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khazim
My personal opinions of Elway aside (He's an utter ass. Jerk tried ordering me off a sidewalk in Greeley when I first moved to CO) he did take Denver from a one-time also-ran to a perennial contender.
January 06, 2009 at 08:16PM View BBCode
Originally posted by sycophantman
Elway was a clown, he isn't fit to reproduce with those horse teeth of his.
My personal opinions of Elway aside (He's an utter ass. Jerk tried ordering me off a sidewalk in Greeley when I first moved to CO) he did take Denver from a one-time also-ran to a perennial contender.
sycophantman
January 06, 2009 at 08:19PM View BBCode
What... were you doing on that sidewalk? Elway can't be the wrong party here, not in this tale.
dirtdevil
nope. gary kubiak.
January 06, 2009 at 08:24PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
My personal opinions of Elway aside.....he did take Denver from a one-time also-ran to a perennial contender.
nope. gary kubiak.
khazim
you know, looking back, that probably wasn't a great conversation-starter...
January 06, 2009 at 08:25PM View BBCode
I know. I was, get this, walking on the sidewalk. He was... riding a bicycle... on the sidewalk. I was obviously in error. I did make sure it was THE John Elway by asking if he was the John Elway who balked at being drafted by the Baltimore Colts and threatened to play Baseball instead.you know, looking back, that probably wasn't a great conversation-starter...
dirtdevil
January 06, 2009 at 08:27PM View BBCode
garu kubiak also single-handedly won two stanley cups for the avalanche and dragged the rockies into the postseason by the power of his footwork coaching alone.
khazim
Denver is, at it's core, a football town. Now it seems you've figured out our secret.
Colorado Crush winning the Arena bowl? Kubiak.
Record snowfall in Colorado resorts? Kubiak.
Columbia disaster? Kubiak blinked.
This could easily turn into a Chuck Norris thread if you're not careful.
January 06, 2009 at 08:30PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
garu kubiak also single-handedly won two stanley cups for the avalanche and dragged the rockies into the postseason by the power of his footwork coaching alone.
Denver is, at it's core, a football town. Now it seems you've figured out our secret.
Colorado Crush winning the Arena bowl? Kubiak.
Record snowfall in Colorado resorts? Kubiak.
Columbia disaster? Kubiak blinked.
This could easily turn into a Chuck Norris thread if you're not careful.
dirtdevil
January 06, 2009 at 08:55PM View BBCode
yes, giving gary kubial sole credit for all those achievments does seem silly, doesn't it?
khazim
For milking every ounce of talent out of a QB who was generally regarded as mediocre and getting him to All-Pro status and an AFC Championship game? I can absolutely credit Gary Kubiak for that.
[Edited on 1-6-2009 by khazim]
January 06, 2009 at 09:12PM View BBCode
For those achievements? Yup. For Making John Elway win those two superbowls? Yup, silly There was an a$$load of offensive talent on those two teams. That sort of undermines the Pro-Shanahan argument, as well.For milking every ounce of talent out of a QB who was generally regarded as mediocre and getting him to All-Pro status and an AFC Championship game? I can absolutely credit Gary Kubiak for that.
[Edited on 1-6-2009 by khazim]
dirtdevil
your opinion is like that held by the commander of the prince of wales in ww2. you know you're right, despite all evidence and opinion to the contrary and will continue to hold that opinion until the dive bombers hit.
January 06, 2009 at 09:24PM View BBCode
yes shanahan was clearly a bum who rode the coattails of lesser men to back to back titles because denver was clearly the only talented team in the league those two years. nothing to do with the coaching at all. except for the most recent championship game appearance that has everything to do with coaching and still nothing to do with shanahan.your opinion is like that held by the commander of the prince of wales in ww2. you know you're right, despite all evidence and opinion to the contrary and will continue to hold that opinion until the dive bombers hit.
FuriousGiorge
The nice thing is, the guys who play for the Regina Broncos will be able to go ice fishing on Lake Athabasca after the season is over.
January 06, 2009 at 09:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
For those achievements? Yup. For Making John Elway win those two superbowls? Yup, silly There was an a$$load of offensive talent on those two teams. That sort of undermines the Pro-Shanahan argument, as well.
For milking every ounce of talent out of a QB who was generally regarded as mediocre and getting him to All-Pro status and an AFC Championship game? I can absolutely credit Gary Kubiak for that.
[Edited on 1-6-2009 by khazim]
The nice thing is, the guys who play for the Regina Broncos will be able to go ice fishing on Lake Athabasca after the season is over.
dirtdevil
actually, swift current would be a better destination. the junior hockey team there is already called the broncos, so they could save on uniforms.
January 06, 2009 at 09:49PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
The nice thing is, the guys who play for the Regina Broncos will be able to go ice fishing on Lake Athabasca after the season is over.
actually, swift current would be a better destination. the junior hockey team there is already called the broncos, so they could save on uniforms.
dirtdevil
(about as much as anyone, really. i mean you got lake athabasca, regina and i think even saskatoon once. there isn't really much more to saskatchewan except a whole lot of flat land.)
January 06, 2009 at 09:52PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
(The censored do I know about Saskatchewan?)
(about as much as anyone, really. i mean you got lake athabasca, regina and i think even saskatoon once. there isn't really much more to saskatchewan except a whole lot of flat land.)
FuriousGiorge
Edit: Looks like Medicine Hat is in Alberta. Still a funny name though. Medicine Hat Broncos, that'd be acceptable.
[Edited on 1-6-2009 by FuriousGiorge]
January 06, 2009 at 09:54PM View BBCode
I could also have named Medicine Hat and Moose Jaw. Haha, Canada. America's hat.Edit: Looks like Medicine Hat is in Alberta. Still a funny name though. Medicine Hat Broncos, that'd be acceptable.
[Edited on 1-6-2009 by FuriousGiorge]
dirtdevil
my usual beer. it never seems to taste the same in the states though. my brother's brother-in-law (i know him better than that sounds) is a director for labatt's and he swears up and down it's the same beer, but it still tastes different when i'm in the states. it's also the beer that they sell in the hsbc arena in buffalo, which i always get a chuckle out of.
January 06, 2009 at 09:59PM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
I drank a Labatt's Blue yesterday.
my usual beer. it never seems to taste the same in the states though. my brother's brother-in-law (i know him better than that sounds) is a director for labatt's and he swears up and down it's the same beer, but it still tastes different when i'm in the states. it's also the beer that they sell in the hsbc arena in buffalo, which i always get a chuckle out of.
FuriousGiorge
January 06, 2009 at 10:05PM View BBCode
Buffalo's an American city? Well I'll be damned, so it is.
khazim
Screw that, Moose Jaw is a great locale.
January 06, 2009 at 10:21PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
The nice thing is, the guys who play for the Regina Broncos will be able to go ice fishing on Lake Athabasca after the season is over.
actually, swift current would be a better destination. the junior hockey team there is already called the broncos, so they could save on uniforms.
Screw that, Moose Jaw is a great locale.
dirtdevil
January 07, 2009 at 04:39AM View BBCode
moose jaw isn't as symmetrical a fit though, as their junior team is called the warriors. because, well, you had to be one heck of a warrior to come away with the jaw of a moose and keep your own body parts in the proper places.
Benne
[quote][i]Originally posted by whiskybear[/i]
I drank a Labatt's Blue yesterday. [/quote]
my usual beer. it never seems to taste the same in the states though. my brother's brother-in-law (i know him better than that sounds) is a director for labatt's and he swears up and down it's the same beer, but it still tastes different when i'm in the states. it's also the beer that they sell in the hsbc arena in buffalo, which i always get a chuckle out of. [/quote]
Huh, I was under the assumption that Canucks had the same type of ambivalence towards Labatt that Aussies do towards Foster's.
January 07, 2009 at 07:51AM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by dirtdevil[/i]
[quote][i]Originally posted by whiskybear[/i]
I drank a Labatt's Blue yesterday. [/quote]
my usual beer. it never seems to taste the same in the states though. my brother's brother-in-law (i know him better than that sounds) is a director for labatt's and he swears up and down it's the same beer, but it still tastes different when i'm in the states. it's also the beer that they sell in the hsbc arena in buffalo, which i always get a chuckle out of. [/quote]
Huh, I was under the assumption that Canucks had the same type of ambivalence towards Labatt that Aussies do towards Foster's.
happy
January 07, 2009 at 07:54AM View BBCode
did you know that fosters is not actually the australian word for beer?
thatrogue
Wasn't Shanahan Elway's QB coach and eventually Broncos' OC (after returning from the Raiders) before getting the boot from Reeves (because he and Elway were so chummy that Reeves thought Shannahan was undermining his authority with the QB)?
Wasn't Shannahan the OC of the powerful 49'ers offense back in the early 90's, and didn't they win a SuperBowl with him as said OC?
I'll say it again, Kubiak is good because he learned under Shanahan, as opposed to your assertion that Kubiak made Shanahan look better.
Bottom line: Shannahan is an exceptional coaching talent (he's just not an effective GM), and your attempts to lessen his achievements is really sad. I've been a Broncos fan since the mid-seventies, and I would have been happy to see Shanahan remain coach for another ten post-Elway seasons...as I think he'd have eventually gotten things back on track.
January 07, 2009 at 01:07PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazimI liked Plummer well enough, but Shanahan's schemes once had Bubby Brister executing the naked bootleg like a pro-bowler.
...
frankly, the way Plummer was run out of town by the Broncos sucked great big hairy moose balls. Nobody played the naked bootleg better and Plummer was the best right-handed QB in the league at rolling to his left and making accurate throws.
...
Wasn't Shanahan Elway's QB coach and eventually Broncos' OC (after returning from the Raiders) before getting the boot from Reeves (because he and Elway were so chummy that Reeves thought Shannahan was undermining his authority with the QB)?
Wasn't Shannahan the OC of the powerful 49'ers offense back in the early 90's, and didn't they win a SuperBowl with him as said OC?
I'll say it again, Kubiak is good because he learned under Shanahan, as opposed to your assertion that Kubiak made Shanahan look better.
Bottom line: Shannahan is an exceptional coaching talent (he's just not an effective GM), and your attempts to lessen his achievements is really sad. I've been a Broncos fan since the mid-seventies, and I would have been happy to see Shanahan remain coach for another ten post-Elway seasons...as I think he'd have eventually gotten things back on track.
khazim
and you're fooling yourself. The timeframe you've been a fan of the team has no bearing on your ability to quit dwelling on the past. The fact remains that the Shanahan-coached Broncos have won one playoff game in the last ten years and there is no getting around that. Add to that that the defense has actually continued to devolve in the same timeframe and special teams has been crap for half of Shanahan's tenure shows me:
1. He doesn't know defensive personnel (more of a knock on him as a GM)
2. He is a bad judge of coaching staff for Defense and Special teams (knock against him as a Head Coach)
3. He is a bad judge of character as some of his free agency signings (Dale Carter?) were known to have off the field issues when signed and they didn't change (that's a bad GM & Bad head coach)
4. At the end most of the team had tuned him out (Late to meetings/ Late to the airport bus with no repurcussions.)
#4 is by far, the most damning number. When you lose your team's ear, you're done, I don't care who you are.
Whatever Shanahan was last decade has not been built on in this decade. I remember when the name Shanahan meant something. Now it should be synonymous with "Guy who can't get it done without a HOF QB". A reminder to you all, the only superbowls Shanahan has been to have been with either John Elway or Steve Young.
[Edited on 1-7-2009 by khazim]
January 07, 2009 at 01:40PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
Originally posted by khazimI liked Plummer well enough, but Shanahan's schemes once had Bubby Brister executing the naked bootleg like a pro-bowler.
...
frankly, the way Plummer was run out of town by the Broncos sucked great big hairy moose balls. Nobody played the naked bootleg better and Plummer was the best right-handed QB in the league at rolling to his left and making accurate throws.
...
Wasn't Shanahan Elway's QB coach and eventually Broncos' OC (after returning from the Raiders) before getting the boot from Reeves (because he and Elway were so chummy that Reeves thought Shannahan was undermining his authority with the QB)?
Wasn't Shannahan the OC of the powerful 49'ers offense back in the early 90's, and didn't they win a SuperBowl with him as said OC?
I'll say it again, Kubiak is good because he learned under Shanahan, as opposed to your assertion that Kubiak made Shanahan look better.
Bottom line: Shannahan is an exceptional coaching talent (he's just not an effective GM), and your attempts to lessen his achievements is really sad. I've been a Broncos fan since the mid-seventies, and I would have been happy to see Shanahan remain coach for another ten post-Elway seasons...as I think he'd have eventually gotten things back on track.
and you're fooling yourself. The timeframe you've been a fan of the team has no bearing on your ability to quit dwelling on the past. The fact remains that the Shanahan-coached Broncos have won one playoff game in the last ten years and there is no getting around that. Add to that that the defense has actually continued to devolve in the same timeframe and special teams has been crap for half of Shanahan's tenure shows me:
1. He doesn't know defensive personnel (more of a knock on him as a GM)
2. He is a bad judge of coaching staff for Defense and Special teams (knock against him as a Head Coach)
3. He is a bad judge of character as some of his free agency signings (Dale Carter?) were known to have off the field issues when signed and they didn't change (that's a bad GM & Bad head coach)
4. At the end most of the team had tuned him out (Late to meetings/ Late to the airport bus with no repurcussions.)
#4 is by far, the most damning number. When you lose your team's ear, you're done, I don't care who you are.
Whatever Shanahan was last decade has not been built on in this decade. I remember when the name Shanahan meant something. Now it should be synonymous with "Guy who can't get it done without a HOF QB". A reminder to you all, the only superbowls Shanahan has been to have been with either John Elway or Steve Young.
[Edited on 1-7-2009 by khazim]
dirtdevil
oh good lord. of all the nonsense you've come up with in this thread, that one takes the blue ribbon. do you know what other head coaches haven't won a super bowl without a hof qb? Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Bill Belicheck (presumably), Jimmy Johnson, Hank Stram, Mike Holmgren (presumably, happy's opinion notwithstanding), Tony Dungy (again, presumably), John Madden and Weeb Ewbank. a bunch of bums on that list, clearly.
[Edited on 1-7-2009 by dirtdevil]
January 07, 2009 at 02:24PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
I remember when the name Shanahan meant something. Now it should be synonymous with "Guy who can't get it done without a HOF QB". A reminder to you all, the only superbowls Shanahan has been to have been with either John Elway or Steve Young.
oh good lord. of all the nonsense you've come up with in this thread, that one takes the blue ribbon. do you know what other head coaches haven't won a super bowl without a hof qb? Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Bill Belicheck (presumably), Jimmy Johnson, Hank Stram, Mike Holmgren (presumably, happy's opinion notwithstanding), Tony Dungy (again, presumably), John Madden and Weeb Ewbank. a bunch of bums on that list, clearly.
[Edited on 1-7-2009 by dirtdevil]