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Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Best pitcher in MLB now
| Poll: Best pitcher in MLB now | |
|---|---|
| Jake Peavy | 5 |
| Johan Santana | 16 |
| C.C. Sabathia | 1 |
| Josh Beckett | 5 |
| King Felix Hernandez | 0 |
| Dice-K | 0 |
| Brandon Webb | 7 |
| Dan Haren | 0 |
| Brad Penny | 1 |
| Ben Sheets | 1 |
| Carlos Zambrano | 2 |
| Fausto Carmona | 0 |
| Chris Young | 0 |
| Erik Bedard | 0 |
| John Lackey | 0 |
barterer2002
It can certainly be argued that Juan Marichal was the best pitcher during the years of 1963-69. During those 7 seasons he won 21+ games 6 times. He led the league in wins twice and was in the top 5 all six seasons.
During those seven years he never posted and ERA over 2.76, leading the league once and finishing in the top 5 four times and the top ten every season.
Go through any major statistical pitching category during those 7 years and Juan will be in there every season.
He was never the best pitcher in any of those seasons. That doesnt' mean he wasn't the best pitcher in baseball over those seasons but just that he didn't have the best season in any year.
So no, even if Peavy has the best season this year it does not make him the best pitcher in baseball.
April 15, 2008 at 02:41AM View BBCode
Originally posted by JakePeavy44
I'm still a knowledgeable baseball fan, and if Jake Peavy has a better year this year that would pretty much prove my point right?
It can certainly be argued that Juan Marichal was the best pitcher during the years of 1963-69. During those 7 seasons he won 21+ games 6 times. He led the league in wins twice and was in the top 5 all six seasons.
During those seven years he never posted and ERA over 2.76, leading the league once and finishing in the top 5 four times and the top ten every season.
Go through any major statistical pitching category during those 7 years and Juan will be in there every season.
He was never the best pitcher in any of those seasons. That doesnt' mean he wasn't the best pitcher in baseball over those seasons but just that he didn't have the best season in any year.
So no, even if Peavy has the best season this year it does not make him the best pitcher in baseball.
whiskybear
i'm assuming that i'm one of the other two, and depressingly i'm certainly closer to 40 than 20. [/quote]
Nah, I know from the movie brackets that you are married.
It was Grich and nbn_chk that I'm less acquainted with, but assume they're older (perhaps much older) than young Peavy here.
April 15, 2008 at 03:57AM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by dirtdevil[/i]
i'm assuming that i'm one of the other two, and depressingly i'm certainly closer to 40 than 20. [/quote]
Nah, I know from the movie brackets that you are married.
It was Grich and nbn_chk that I'm less acquainted with, but assume they're older (perhaps much older) than young Peavy here.
JakePeavy44
1. TO ALLIf it would be possible I prefer to be called Martin, I'm not worthy of being called Jake or Peavy.
2. to Dirt Devil I'm not saying based on stats right now, Im saying if by season's end he has a much better season than Santana who I predict has a down year compared to Peavy, than that would prove my point. for instance:
2008 supposed
Peavy 2.6 ERA 20-8 220 Ks
Santana 3.3 ERA 18-8 200 Ks
In this case wouldn't Peavy be declared the better pitcher at this point?
3. to Barterer I'm not sure if your trying to say that Marichal was the best pitcher during that 7 years, but my argument, is right now Peavy is better, this decade obviously goes to Santana because he pitched in this decade longer than Peavy. But as of now in my opinion Jake is the best.
And if you are saying that Marichal was the best in that time frame thats dumb because Koufax was the best up until he retired in 66, and Gibson and Seaver were also much better during that time frame, Gibson of course in 68 and Seaver in 69, and in 67 he wasnt even the best on his team. At least Jake won a Cy young in his time.
April 15, 2008 at 06:34AM View BBCode
So many different things to combat now, this would be alot easier if I had 1 ally, anyways...1. TO ALLIf it would be possible I prefer to be called Martin, I'm not worthy of being called Jake or Peavy.
2. to Dirt Devil I'm not saying based on stats right now, Im saying if by season's end he has a much better season than Santana who I predict has a down year compared to Peavy, than that would prove my point. for instance:
2008 supposed
Peavy 2.6 ERA 20-8 220 Ks
Santana 3.3 ERA 18-8 200 Ks
In this case wouldn't Peavy be declared the better pitcher at this point?
3. to Barterer I'm not sure if your trying to say that Marichal was the best pitcher during that 7 years, but my argument, is right now Peavy is better, this decade obviously goes to Santana because he pitched in this decade longer than Peavy. But as of now in my opinion Jake is the best.
And if you are saying that Marichal was the best in that time frame thats dumb because Koufax was the best up until he retired in 66, and Gibson and Seaver were also much better during that time frame, Gibson of course in 68 and Seaver in 69, and in 67 he wasnt even the best on his team. At least Jake won a Cy young in his time.
barterer2002
April 15, 2008 at 11:02AM View BBCode
Martin, the point is that you're crowning Peavy based on absolutely no track record and are using three games worth of stats to make your case as well as not even bothering to consider the effect that Petco Park has on Peavy's statistics.
sycophantman
April 15, 2008 at 12:15PM View BBCode
Though, his bold outside the lines use of HTML code is starting to sway me to his side of the argument...
BobbyGrich
I was starting to lose interest in this thread, and then syco pulled me back in. Thank you.
April 15, 2008 at 12:34PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
Though, his bold outside the lines use of HTML code is starting to sway me to his side of the argument...
I was starting to lose interest in this thread, and then syco pulled me back in. Thank you.
Hamilton2
Peavy isn't even the best pitcher in the NL right now. I would take Brandon Webb ahead of Peavy.
Career ERA 3.20 vs. Peavy's 3.28. They pitch in the same division, so they face similar schedules/opponents year after year. (See: [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb§ion2=null&statSet2=null&sortByStat=ERA&statType=2&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame=1&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage2=1&readBoxes=true&HS=true&box7=XXXX425630XXXX&box9=XXXX276371XXXX&box11=XXXX408241XXXX&compare.x=29&compare.y=6]Exhibit A[/url])
Webb has also been far more consistent throughout his career.
Here's my real point though:
Numbers can be made to say anything. There are a good number of pitchers who have a solid shot at the Cy Young award this year. Does winning it automatically make them the "best" in the game?
Martin, we have no problem with you believing that Peavy is the best. We only ask that you afford us the same consideration and let us believe that Santana, Beckett, or even Webb are better than your guy.
[Edited on 4-15-2008 by Hamilton2]
[Edited on 4-15-2008 by Hamilton2]
April 15, 2008 at 02:55PM View BBCode
I really shouldn't do this ... but to argue, simply for the purpose of making a point ...Peavy isn't even the best pitcher in the NL right now. I would take Brandon Webb ahead of Peavy.
Career ERA 3.20 vs. Peavy's 3.28. They pitch in the same division, so they face similar schedules/opponents year after year. (See: [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb§ion2=null&statSet2=null&sortByStat=ERA&statType=2&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame=1&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage2=1&readBoxes=true&HS=true&box7=XXXX425630XXXX&box9=XXXX276371XXXX&box11=XXXX408241XXXX&compare.x=29&compare.y=6]Exhibit A[/url])
Webb has also been far more consistent throughout his career.
Here's my real point though:
Numbers can be made to say anything. There are a good number of pitchers who have a solid shot at the Cy Young award this year. Does winning it automatically make them the "best" in the game?
Martin, we have no problem with you believing that Peavy is the best. We only ask that you afford us the same consideration and let us believe that Santana, Beckett, or even Webb are better than your guy.
[Edited on 4-15-2008 by Hamilton2]
[Edited on 4-15-2008 by Hamilton2]
BobbyGrich
April 15, 2008 at 03:44PM View BBCode
Martin's head is going to explode, his guy is in danger of falling to 4th in the voting.
FuriousGiorge
April 15, 2008 at 03:58PM View BBCode
When you start a poll on a message board for the sole purpose of pumping up some guy that you've never met, and that poll goes off the rails on you immediately, that's when you know you've failed. At life.
jetpac
April 15, 2008 at 04:19PM View BBCode
I'll agree that Peavy has the potential to be the best pitcher in the MLB. But he is by no means the favorite. Santana is definitely the best, Beckett is just as good or better than Peavy in his good years, and Webb is either even or slightly below. But if we're going by potential, then almost any of the guys listed in your poll could become the best pitcher in the MLB. The title of this thread is "Best pitcher in MLB now," and Peavy simply isn't. Sorry to break up the over-20 club of opposition, and I wish I had specific stats to back up my arguments, but I don't have time to look them up right now.
Bones2484
Don't forget that Santana is in the NL now too... Unless you meant to say NL *West*.
April 15, 2008 at 05:38PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Hamilton2
I really shouldn't do this ... but to argue, simply for the purpose of making a point ...
Peavy isn't even the best pitcher in the NL right now. I would take Brandon Webb ahead of Peavy.
Don't forget that Santana is in the NL now too... Unless you meant to say NL *West*.
FuriousGiorge
April 15, 2008 at 05:44PM View BBCode
Of course, Jake Peavy is an awesome pitcher. But when his publicity agent comes in here and can't stop telling everyone about it, and how when they look into the future they see nothing but Jake Peavy as far as the eye can see, then I kind of start to hate Jake Peavy just a little bit and want him to get in some sort of horrible tractor accident that leaves him with his feet and hands having switched places.
whiskybear
Why? He thinks Jews are bad luck.
April 15, 2008 at 05:45PM View BBCode
Did you know Jake Peavy refuses to pitch on Yom Kippur?Why? He thinks Jews are bad luck.
Hamilton2
April 15, 2008 at 05:55PM View BBCode
Thanks Bones. I realized that after posting it. I meant ... NL *West*.
FuriousGiorge
April 15, 2008 at 05:56PM View BBCode
Boy, you sure weren't kidding about that whole liking Alexander Hamilton thing.
whiskybear
April 15, 2008 at 05:58PM View BBCode
People call me Aaron Burr, the way I'm dropping Hamiltons!
FuriousGiorge
April 15, 2008 at 06:00PM View BBCode
Jesus, why not just make an All Your Base joke while you're at it? Have you seen this funny Japanese video with the guys who say "Yatta"? Or that grown man who dresses like Robin Hood? I hear this "Sports Guy" is pretty funny with his clever references, you should check him out.
JakePeavy44
In my opinion Jake winning the CY this yeer makes him the best especially since its over Johan. You guys are entitled to ur opinion I guess but at the end of the year I'm conducting this poll again and then we will see. Unyil then agreed to disagree
April 15, 2008 at 09:07PM View BBCode
well there goes the rational arguements now that Giorge is hereIn my opinion Jake winning the CY this yeer makes him the best especially since its over Johan. You guys are entitled to ur opinion I guess but at the end of the year I'm conducting this poll again and then we will see. Unyil then agreed to disagree
FuriousGiorge
April 15, 2008 at 09:12PM View BBCode
Nobody's disagreeing with anything. You obviously have a time machine, something the rest of us aren't privy to.
DwightKSchrute
Why in the world are we making him pitch another inning? He's obviously won the CY.
April 15, 2008 at 09:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by JakePeavy44
well there goes the rational arguements now that Giorge is here
In my opinion Jake winning the CY this yeer makes him the best especially since its over Johan. You guys are entitled to ur opinion I guess but at the end of the year I'm conducting this poll again and then we will see. Unyil then agreed to disagree
Why in the world are we making him pitch another inning? He's obviously won the CY.
JakePeavy44
I mean after this year 2008 if we wins the Cy this year in my opinion he is the best.
April 16, 2008 at 12:01AM View BBCode
Originally posted by DwightKSchrute
Originally posted by JakePeavy44
well there goes the rational arguements now that Giorge is here
In my opinion Jake winning the CY this yeer makes him the best especially since its over Johan. You guys are entitled to ur opinion I guess but at the end of the year I'm conducting this poll again and then we will see. Unyil then agreed to disagree
Why in the world are we making him pitch another inning? He's obviously won the CY.
I mean after this year 2008 if we wins the Cy this year in my opinion he is the best.
whiskybear
O.K. now you're just being creepy and weird.
April 16, 2008 at 12:03AM View BBCode
Originally posted by JakePeavy44
I mean after this year 2008 if we wins the Cy this year in my opinion he is the best.
O.K. now you're just being creepy and weird.
dirtdevil
they are a little far apart on the keyboard for it to be a typo, aren't they?
April 16, 2008 at 01:49AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
Originally posted by JakePeavy44
I mean after this year 2008 if we wins the Cy this year in my opinion he is the best.
O.K. now you're just being creepy and weird.
they are a little far apart on the keyboard for it to be a typo, aren't they?