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indychris3
Umps Blow the game
October 13, 2005 at 03:17AM View BBCode
well the fucking homeplate umpire blew the Angel game. that ball was cleanly cought i can't ever type right now i am so pissed.
FiveToolPlayer
October 13, 2005 at 04:05AM View BBCode
That was a terrible call. I would be really mad if I was an Angels fan. My major problem would be that the ump made the out signal with his arm. It looked kind of like a strike call but I would have assumed out if I was a player.
whiskybear
I feel sorry for both sides, really. It cost the Angels a ball game, though who knows what would have happened in the 10th and on. But for the White Sox---whatever they do from here has the lingering stench of Doug Eddings attached to it.
October 13, 2005 at 04:53AM View BBCode
Andrew is in a dark place right now...I feel sorry for both sides, really. It cost the Angels a ball game, though who knows what would have happened in the 10th and on. But for the White Sox---whatever they do from here has the lingering stench of Doug Eddings attached to it.
Isaiah4110
October 13, 2005 at 07:24AM View BBCode
Actually it wouldn't have cost them the game if Josh Paul had played until he heard the out called or if Santana hadn't served up 3 meatballs to Crede. Calls happen. That one was very close. When you can play the game perfectly then you can expect the Umps to be perfect.
DougB
i was wanting Scioscia to call the entire team to second base and calm everyone down. if I was an Angel fan I would have wanted him to do that... to hell with the network. Just take 2 minutes and refocus. take out your anger in a focused way on playing the game with purpose.
October 13, 2005 at 01:32PM View BBCode
it was one of the worst things I've ever seen in baseball. he called the strike... then made a second out motion... then got confused and second guessed himself when the batter ran to first. The third base ump was not paying attention and the Angels got royally screwed.i was wanting Scioscia to call the entire team to second base and calm everyone down. if I was an Angel fan I would have wanted him to do that... to hell with the network. Just take 2 minutes and refocus. take out your anger in a focused way on playing the game with purpose.
FuriousGiorge
Veggie Tales, do you really expect a catcher to continue with a play after the umpire signals for an out? That every time an inning ends on a strikeout he throws over to first base, you know, just in case? Ridiculous. The umpire blew it, and it ended up costing the Angels the game. Stop making excuses.
October 13, 2005 at 02:43PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Isaiah4110
Actually it wouldn't have cost them the game if Josh Paul had played until he heard the out called or if Santana hadn't served up 3 meatballs to Crede. Calls happen. That one was very close. When you can play the game perfectly then you can expect the Umps to be perfect.
Veggie Tales, do you really expect a catcher to continue with a play after the umpire signals for an out? That every time an inning ends on a strikeout he throws over to first base, you know, just in case? Ridiculous. The umpire blew it, and it ended up costing the Angels the game. Stop making excuses.
DougB
October 13, 2005 at 03:14PM View BBCode
on every force out at second to end an inning the infielder should throw to first "to make extra sure" of a 4th out in case it ends up being a 3rd out when the ump changes his mind.
ironhorse
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse]
October 13, 2005 at 03:59PM View BBCode
Sure it was bad. Chicago pulled a fast one. Truth is, A.J was out, but he thought the ball was dropped. However, an out call was made by the ump, then another was made; either he too had thought that paul dropped the third strike or again, he got crossed-up. Either way you look at it he blew the call which set up the steal then the double by Crede. Sure it was a cheap way to win, but then again it's the postseason--to hell with intergrity and honor; ask A-Rod.[color=Black][/color]:lol:[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse]
barterer2002
Sure it was bad. Chicago pulled a fast one. Truth is, A.J was out, but he thought the ball was dropped. However, an out call was made by the ump, then another was made; either he too had thought that paul dropped the third strike or again, he got crossed-up. Either way you look at it he blew the call which set up the steal then the double by Crede. Sure it was a cheap way to win, but then again it's the postseason--to hell with intergrity and honor; ask A-Rod.[color=Black][/color]:lol:
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse] [/quote]
How exactly do you figure Chicago pulled a fast one? I really don't think that anyone feels that the White Sox did anything wrong it was the Umpire who made the mistake. Saying the White Sox pulled a fast one and questioning their integrity seems a bit strange for me. Did the call directly result in the White Sox win? Absolutely. Did the White Sox pull a fast one. No. The ump blew it that's all.
October 13, 2005 at 04:21PM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by ironhorse[/i]
Sure it was bad. Chicago pulled a fast one. Truth is, A.J was out, but he thought the ball was dropped. However, an out call was made by the ump, then another was made; either he too had thought that paul dropped the third strike or again, he got crossed-up. Either way you look at it he blew the call which set up the steal then the double by Crede. Sure it was a cheap way to win, but then again it's the postseason--to hell with intergrity and honor; ask A-Rod.[color=Black][/color]:lol:
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse] [/quote]
How exactly do you figure Chicago pulled a fast one? I really don't think that anyone feels that the White Sox did anything wrong it was the Umpire who made the mistake. Saying the White Sox pulled a fast one and questioning their integrity seems a bit strange for me. Did the call directly result in the White Sox win? Absolutely. Did the White Sox pull a fast one. No. The ump blew it that's all.
JulioF
Am I the only person in the world who was paying attention to what was about the 7th different replay? The one where the centerfield camera had a nice zoomed-in replay which was focused on the cather's glove as the ball bounced off the ground, up into the glove? It was hard to see, but it definitely was short-hopped.
The ball was within the confines of the glove, but not yet caught when it hit the dirt and bounced up.
Ump Eddings had that portion of the play right. It was his subsequent physical ruling that was atrocious.
October 13, 2005 at 04:43PM View BBCode
Wow!Am I the only person in the world who was paying attention to what was about the 7th different replay? The one where the centerfield camera had a nice zoomed-in replay which was focused on the cather's glove as the ball bounced off the ground, up into the glove? It was hard to see, but it definitely was short-hopped.
The ball was within the confines of the glove, but not yet caught when it hit the dirt and bounced up.
Ump Eddings had that portion of the play right. It was his subsequent physical ruling that was atrocious.
ironhorse
Here is my explanation. There were probably a few in that sox dugout that saw that hey, Paul did catch the ball, and that A.J. was out. But did you really expected anyone from that dugout to point that out, definitely not, and especially not when it was obvious that the home ump was confused. Then again, who tells someone in a fight when their shoes aren't tied? But it comes down to what the ump sees.
October 13, 2005 at 05:05PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002[color=Black][/color]
Originally posted by ironhorse
Sure it was bad. Chicago pulled a fast one. Truth is, A.J was out, but he thought the ball was dropped. However, an out call was made by the ump, then another was made; either he too had thought that paul dropped the third strike or again, he got crossed-up. Either way you look at it he blew the call which set up the steal then the double by Crede. Sure it was a cheap way to win, but then again it's the postseason--to hell with intergrity and honor; ask A-Rod.[color=Black][/color]:lol:
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse]
How exactly do you figure Chicago pulled a fast one? I really don't think that anyone feels that the White Sox did anything wrong it was the Umpire who made the mistake. Saying the White Sox pulled a fast one and questioning their integrity seems a bit strange for me. Did the call directly result in the White Sox win? Absolutely. Did the White Sox pull a fast one. No. The ump blew it that's all.
Here is my explanation. There were probably a few in that sox dugout that saw that hey, Paul did catch the ball, and that A.J. was out. But did you really expected anyone from that dugout to point that out, definitely not, and especially not when it was obvious that the home ump was confused. Then again, who tells someone in a fight when their shoes aren't tied? But it comes down to what the ump sees.
yankeekid
October 13, 2005 at 05:06PM View BBCode
I didn't actually get to see the play but the call sounds horrible. Umps should either get the call right or be fired or something. Does anyone think they should put replays into baseball that help determine calls like football or would that just ruin the game?
FuriousGiorge
October 13, 2005 at 05:06PM View BBCode
Whether it was caught or not is irrelevant. The question is, did the ump signal the batter out? If he did, the play should have been over - you can't expect the Angels to act as if it's still going on after the fact. In football, once a ref blows his whistle the play is over. If replays show that the running back clearly fumbled the ball and it was recovered by the other team, it doesn't matter - as soon as that whistle blows, the play is dead, so a challenge can't possibly change the outcome of the play. As soon as Eddings calls the batter out, the play should be considered over whether he caught the ball or not.
ironhorse
They said that the DH would, but look at how that turned out, it helped offense. Replays would be good, they would help the judgement of the umps. Then again it takes away from the tradionalist view that they are the ones that makes the calls, not tape.[color=Black][/color]
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse]
October 13, 2005 at 05:14PM View BBCode
Originally posted by yankeekid[color=Black][/color]
I didn't actually get to see the play but the call sounds horrible. Umps should either get the call right or be fired or something. Does anyone think they should put replays into baseball that help determine calls like football or would that just ruin the game?
They said that the DH would, but look at how that turned out, it helped offense. Replays would be good, they would help the judgement of the umps. Then again it takes away from the tradionalist view that they are the ones that makes the calls, not tape.[color=Black][/color]
[Edited on 10-13-2005 by ironhorse]
yankeekid
October 13, 2005 at 05:19PM View BBCode
Having the excitement of a blown call can be exciting sometimes. I mean its disgusting when its a really bad one like this but when its a bang bang call it makes it a little... just more interesting. I enjoy getting calls in the favor of the Yanks or team I'm rooting for but when theres such a huge call like this it kinda seems undeserved that your team won the game. I would still take it over the right call in my favor in a big game but it takes away some of the happiness of winning when you know it was unfair.
whiskybear
Bravo, Jeter. Another post for the old scrapbook.
Julio: I recall the replay that you refer to. The ball does clearly make a slight move up into the pocket of the glove, but not because it made contact with the ground--it actually hits the padding that lines the perimeter of the glove and bounces into the pocket. Josh Paul's body language is another thing to consider. He gets up and flips the ball to the mound. When a catcher secures a third strike on a hop, he invariably will get up and tag the batter. Paul knew he caught it, he got the out call, he didn't need to tag A.J.
October 13, 2005 at 07:00PM View BBCode
Having the excitement of a blown call can be exciting sometimes. I mean its disgusting when its a really bad one like this but when its a bang bang call it makes it a little... just more interesting. I enjoy getting calls in the favor of the Yanks or team I'm rooting for but when theres such a huge call like this it kinda seems undeserved that your team won the game. I would still take it over the right call in my favor in a big game but it takes away some of the happiness of winning when you know it was unfair.
Bravo, Jeter. Another post for the old scrapbook.
Julio: I recall the replay that you refer to. The ball does clearly make a slight move up into the pocket of the glove, but not because it made contact with the ground--it actually hits the padding that lines the perimeter of the glove and bounces into the pocket. Josh Paul's body language is another thing to consider. He gets up and flips the ball to the mound. When a catcher secures a third strike on a hop, he invariably will get up and tag the batter. Paul knew he caught it, he got the out call, he didn't need to tag A.J.
Isaiah4110
Wait, Josh Paul has eyes in the back of his head? He never looked at the ump so how could he have possibly seen any motion the ump made?
Bottom line: The ANGELS blew it.
October 13, 2005 at 10:16PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by Isaiah4110
Actually it wouldn't have cost them the game if Josh Paul had played until he heard the out called or if Santana hadn't served up 3 meatballs to Crede. Calls happen. That one was very close. When you can play the game perfectly then you can expect the Umps to be perfect.
Veggie Tales, do you really expect a catcher to continue with a play after the umpire signals for an out? That every time an inning ends on a strikeout he throws over to first base, you know, just in case? Ridiculous. The umpire blew it, and it ended up costing the Angels the game. Stop making excuses.
Wait, Josh Paul has eyes in the back of his head? He never looked at the ump so how could he have possibly seen any motion the ump made?
Bottom line: The ANGELS blew it.
barterer2002
Well I'll admit that I have to watch a replay to see if Paul actually turned and looked at the ump but why are you assuming that the Ump is a mute. Most umpires will actually say the call as they make it. I don't know if he said Out or not here but it is certainly usual practice.
October 13, 2005 at 10:21PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Isaiah4110
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by Isaiah4110
Actually it wouldn't have cost them the game if Josh Paul had played until he heard the out called or if Santana hadn't served up 3 meatballs to Crede. Calls happen. That one was very close. When you can play the game perfectly then you can expect the Umps to be perfect.
Veggie Tales, do you really expect a catcher to continue with a play after the umpire signals for an out? That every time an inning ends on a strikeout he throws over to first base, you know, just in case? Ridiculous. The umpire blew it, and it ended up costing the Angels the game. Stop making excuses.
Wait, Josh Paul has eyes in the back of his head? He never looked at the ump so how could he have possibly seen any motion the ump made?
Bottom line: The ANGELS blew it.
Well I'll admit that I have to watch a replay to see if Paul actually turned and looked at the ump but why are you assuming that the Ump is a mute. Most umpires will actually say the call as they make it. I don't know if he said Out or not here but it is certainly usual practice.
Isaiah4110
October 13, 2005 at 10:27PM View BBCode
Barterer, that's exactly what I'm saying. Why do you think that Perzynski started running to first after turning toward the dugout? After the game he said he didn't hear the ump call him out. Play until you hear the call.
drew
I guess I am tired of hearing about this after listening to talk radio yap about it all day.
Hopefully the Angels can win the next three and we can all just move on.
October 13, 2005 at 10:34PM View BBCode
The ump messed up, but that is not why the Angels lost. I am not going to make excuses. I did feel for Escobar to end up losing after pitching lights out, but nonetheless, they had their chances.I guess I am tired of hearing about this after listening to talk radio yap about it all day.
Hopefully the Angels can win the next three and we can all just move on.
FuriousGiorge
October 13, 2005 at 10:42PM View BBCode
Fair enough, from the only cool (as far as I can remember) Angels fan on this board.
lvnwrth
1. Home plate umpire. Lousy call. I saw all the angles, too, and I didn't see a clear "short hop" that someone addressed earlier. In any event, having been a catcher for 15 years of competetive baseball, and an umpire for another 20 after that, I assure you there's no way Eddings saw that short hop. The ball was below the catcher's glove, and the catcher was between Eddings and the ball/glove. There's physically no way he sees that ball, even if it did skip. As an umpire, you can't call what you don't see.
2. Catcher. The guy OBVIOUSLY thought he caught the ball. No way you try to "steal" that play in the playoffs, especially when all you have to do is tag Pyrzinksi (sp??) or throw the ball to first base. BUT...you can't assume anything. Absent a clear "Out!" call from the home plate umpire, Paul should have thrown to first or made the tag. Did he catch the ball? I think he did. But until the umpire says something, he has to assume the worst.
3. The third base umpire. He was not paying attention. He also failed one of the cardinal rules of umpiring. "On an appeal, even if you don't have a clue, be decisive in your call."
4. The first and second base umpires IF they saw the play and said nothing. Who was the crew chief of this bunch, anyway?
October 13, 2005 at 11:41PM View BBCode
Who screwed up on this play?1. Home plate umpire. Lousy call. I saw all the angles, too, and I didn't see a clear "short hop" that someone addressed earlier. In any event, having been a catcher for 15 years of competetive baseball, and an umpire for another 20 after that, I assure you there's no way Eddings saw that short hop. The ball was below the catcher's glove, and the catcher was between Eddings and the ball/glove. There's physically no way he sees that ball, even if it did skip. As an umpire, you can't call what you don't see.
2. Catcher. The guy OBVIOUSLY thought he caught the ball. No way you try to "steal" that play in the playoffs, especially when all you have to do is tag Pyrzinksi (sp??) or throw the ball to first base. BUT...you can't assume anything. Absent a clear "Out!" call from the home plate umpire, Paul should have thrown to first or made the tag. Did he catch the ball? I think he did. But until the umpire says something, he has to assume the worst.
3. The third base umpire. He was not paying attention. He also failed one of the cardinal rules of umpiring. "On an appeal, even if you don't have a clue, be decisive in your call."
4. The first and second base umpires IF they saw the play and said nothing. Who was the crew chief of this bunch, anyway?