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Old Forum Index » Sim Forums » Check This Out! » Sim Dynasty Mythbusters Part 2: Dynasty leagues are child's play
Yanksrock22
Yeah, I made the jump right from trial leagues to a speed league.
I've only been in one league other than trial leagues, and that is the PWL. It is highly competitive and just a fun league to be in. That's all I really have to contribute to this discussion.
January 01, 2014 at 07:13PM View BBCode
Originally posted by cdunn3
I am not so sure about trial league owners starting
with dynasty leagues.
There are numerous speed leagues for $12-14 for
3 months available immediately. This contrasts
with (currently) $17 for 2 seasons for dynasty leagues.
There are probably as many owners coming from trial
leagues that go to subscription speed leagues as to
dynasty leagues.
Also, bear in mind that many dynasty league openings
are taken by experienced owners - those seeking a
new or additional team.
Yeah, I made the jump right from trial leagues to a speed league.
I've only been in one league other than trial leagues, and that is the PWL. It is highly competitive and just a fun league to be in. That's all I really have to contribute to this discussion.
ballmark
The point being made, I think, is that new owners don't have the game knowledge to know when they're being low-balled. I blame the grading system. All our lives we're led to believe that a "C" is average, a "C+" is slightly above average and a "B-" is downright something to feel pretty good about, whereas in SimD all those grades mean a player is pretty much useless. (And I pause here to note that several of you will point out exceptions to this statement, but I stand by it in general.)
While Speed leagues are more readily available and often cheaper, I still think Dynasty Leagues are the natural progression from Trial Leagues simply because they use the same rule set and would "feel" the most natural for someone wanting to get more deeply involved with SimD. At least that's how it worked for me. It was only after I grew weary of the 3 GPD pace that I branched out into Speed Leagues.
So I have no hard facts - Admin probably would - but I'd like to see the number of owners who went from Trial to Dynasty vs. the number who went from Trial to Speed and *then* I think we'd have some firm evidence as to the new owner/experienced owner debate in the Dynasty vs. Speed League argument.
January 01, 2014 at 08:19PM View BBCode
Anytime a new inexperienced owner joins the league, this is a likely outcome. Many of the deals are not in the best interests of the new owner, but they're usually hard to overturn. Most owners are not going to protest a trade, or vote to overturn a trade, when they probably made an offer themselves that favored their franchise.I would think that most every owner in *every* league makes a first offer that favors their franchise over the other. You hardly ever start out a trade negotiation with your best offer, though I know there are some who do, at least on occasion (myself included).
The point being made, I think, is that new owners don't have the game knowledge to know when they're being low-balled. I blame the grading system. All our lives we're led to believe that a "C" is average, a "C+" is slightly above average and a "B-" is downright something to feel pretty good about, whereas in SimD all those grades mean a player is pretty much useless. (And I pause here to note that several of you will point out exceptions to this statement, but I stand by it in general.)
While Speed leagues are more readily available and often cheaper, I still think Dynasty Leagues are the natural progression from Trial Leagues simply because they use the same rule set and would "feel" the most natural for someone wanting to get more deeply involved with SimD. At least that's how it worked for me. It was only after I grew weary of the 3 GPD pace that I branched out into Speed Leagues.
So I have no hard facts - Admin probably would - but I'd like to see the number of owners who went from Trial to Dynasty vs. the number who went from Trial to Speed and *then* I think we'd have some firm evidence as to the new owner/experienced owner debate in the Dynasty vs. Speed League argument.
Jughead
While Speed leagues are more readily available and often cheaper, I still think Dynasty Leagues are the natural progression from Trial Leagues simply because they use the same rule set and would "feel" the most natural for someone wanting to get more deeply involved with SimD. [/quote]
Of course they are. But people don't know what they don't know. The point made about dynasty leagues being on a schedule, while most speed leagues have gone to a subscription model, has essentially forced speed leagues onto trial users because they provide the instant gratification expected from graduated trial users.
Shifting most speed leagues to subscription has created this unintended consequence.
January 01, 2014 at 10:57PM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by ballmark[/i]
While Speed leagues are more readily available and often cheaper, I still think Dynasty Leagues are the natural progression from Trial Leagues simply because they use the same rule set and would "feel" the most natural for someone wanting to get more deeply involved with SimD. [/quote]
Of course they are. But people don't know what they don't know. The point made about dynasty leagues being on a schedule, while most speed leagues have gone to a subscription model, has essentially forced speed leagues onto trial users because they provide the instant gratification expected from graduated trial users.
Shifting most speed leagues to subscription has created this unintended consequence.
yankees888
I'm not going to get involved past this because I truly know very little about speed leagues, but I've been in about 7 or 8 dynasty leagues (only one on this account if you check the owner card, but I had another account that I lost the password for). In every one of those leagues, it was very uncommon if there was a day when fewer than 13 owners checked, and of the 2 or 3 who didn't check that day, they had usually checked within the past 2 days.
So the point that people don't check dynasty teams is definitely false.
EDIT: Just checked my league, everyone has checked either today or yesterday.
[Edited on 1-6-2014 by yankees888]
January 06, 2014 at 12:35PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by paulcaraccio
--Dynasty leagues only have about 9 active owners. (probably thinking of trial leagues)
nope, sorry. dynasty.
I'm not going to get involved past this because I truly know very little about speed leagues, but I've been in about 7 or 8 dynasty leagues (only one on this account if you check the owner card, but I had another account that I lost the password for). In every one of those leagues, it was very uncommon if there was a day when fewer than 13 owners checked, and of the 2 or 3 who didn't check that day, they had usually checked within the past 2 days.
So the point that people don't check dynasty teams is definitely false.
EDIT: Just checked my league, everyone has checked either today or yesterday.
[Edited on 1-6-2014 by yankees888]
tworoosters
Just wondering.
February 07, 2014 at 09:52PM View BBCode
So if an owner had a 7.7% playoff appearance rate in Speed/Private leagues and a 60.6% rate in Dynasty leagues would that prove anything ?Just wondering.
paulcaraccio
February 07, 2014 at 10:42PM View BBCode
nah it wouldnt...if you add up everyones owner cards, the numbers for dynasty and speed would be the same, so all those numbers would prove is that somewhere else that disparity is made up.
tworoosters
Seems to me a disparity like that, particularly with a top owner would seem to indicate something .
February 07, 2014 at 11:14PM View BBCode
But I thought that all that mattered was playoff appearances and championships and such.Seems to me a disparity like that, particularly with a top owner would seem to indicate something .
paulcaraccio
February 07, 2014 at 11:28PM View BBCode
it matters for individuals, but I don't think it says anything about league types. It's likely that the competition in the leagues this owner was more successful in was weaker during the period he was in those leagues than it was/is in the leagues he's been less successful in, but that doesn't say anything about the cumulative state of dynasty/speed. All the owner cards in the world would add up to roughly 1/16 championships and 1/4 playoff trips, for both dynasty and speed, so the owner's record you're referencing just tell us that there must also be people with better records in speed than dynasty.
dirtdevil
February 08, 2014 at 12:27AM View BBCode
so if i'm following things correctly, your position now essentially is that only evidence supporting dynasty equivalency will be accepted? :lol::P:lol:
paulcaraccio
February 08, 2014 at 12:40AM View BBCode
nah i think you got it twisted...im saying that I don't think owner cards are acceptable evidence strictly because they can only support equivalency.
tworoosters
February 08, 2014 at 12:48AM View BBCode
And yet you continue to reference owner's cards in other threads, again I'm a little confused .
paulcaraccio
Simply saying a guy's record is good in dynasty and bad in speed doesn't mean that dynasty leagues are weak and speed leagues are strong; it just means the particular leagues he's been in have played out that way for him, and it's been the inverse for his leaguemates. In your example, the guy's only made the playoffs 7.7% of the time in speed leagues, substantially lower than the average of 25%. This means that there is a team or teams there that are reaching the playoffs at a substantially higher than average rate. If we're using owner cards to say speed leagues are hard for this person, that has to mean that speed leagues are easier for the owners who are beating him.
February 08, 2014 at 03:00AM View BBCode
well, I referenced the cards of some owners from the Conigliaro League because it has the most extreme variables, I thought we might be able to get something out of that. I think you certainly can glean information about any individual league by looking at owner cards - that's what Tyson's spreadsheet did.Simply saying a guy's record is good in dynasty and bad in speed doesn't mean that dynasty leagues are weak and speed leagues are strong; it just means the particular leagues he's been in have played out that way for him, and it's been the inverse for his leaguemates. In your example, the guy's only made the playoffs 7.7% of the time in speed leagues, substantially lower than the average of 25%. This means that there is a team or teams there that are reaching the playoffs at a substantially higher than average rate. If we're using owner cards to say speed leagues are hard for this person, that has to mean that speed leagues are easier for the owners who are beating him.
dirtdevil
:lol::lol:
February 08, 2014 at 03:23AM View BBCode
Ahem.Originally posted by dirtdevil
so if i'm following things correctly, your position now essentially is that only evidence supporting dynasty equivalency will be accepted? :lol::P:lol:
:lol::lol:
ofan1987
Two different flavors. I like them both
February 08, 2014 at 08:53AM View BBCode
I think both can be beat equally once you get used to the game.... it took me a while to really nail down my strategy and find my niche, but I'm using it effectively in both my dynasty and speed league. Dynasty is a little easier because I have more time to perfect my strategies, whereas 15 gpd league has me on the ropes in the early season.Two different flavors. I like them both
ofan1987
Two different flavors. I like them both
February 08, 2014 at 08:53AM View BBCode
I think both can be beat equally once you get used to the game.... it took me a while to really nail down my strategy and find my niche, but I'm using it effectively in both my dynasty and speed league. Dynasty is a little easier because I have more time to perfect my strategies, whereas 15 gpd league has me on the ropes in the early season.Two different flavors. I like them both
Cheezweezel
February 08, 2014 at 11:19PM View BBCode
It seems like a simple case of micro vs. macro management to me. Micromanagers will prefer the time afforded by slower paced (Dynasty) leagues, while macromanagers prefer the volume afforded by speed leagues.