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Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Calm before the Storm- the 2012 MLB HOF ballot
barterer2002
December 16, 2011 at 07:19PM View BBCode
Here's my feeling on the issue. Take any given year in baseball history. There are generally going to be 40-50 future hall of fame player who played in that season. Some will be rookies or September call ups, some packing it in at the end and some in their primes. I generally figure players who are in the top 20 players in baseball (arguably of course) for a 5-10 year stretch tend to be hall of fame players. By that argument I'd include Bagwell. (and McGwire, Bonds, Palmeiro and Raines)
dirtdevil
bonds is pretty well-documented as when and why he started. it's not a pass, really. i just think he was a hall of famer before he was using. the other guys i feel are in consideration for the hall because they were using. it's probably a minor difference to some, but it's reasonable to me.
December 16, 2011 at 07:26PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
if bagell was using, he must have been using right from jumpstreet. it seems bonds gets a pass from you, because, you are sure he wasn't using from the beginning.
(when was it you think bonds did start using?)
bonds is pretty well-documented as when and why he started. it's not a pass, really. i just think he was a hall of famer before he was using. the other guys i feel are in consideration for the hall because they were using. it's probably a minor difference to some, but it's reasonable to me.
tm4559
i am confused. is this the bonds that refuses to testify or talk about it in general, or some other bonds who has come out publicly and said, yes, i used this or that and the other thing?
December 16, 2011 at 07:35PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
bonds is pretty well-documented as when and why he started.
i am confused. is this the bonds that refuses to testify or talk about it in general, or some other bonds who has come out publicly and said, yes, i used this or that and the other thing?
tm4559
December 16, 2011 at 07:37PM View BBCode
(i also would like to mention in passing, that all the folks that think this is a thing that was just helpful to hitters and all their pitching gods they think are so awesome were squeaky clean are just the plain dumb. those things probably helped pitchers more than they did hitters.)
tfarr_24
This is about the time that Canseco suspected Bonds of starting as well, according to his book. After some homerun derby or something for charity where Canseco was just mashing 500 ft homeruns. Bonds was entralled by it all, lol.
December 16, 2011 at 07:41PM View BBCode
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/bonds-business-manager-says-giants-star-admitted-using-steroids-9400This is about the time that Canseco suspected Bonds of starting as well, according to his book. After some homerun derby or something for charity where Canseco was just mashing 500 ft homeruns. Bonds was entralled by it all, lol.
tfarr_24
If Greg Maddux took steroids, then he must have never lifted a weight. He probably used that testosterone for pilates or something.
December 16, 2011 at 07:42PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tm4559
(i also would like to mention in passing, that all the folks that think this is a thing that was just helpful to hitters and all their pitching gods they think are so awesome were squeaky clean are just the plain dumb. those things probably helped pitchers more than they did hitters.)
If Greg Maddux took steroids, then he must have never lifted a weight. He probably used that testosterone for pilates or something.
tm4559
December 16, 2011 at 07:43PM View BBCode
the story i kind of heard was bonds said he (bonds)started using because white boy mcgwire was getting all this ink for hitting all them home runs.
tm4559
LOL. i didn't mean every pitcher. of course. nobody thinks every hitter used. i don't think every pitcher used. i just don't know which ones did. well, we know mr. bigshot roid rage bat splinter did. but we all want to kind of fellate him anyway, right?
December 16, 2011 at 07:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tfarr_24
Originally posted by tm4559
(i also would like to mention in passing, that all the folks that think this is a thing that was just helpful to hitters and all their pitching gods they think are so awesome were squeaky clean are just the plain dumb. those things probably helped pitchers more than they did hitters.)
If Greg Maddux took steroids, then he must have never lifted a weight. He probably used that testosterone for pilates or something.
LOL. i didn't mean every pitcher. of course. nobody thinks every hitter used. i don't think every pitcher used. i just don't know which ones did. well, we know mr. bigshot roid rage bat splinter did. but we all want to kind of fellate him anyway, right?
tfarr_24
December 16, 2011 at 07:57PM View BBCode
I still wish Piazza would've charged that night. As a kid, I always thought he looked pretty tough. Roger probably would've whooped his ass though. Then I would've lost respect for him. Maybe it's better he didn't.
tm4559
i would vote for guys like bonds, clemens, mcgwire, palmeiro, ARod when it retires (i am going through confirmed users now, ok? we know these used, there is no doubt). i would vote for them because they were the awesome.
if i had a vote i would vote for folks (if they are eligible now and when they become eligible) like raines, bagwell, frank thomas, junior griffey and greg maddux and other folks that i and NOBODY ELSE can say with any certaintly that they used. yes, i would vote for them, because they were awesome.
would i vote for confirmed things that were awesome because of some notion i had about what something was before it started using, and make some kind of distinction and not vote for things like Bagwell, that it must have been a user but was not as good as bonds was before he was a user kind of sand castles in the air type of thing? no. but, i can't fault anyone for how they want to think about it. its a free country.
December 16, 2011 at 07:57PM View BBCode
i am actually kind of in there with bryan, in general though.i would vote for guys like bonds, clemens, mcgwire, palmeiro, ARod when it retires (i am going through confirmed users now, ok? we know these used, there is no doubt). i would vote for them because they were the awesome.
if i had a vote i would vote for folks (if they are eligible now and when they become eligible) like raines, bagwell, frank thomas, junior griffey and greg maddux and other folks that i and NOBODY ELSE can say with any certaintly that they used. yes, i would vote for them, because they were awesome.
would i vote for confirmed things that were awesome because of some notion i had about what something was before it started using, and make some kind of distinction and not vote for things like Bagwell, that it must have been a user but was not as good as bonds was before he was a user kind of sand castles in the air type of thing? no. but, i can't fault anyone for how they want to think about it. its a free country.
tm4559
yeah, the Rocket would've sported that.
December 16, 2011 at 07:58PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tfarr_24
I still wish Piazza would've charged that night. As a kid, I always thought he looked pretty tough. Roger probably would've whooped his ass though. Then I would've lost respect for him. Maybe it's better he didn't.
yeah, the Rocket would've sported that.
tfarr_24
December 16, 2011 at 08:01PM View BBCode
Brady Anderson. That's all I've got. That's the joke. Get it?
tfarr_24
I don't guess it's any different than Jose Bautista. Goodness, that guy has got to be juiced. It will come out. He's on the super juice that no one has caught onto yet.
December 16, 2011 at 08:09PM View BBCode
My goodness, everyone was so dumb or just naive. Just look at Brady's '96 season and how we were all not like, "Okay, how?"I don't guess it's any different than Jose Bautista. Goodness, that guy has got to be juiced. It will come out. He's on the super juice that no one has caught onto yet.
tm4559
(I MEAN IT IS SO AWESOME TO DRAW A WALK AND ALL AND LET AROD TAKE THE BOOS WHEN HE GETS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY NOT?????????????)
December 16, 2011 at 08:17PM View BBCode
no, he just freaking isn't afraid to swing the bat and go for the fence. if mr. big shot obp there with the yankees would do that, they would be better off.(I MEAN IT IS SO AWESOME TO DRAW A WALK AND ALL AND LET AROD TAKE THE BOOS WHEN HE GETS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY NOT?????????????)
bobcat73
His short career has a lot to do with the fact that it was not a long career and shortly after he left guys started getting better at 32.
Donnie baseball is the only "on the cusp" guy for me. A great season some very good seasons and health issues. Sadly another player who fizzled out right before the foutain of youth (roids) really seems to have become common.... and is hurt by players coming up behind him and slaughtering records
You could almost include Fred with the above guys...
Raines belongs in my mind. Trammel belongs too.
Morris get in because in the 80's top to bottom he was the decades winningest pitcher.
Palmero gets no votes at all. Guys like him ruined it for guys like Murphey and Donnie baseball not to mention Clark, Greenwell and a host of others. censored that guy.
December 27, 2011 at 11:07PM View BBCode
Murphey is getting screwed because all those damn users came right after him. He was a beast and 2 time MVP. He should be in.His short career has a lot to do with the fact that it was not a long career and shortly after he left guys started getting better at 32.
Donnie baseball is the only "on the cusp" guy for me. A great season some very good seasons and health issues. Sadly another player who fizzled out right before the foutain of youth (roids) really seems to have become common.... and is hurt by players coming up behind him and slaughtering records
You could almost include Fred with the above guys...
Raines belongs in my mind. Trammel belongs too.
Morris get in because in the 80's top to bottom he was the decades winningest pitcher.
Palmero gets no votes at all. Guys like him ruined it for guys like Murphey and Donnie baseball not to mention Clark, Greenwell and a host of others. censored that guy.
tm4559
December 29, 2011 at 01:15AM View BBCode
(if someone had hit as many home runs, during the so called steroid era, as hank aaron hit after the turned 35, folks would swear it was a juicer. being good when you're old does not a juicer make you.)Pages: 1 2