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folifan19
Cincy Reds
June 22, 2005 at 07:52PM View BBCode
The Reds take two of three from the mighty Cards! I love it. they should fire the GM next and see what happens.
ProfessorFaggenstein
June 22, 2005 at 08:56PM View BBCode
Jim Bowden, Christian Guzman, and Ryan Church for Wily Mo Pena and Felipe Lopez sound good?
folifan19
June 23, 2005 at 12:36PM View BBCode
Pena and Lopez are 1/2 the team. I'll have to pass on that deal. You a Nats fan?
Bengals
Miley, by the way, shouldn't have been fired. I don't follow the team down to every pitch, but to my knowledge Miley has been given very little to work with, only to see key players get hurt (see Griffey, Griffey, Kearns, various pitchers who waited a month or so to admit it, and Griffey), and he's done what he can with it. I think they should have fired Gullet and waited to see what would happen with a better pitching coach. At 14, I've only been following the Reds for about three years, and I've already seen several pitchers fail here only to flourish somewhere else. I'm a hurtin' Reds fan, and things aren't looking up. Maybe the latest shakeup will do the trick. Ha, who am I kidding?
Wow, that's probably my sensible longest post ever.
:(
[Edited on 6-23-2005 by Bengals]
June 23, 2005 at 04:31PM View BBCode
I think they should just get a new manager for every series. If I recall correctly, the same thing happened when Miley first took the helm. Cincy is a baseball trash dump lately. What we really need is a GM who isn't scared to take risks to put a winning team ont the field.Miley, by the way, shouldn't have been fired. I don't follow the team down to every pitch, but to my knowledge Miley has been given very little to work with, only to see key players get hurt (see Griffey, Griffey, Kearns, various pitchers who waited a month or so to admit it, and Griffey), and he's done what he can with it. I think they should have fired Gullet and waited to see what would happen with a better pitching coach. At 14, I've only been following the Reds for about three years, and I've already seen several pitchers fail here only to flourish somewhere else. I'm a hurtin' Reds fan, and things aren't looking up. Maybe the latest shakeup will do the trick. Ha, who am I kidding?
Wow, that's probably my sensible longest post ever.
:(
[Edited on 6-23-2005 by Bengals]
FuriousGiorge
Name one
June 23, 2005 at 04:35PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Bengals
At 14, I've only been following the Reds for about three years, and I've already seen several pitchers fail here only to flourish somewhere else.
Name one
folifan19
Look for Kearns, randa and Aurillia to be traded before deadline. Possibly Milty and or Ortiz. Of course, who wants the two pitching STIFFS! Should have traded kearns for pitching prospect(s) before season began. He's played himself out of almost all his trade value. he is playing well in Louisville. But Brandon Larsen probably is too!
Also agree with the trash pit ref. Being old enough to vividly remember the 1990 WS team, this is hard to hanlde. Makes the Marge Schott days seem not so bad. Atleast there was a big dog to go poo on the field before the game. Now most of the players are the poo on the field during the game:P
We can run, but we can't hide from Furious!
June 23, 2005 at 04:59PM View BBCode
I agree about Miley. Should not have been fired. I think the GM is at fault here. Agree with all your points of why not to fire him. Also am not a big fan of mid-season managerial/coaching staff changes. the only tim ein recent memory that this had a positive effect was last season in Houston. There are probably other time someone might tell about. O'Brien went out and spent the chong, on resigning Wilson, then got Ortiz, uncle Milty, Weathers, Weber, Merker, Randa and Aurillia. All busts with the exception of Randa, Merker and Weathers is coming around.Look for Kearns, randa and Aurillia to be traded before deadline. Possibly Milty and or Ortiz. Of course, who wants the two pitching STIFFS! Should have traded kearns for pitching prospect(s) before season began. He's played himself out of almost all his trade value. he is playing well in Louisville. But Brandon Larsen probably is too!
Also agree with the trash pit ref. Being old enough to vividly remember the 1990 WS team, this is hard to hanlde. Makes the Marge Schott days seem not so bad. Atleast there was a big dog to go poo on the field before the game. Now most of the players are the poo on the field during the game:P
We can run, but we can't hide from Furious!
folifan19
June 23, 2005 at 06:17PM View formatted
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I'm not nearly as obsessed with you as i am with Ignite.
FuriousGiorge
June 23, 2005 at 06:32PM View BBCode
No - you're obsessed with me, you're in love with Ignite.
Bengals
[url=http://http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Lidle]http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Lidle[/url]
Dempster more than Lidle, but definitely two of the most searing examples. (Okay maybe the only two examples, but it's fishy how both had at least some success before and both had success after. They didn't turn into allstars or anything, but they became consistent.)
[Edited on 6-23-2005 by Bengals]
June 23, 2005 at 07:32PM View BBCode
[url=http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Dempster]http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Dempster[/url][url=http://http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Lidle]http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=Lidle[/url]
Dempster more than Lidle, but definitely two of the most searing examples. (Okay maybe the only two examples, but it's fishy how both had at least some success before and both had success after. They didn't turn into allstars or anything, but they became consistent.)
[Edited on 6-23-2005 by Bengals]
folifan19
For some reason I can't get to the Lidle link.
June 23, 2005 at 07:34PM View BBCode
I wouldn't call what Dempster is doing as success, but it is better than what he was doing in Cincy.For some reason I can't get to the Lidle link.
FuriousGiorge
Corey Lidle's a mediocre pitcher who has been lucky so far in Philly considering his meagre strikeout totals.
Both of those pitchers are essentially journeyman types, except for Dempster's 2000 season. Each simply made brief stops in Cincinatti - yeah, they sucked in Cincy, but they sucked elsewhere too.
June 23, 2005 at 07:38PM View BBCode
Dempster was a reclamation project, coming off of a major injury. He certainly hasn't flourished elsewhere - if anything, he's showing that with time, pitchers can come back from injuries, but you have to be patient. I wouldn't call him a poster child for "pitchers get better after leaving the Reds"Corey Lidle's a mediocre pitcher who has been lucky so far in Philly considering his meagre strikeout totals.
Both of those pitchers are essentially journeyman types, except for Dempster's 2000 season. Each simply made brief stops in Cincinatti - yeah, they sucked in Cincy, but they sucked elsewhere too.
Bengals
June 23, 2005 at 07:40PM View BBCode
Graves will probably win the "Relief Man of the Year" award next year after he solves "several minor meachanical flaws" and stops bleaching parts of his hair.
FuriousGiorge
June 23, 2005 at 07:44PM View BBCode
If these pitchers demonstrate anything, it's that the organization has some ability to recognize cheap pitching talent, but then gives up on them after a very short period of time out of impatience. The situation with Graves was just bizarre - a cut off your nose to spite your face sort of thing, where they cut him rather than get value for him through trade simply to say "F you" to him. Don't blame Gullett for management having the attention span and petulant disposition of a 3 year old.
folifan19
June 23, 2005 at 07:44PM View BBCode
Graves was a victim of mismanagement and poor coaching. Also felt the wrath of a GM feeling a lot of heat from ownership in my opinion. also flying the bird toward the stands wasn't a real smart move on his part either.
skierdude44
June 23, 2005 at 07:51PM View BBCode
Danny Graves is a mediocre reliever. He had a few years where he racked up a good number of saves but his strikeout to walk ratio is pretty crappy and his era has never been that great although he had a few decent seasons but even then his k/BB ratio sucked. In 2000 he posted a 2.56 era but struck out only 53 in 91 innings and walked 42. That's way too many walks and not enough strikeouts. The good closers are usually up around a strike out per inning and walk much fewer than than they strike out. In some seasons Graves walked nearly as many as he struck out.
FuriousGiorge
June 23, 2005 at 08:08PM View BBCode
I wouldn't call him mediocre. Yes he has low strikeout rates but from 1998-2002 he was able to post better than league average ERA's in spite of that fact. And this is over several hundred innings, so sample size bias isn't really an issue. No, he's not a great reliever, but he is a good one and could have brought value to the Reds if they hadn't acted like babies and just cut him.
skierdude44
June 23, 2005 at 08:18PM View BBCode
True, over his career his era is 4.00 but from 03-05 his era is 5.66 including a healthy 7.71 era this season (albeit in only 21 innings). His 2003 season was particularly impressive when they tried to convert him to a starter and he went 4-15 with a 5.33 era, 60 strikeouts and 41 walks in 169 innings. Given the fact that most relievers are inconsistent from season to season because the sample sizes from year to year are relatively small he's probably not a bad guy to have around but he's not going to go set the world on fire now that he's left the Reds.
Bengals
June 24, 2005 at 01:31AM View BBCode
Excuse me for calling Dempster and Lidle succesful, it's just that with the s*** pitching we've put up with in the last few years, everything under 5.00 is beggining to look really really good.
Bengals
June 24, 2005 at 01:31AM View BBCode
Excuse me for calling Dempster and Lidle succesful, it's just that with the s*** pitching we've put up with in the last few years, everything under 5.00 is beggining to look really really good.
barterer2002
As far as Gullett goes, I actually think he's done a decent job with the slop he's been handed over the last decade. Its true that you can't name many Reds pitchers who were very good, but I'd say there were several that were better than the Reds had any right to expect them to be, such as Paul Wilson, Felix Heredia, Jimmy Haynes, Elmer Dessens, Gabe White, Osvaldo Fernandez and Steve Parriss. The problem was that each of these pitchers performed above expectations for a limited time in Cincy before reverting back to their natural levels and the Reds were only smart enough to trade away Heredia before he reverted back. I'd give credit to Gullet for getting anything out of these guys. In general, they're a bunch of stiffs--and they're the best of the bunch that he's had to work with.
June 24, 2005 at 02:44AM View BBCode
The Reds are what they are. They haven't had any pitching in 5-8 years. They've got a first baseman with Steve Jeltz type power but who can hit for average. They've got a future Hall of Famer in centerfield that they can't do anything with because he can't stay healthy and nobody wants to pay his salary for an injury waiting to happen, they've got mediorce to below average players around most of the other positions. For some reason they spent money in the offseason thinking they could compete this year. Milton was almost guaranteed to give up 40 home runs and the Reds knew it but ignored it saying he would win anyway, ignoring the fact that good run support only wins games when it actually happens in real life and not on paper. Still, I think the Reds have made some decent trades with what they've been dealt over the past 3 seasons. The purge of 2003, ridiculed by Reds fans at the time, brought the only two starting pitchers having any sort of a shot at decency this year, Claussen and Harang. The Todd Jones deal last year was great, but then how tough is it to rip off Ed Wade.As far as Gullett goes, I actually think he's done a decent job with the slop he's been handed over the last decade. Its true that you can't name many Reds pitchers who were very good, but I'd say there were several that were better than the Reds had any right to expect them to be, such as Paul Wilson, Felix Heredia, Jimmy Haynes, Elmer Dessens, Gabe White, Osvaldo Fernandez and Steve Parriss. The problem was that each of these pitchers performed above expectations for a limited time in Cincy before reverting back to their natural levels and the Reds were only smart enough to trade away Heredia before he reverted back. I'd give credit to Gullet for getting anything out of these guys. In general, they're a bunch of stiffs--and they're the best of the bunch that he's had to work with.
ME
(count the seconds before the "fuck you" response from the reds fans)
[url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4155]Seriously.[/url]
June 24, 2005 at 03:33AM View BBCode
How is that [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5944]$21M pitcher[/url] doing?(count the seconds before the "fuck you" response from the reds fans)
[url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4155]Seriously.[/url]
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