know. AWESOMES.
January 06, 2010 at 10:05PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Well, I'd rather not have this turn into "bash the Hawk" because I think it's boring to complain about who does get in. The faceplant is for the vote totals for Raines, and Alomar, and Edgar Martinez, all of whom should be in.
oh i agree (the hawk does has some sort of a case, although certainly there will be bashing). almomar is just bewildering (although once upon a time, the writers kept dimaggio out on the first try too). some of those others might get in sometime. i have doubts edgar martinez ever does, although he was... you know. AWESOMES.
Jon
Yeah......
January 06, 2010 at 10:06PM View BBCode
Bert Blyleven was 5 votes short. 5 voters turned in a blank ballot.Yeah......
dirtdevil
January 06, 2010 at 10:06PM View BBCode
raines played his best years in montreal without dawson's mvp in chicago to balance it. so, pretty much no.
FuriousGiorge
January 06, 2010 at 10:07PM View BBCode
I don't know. His total moved up this year, but he started out pretty damn low. I think 50/50 is probably generous.
ME
January 06, 2010 at 10:11PM View BBCode
He's got 13 more years I believe, so in 10 years there might be a few more younger, better informed voters and a few fewer RBI dinosaurs.
dirtdevil
(how on earth do kevin appier, pat hentgen and david segui get a vote each?)
January 06, 2010 at 10:14PM View BBCode
please let's not start that nonsense again.(how on earth do kevin appier, pat hentgen and david segui get a vote each?)
tm4559
January 06, 2010 at 10:15PM View BBCode
a "few more" is kind of ok. a "few fewer" is a happyesque mangling of a heretofore functional language.
FuriousGiorge
I'm missing something here.
January 06, 2010 at 10:16PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
please let's not start that nonsense again.
I'm missing something here.
dirtdevil
we go for centuries without hearing anything from ME and every time he pops up it's to ramble on about how ops is the only metric for evaluating a ballplayer. it gets tedious.
(seriously, david segui?)
January 06, 2010 at 10:18PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by dirtdevil
please let's not start that nonsense again.
I'm missing something here.
we go for centuries without hearing anything from ME and every time he pops up it's to ramble on about how ops is the only metric for evaluating a ballplayer. it gets tedious.
(seriously, david segui?)
tworoosters
I can help you out with that. 539 guys voted, Alomar got 397 votes which is (397/593) 73.7%. The Hall of Fame requires 75% for admission.
Personally I have no problem with Dawson in the Hall of Fame, he was an awesome player.
I'm a bit surprised Blyleven didn't get in, the web sites have been drumming up his credentials like mad, and he's been shameless in [url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34599423/ns/sports-baseball/?ns=sports-baseball]his own self promotion[/url] but I figure he's a lock next year in a weak first time class (Bagwell is the only "non juicer" of note), along with Alomar.
I was once again saddened by the lack of support for Tim Raines, although at least his % increased, and Martinez.
Edgar is fighting the double backlash of being a DH and not having any post season success but I think his support was encouraging in a way, 36% for a first ballot is pretty solid.
The Raines thing is just bizarre to me. Is it the cocaine ? Seriously, or did a high percentage of these writers simply not watch the game between 1982-1993 when Raines was the best top of the order hitter in baseball not named "Ricky Henderson" ?
January 06, 2010 at 10:18PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
i i don't know how they make the votes count up to keep alomar out on the first try, but they did.
I can help you out with that. 539 guys voted, Alomar got 397 votes which is (397/593) 73.7%. The Hall of Fame requires 75% for admission.
Personally I have no problem with Dawson in the Hall of Fame, he was an awesome player.
I'm a bit surprised Blyleven didn't get in, the web sites have been drumming up his credentials like mad, and he's been shameless in [url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34599423/ns/sports-baseball/?ns=sports-baseball]his own self promotion[/url] but I figure he's a lock next year in a weak first time class (Bagwell is the only "non juicer" of note), along with Alomar.
I was once again saddened by the lack of support for Tim Raines, although at least his % increased, and Martinez.
Edgar is fighting the double backlash of being a DH and not having any post season success but I think his support was encouraging in a way, 36% for a first ballot is pretty solid.
The Raines thing is just bizarre to me. Is it the cocaine ? Seriously, or did a high percentage of these writers simply not watch the game between 1982-1993 when Raines was the best top of the order hitter in baseball not named "Ricky Henderson" ?
tworoosters
Well Hentgen won a Cy Young, more amazing to me is that Eric Karros got 2 votes.
January 06, 2010 at 10:23PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
please let's not start that nonsense again.
(how on earth do kevin appier, pat hentgen and david segui get a vote each?)
Well Hentgen won a Cy Young, more amazing to me is that Eric Karros got 2 votes.
Jon
If voters can be convinced to vote for relievers, they can be convinced to vote for a DH.
Did you watch the '95 ALDS?
January 06, 2010 at 10:24PM View BBCode
Edgar is fighting the double backlash of being a DH
If voters can be convinced to vote for relievers, they can be convinced to vote for a DH.
and not having any post season success
Did you watch the '95 ALDS?
tm4559
no joke. i was referring to how the collective decision making process and how the total comes up short, but close. you know, the way an election gets decided by a a percentage point, but then we read all this stuff into that percentage point. i know how 75 percent is determined. 3 out of 4. does it get more complicated by adding more figures?
January 06, 2010 at 10:24PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
Originally posted by tm4559
i i don't know how they make the votes count up to keep alomar out on the first try, but they did.
I can help you out with that. 539 guys voted, Alomar got 397 votes which is (397/593) 73.7%. The Hall of Fame requires 75% for admission.
no joke. i was referring to how the collective decision making process and how the total comes up short, but close. you know, the way an election gets decided by a a percentage point, but then we read all this stuff into that percentage point. i know how 75 percent is determined. 3 out of 4. does it get more complicated by adding more figures?
tm4559
kind of like this. the joys of micro decision making and how all those decisions add up to the macro decision.
(how many folks left blyleven off their non blank ballot? more than five? it was more than five, right?)
January 06, 2010 at 10:31PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jon
Bert Blyleven was 5 votes short. 5 voters turned in a blank ballot.
Yeah......
kind of like this. the joys of micro decision making and how all those decisions add up to the macro decision.
(how many folks left blyleven off their non blank ballot? more than five? it was more than five, right?)
tworoosters
Check with Lee Smith on that one
Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear, I was referring to team success.
Martinez played 18 seasons in the majors and a total of 34 games in the post season, during which time he hit .266 and never made it to a World Series.
Edgar was actually a beast in all his Divisonal series but, well, not so good in the Championship Series.
January 06, 2010 at 10:31PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jon
Edgar is fighting the double backlash of being a DH
If voters can be convinced to vote for relievers, they can be convinced to vote for a DH.
Check with Lee Smith on that one
Originally posted by Jon
and not having any post season success
Did you watch the '95 ALDS?
Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear, I was referring to team success.
Martinez played 18 seasons in the majors and a total of 34 games in the post season, during which time he hit .266 and never made it to a World Series.
Edgar was actually a beast in all his Divisonal series but, well, not so good in the Championship Series.
FuriousGiorge
January 06, 2010 at 10:34PM View BBCode
Alright, Lee Smith doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Comparing him to Edgar Martinez is silly.
tworoosters
Actually it was have been much, much more tragic for Blyleven had the 5 blank ballots not been included. Without the blank ballots Blyleven would have been at 74.9% ............ not in.
January 06, 2010 at 10:35PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
Originally posted by Jon
Bert Blyleven was 5 votes short. 5 voters turned in a blank ballot.
Yeah......
kind of like this. the joys of micro decision making and how all those decisions add up to the macro decision.
(how many folks left blyleven off their non blank ballot? more than five? it was more than five, right?)
Actually it was have been much, much more tragic for Blyleven had the 5 blank ballots not been included. Without the blank ballots Blyleven would have been at 74.9% ............ not in.
Jon
I hope the people who don't vote for Edgar because he's a DH also don't vote for Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman because they're only closers.
January 06, 2010 at 10:36PM View formatted
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Yeah, Lee Smith doesn't belong.
I hope the people who don't vote for Edgar because he's a DH also don't vote for Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman because they're only closers.