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whiskybear
Chad Pennington: [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm]Greatest QB ever[/url].
April 24, 2009 at 10:46PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
Completion % is all that matters.
Chad Pennington: [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm]Greatest QB ever[/url].
happy
[Edited on 4-24-2009 by happy]
April 24, 2009 at 10:51PM View BBCode
(this is the draft thread.... I meant when judging QB talent based off their college stats.)[Edited on 4-24-2009 by happy]
barterer2002
Ignoring the completion percentage thing which was just stupid, there is some truth to part one here and its more to build the point that the team should be build and then the QB plugged in rather than the other way around.
April 24, 2009 at 11:59PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
the thing people forget is that the reason why plenty of top pick QBs turn to crap is twofold.
1) they are on crap teams, they get hammered in the pocket, and they get their eggs scrambled.
2) dumb teams get top pick and make dumb choices.
Ignoring the completion percentage thing which was just stupid, there is some truth to part one here and its more to build the point that the team should be build and then the QB plugged in rather than the other way around.
Jughead
April 25, 2009 at 01:02AM View BBCode
Do you put the nuts on a sundae first or last? Do it first, and you must be nuts to want to be a quarterback on Sunday.
Cubsfan13
(Nuts have no place on my sundae. And there's my contribution to this thread.)
April 25, 2009 at 01:26AM View BBCode
Ew.(Nuts have no place on my sundae. And there's my contribution to this thread.)
dirtdevil
what about option three, where players projected by pretty much everybody to be stars don't pan out. when manning/leaf and bledsoe/mirer were in the conversation as which qb to pick #1 in their respective draft years there were plenty of people making solid cases for leaf and mirer being better future pros. they weren't, but that doesn't make the chargers idiots for taking leaf when the colts grabbed manning.
April 25, 2009 at 03:46PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
Completion % is all that matters.
the thing people forget is that the reason why plenty of top pick QBs turn to crap is twofold.
1) they are on crap teams, they get hammered in the pocket, and they get their eggs scrambled.
2) dumb teams get top pick and make dumb choices.
what about option three, where players projected by pretty much everybody to be stars don't pan out. when manning/leaf and bledsoe/mirer were in the conversation as which qb to pick #1 in their respective draft years there were plenty of people making solid cases for leaf and mirer being better future pros. they weren't, but that doesn't make the chargers idiots for taking leaf when the colts grabbed manning.
FuriousGiorge
I still think this is short-sighted. Yes, you get some back picks, but you also miss out on Payton, you miss out on McNabb, you miss out on Carson Palmer and Steve McNair. To me, it's a pretty simple equation - if you project the best available player to be a QB, you take him. I don't subscribe to the theory that there's a position that you simply shouldn't take in the 1st round.
April 25, 2009 at 04:46PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Originally posted by happy
the thing people forget is that the reason why plenty of top pick QBs turn to crap is twofold.
1) they are on crap teams, they get hammered in the pocket, and they get their eggs scrambled.
2) dumb teams get top pick and make dumb choices.
Ignoring the completion percentage thing which was just stupid, there is some truth to part one here and its more to build the point that the team should be build and then the QB plugged in rather than the other way around.
I still think this is short-sighted. Yes, you get some back picks, but you also miss out on Payton, you miss out on McNabb, you miss out on Carson Palmer and Steve McNair. To me, it's a pretty simple equation - if you project the best available player to be a QB, you take him. I don't subscribe to the theory that there's a position that you simply shouldn't take in the 1st round.
barterer2002
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
April 25, 2009 at 06:42PM View BBCode
But Craig, that isn't what happens. Look at Sanchez for example. Nobody thinks he's one of the top ten players in the draft yet he'll be drafted in the top ten because of his position. The issue with QBs is that they are bumped up on almost everyone's draft board because of the position they play when the truth is that successful teams can certainly find QBs later in the draft, and I'm not just talking about Montana, Farve or Brady type success but Boomer Essiasian, Mark Brunell, Randall Cunningham, Rich Gannon, Jake Plummer, Matt Hasselback, Trent Green, Marc Bulger, Brad Johnson type success with a strong team around them[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
FuriousGiorge
If you don't use a high pick on a QB, and you're lucky enough to land a Hasselbeck or an Oakland-era Rich Gannon, then great. But for every one of those guys there are 3 Rob Johnsons or Gus Frerottes, average QB's who cause their teams to futilely spin their wheels for a few seasons and then end up right back where they started. There just isn't a magic formula here - you can use a draft pick, you can go free agency, you can make a trade, but it just seems kind of stupid to suggest that one method is inherently better than the other. It all depends on circumstances. If you think Sanchez is a franchise QB, and you're right, you'll never, ever regret taking him.
April 25, 2009 at 07:06PM View BBCode
Yes, it's a risk, but the potential reward is enormous. Nothing turns a team around faster than a franchise quarterback, which is why teams keep using these high picks on them year after year.If you don't use a high pick on a QB, and you're lucky enough to land a Hasselbeck or an Oakland-era Rich Gannon, then great. But for every one of those guys there are 3 Rob Johnsons or Gus Frerottes, average QB's who cause their teams to futilely spin their wheels for a few seasons and then end up right back where they started. There just isn't a magic formula here - you can use a draft pick, you can go free agency, you can make a trade, but it just seems kind of stupid to suggest that one method is inherently better than the other. It all depends on circumstances. If you think Sanchez is a franchise QB, and you're right, you'll never, ever regret taking him.
barterer2002
Bold is player is picked right where I predicted
[color=blue]Blue is Player is picked within 2 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=green]Green is player is picked within 5 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=orange] Orange player is picked within 10 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=red]Red is a player who is 11 or more slots from where I predicted[/color]
1. DET. Matthew Stafford
2. STL Jason Smith
[color=blue]3. KC. Aaron Curry. [/color] (went 4)
[color=green]4. SEA. Eugene Monroe. [/color] (went 8)
[color=orange]5. CLE. Brian Orakpo. [/color] (went 13)
[color=green]6. CIN. Michael Crabtree. [/color] (went 10)
7. OAK. Darrius Heyward-Bey.
8. [color=green]JAX. Will trade to NYJ. Mark Sanchez. [/color] (went 5)
[color=orange]9. GB. Tyson Jackson. [/color] Went 3
[color=green]10. SF. Andre Smith. [/color] went 6
11. BUF. Aaron Maybin.
[color=green]12. DEN. B.J. Raji. [/color] went 9
[color=green]13. WAS Robert Ayers. [/color] (went 18)
14. NO. Malcolm Jenkins
[color=red]15. HOU. Chris Wells.[/color] (went 31)
[color=red]16. SD. Everette Brown.[/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]17. NYJ- will be traded to JAX. Brandon Pettigrew.[/color] (went 20)
[color=red]18. DEN- Rey Maualuga [/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]19. TB-Peria Jerry [/color] (went 24)
[color=orange]20. DET- Knowshon Moreno [/color] (went 12)
[color=orange]21. PHL-Donald Brown[/color] (went 27)
[color=red]22. MIN-Eben Britton [/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]23. NE-Clay Matthews [/color] (went 26)
[color=orange]24. ATL-Evander Hood [/color] (went 32)
25. MIA-Vontae Davis
[color=orange]26. BAL-Jeremy Maclin [/color] (went 19)
[color=green]27. IND Kenny Britt [/color] (went 30)
[color=green]28. BUF Michael Ohler [/color] (went 23)
[color=orange]29. NYG. Brian Robiskie [/color] (went 36 (round 2))
[color=red]30. TEN. Darius Butler [/color] (went round 2)
[color=red]31. ARI. Brian Cushings[/color] (went 15)
[color=green]32. PIT Eric Wood[/color] (went 28)
Total misses
[color=red]SD Larry English (went 16)[/color]
[color=red]TB Josh Freeman (went 17[/color]
[color=red] CLE Alex Mack (went 21) [/color]
[color=red] MIN Percy Harvin (went 22) [/color]
[color=red]Hakim Nicks (went 29) [/color]
I'll update as i can
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-26-2009 by barterer2002]
April 25, 2009 at 08:00PM View BBCode
OK here we goBold is player is picked right where I predicted
[color=blue]Blue is Player is picked within 2 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=green]Green is player is picked within 5 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=orange] Orange player is picked within 10 slots of where I predicted[/color]
[color=red]Red is a player who is 11 or more slots from where I predicted[/color]
1. DET. Matthew Stafford
2. STL Jason Smith
[color=blue]3. KC. Aaron Curry. [/color] (went 4)
[color=green]4. SEA. Eugene Monroe. [/color] (went 8)
[color=orange]5. CLE. Brian Orakpo. [/color] (went 13)
[color=green]6. CIN. Michael Crabtree. [/color] (went 10)
7. OAK. Darrius Heyward-Bey.
8. [color=green]JAX. Will trade to NYJ. Mark Sanchez. [/color] (went 5)
[color=orange]9. GB. Tyson Jackson. [/color] Went 3
[color=green]10. SF. Andre Smith. [/color] went 6
11. BUF. Aaron Maybin.
[color=green]12. DEN. B.J. Raji. [/color] went 9
[color=green]13. WAS Robert Ayers. [/color] (went 18)
14. NO. Malcolm Jenkins
[color=red]15. HOU. Chris Wells.[/color] (went 31)
[color=red]16. SD. Everette Brown.[/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]17. NYJ- will be traded to JAX. Brandon Pettigrew.[/color] (went 20)
[color=red]18. DEN- Rey Maualuga [/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]19. TB-Peria Jerry [/color] (went 24)
[color=orange]20. DET- Knowshon Moreno [/color] (went 12)
[color=orange]21. PHL-Donald Brown[/color] (went 27)
[color=red]22. MIN-Eben Britton [/color] (went Round 2)
[color=green]23. NE-Clay Matthews [/color] (went 26)
[color=orange]24. ATL-Evander Hood [/color] (went 32)
25. MIA-Vontae Davis
[color=orange]26. BAL-Jeremy Maclin [/color] (went 19)
[color=green]27. IND Kenny Britt [/color] (went 30)
[color=green]28. BUF Michael Ohler [/color] (went 23)
[color=orange]29. NYG. Brian Robiskie [/color] (went 36 (round 2))
[color=red]30. TEN. Darius Butler [/color] (went round 2)
[color=red]31. ARI. Brian Cushings[/color] (went 15)
[color=green]32. PIT Eric Wood[/color] (went 28)
Total misses
[color=red]SD Larry English (went 16)[/color]
[color=red]TB Josh Freeman (went 17[/color]
[color=red] CLE Alex Mack (went 21) [/color]
[color=red] MIN Percy Harvin (went 22) [/color]
[color=red]Hakim Nicks (went 29) [/color]
I'll update as i can
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
[Edited on 4-26-2009 by barterer2002]
whiskybear
April 25, 2009 at 08:25PM View BBCode
OK, I'd settle for Aaron Curry. I'm surprised he's still available.
barterer2002
April 25, 2009 at 08:30PM View BBCode
You get either Curry or Monroe, win for Seattle in either case
barterer2002
April 25, 2009 at 08:43PM View BBCode
You can't tell what position Steve Young played can you. How long before he starts gushing over how great a pick Freeman will be and campaigning for him to be picked.
barterer2002
[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
April 25, 2009 at 08:45PM View BBCode
Didn't give up much to move up 12 slots there[Edited on 4-25-2009 by barterer2002]
whiskybear
April 25, 2009 at 08:46PM View BBCode
A 1 and a 2 simply to move up 12 spots is a ransom. That's an awesome deal for Cleveland.
barterer2002
April 25, 2009 at 08:47PM View BBCode
Its not bad for Cleveland but I expected they'd have to include next year's first to do it