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krusecontrol
July 01, 2005 at 06:20PM View BBCode
at least Pokey Reese has a Ring, which neither Kent nor Biggio have, or are likely to ever have
barterer2002
I'm not saying they're indefensable. As far as Ashburn goes, I grew up listening to him broadcasting the Phillies and he's an icon in Philly but he was at his peak the fourth best centerfielder of his era and not even close to the top three. He was good defensively and had his skills offensively, hitting singles and drawing walks which obviously has its value. He also had some speed. Still though, I'd list him as marginal for the Hall of Fame. He was a good player for many years and an entertaining broadcaster for many more.
July 01, 2005 at 06:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
There are players on your list that I would defend as good HOF choices. Richie Ashburn deserves his spot.
I'm not saying they're indefensable. As far as Ashburn goes, I grew up listening to him broadcasting the Phillies and he's an icon in Philly but he was at his peak the fourth best centerfielder of his era and not even close to the top three. He was good defensively and had his skills offensively, hitting singles and drawing walks which obviously has its value. He also had some speed. Still though, I'd list him as marginal for the Hall of Fame. He was a good player for many years and an entertaining broadcaster for many more.
DougB
July 01, 2005 at 07:48PM View BBCode
Catfish Hunter did a lot by age 30. The problem is he did almost nothing after that. Also he was helped a lot by being on good teams and really was not all that dominant to be honest. In the end he should not be in the hall of fame. His record as a pitcher was not any better than Luis Tiant, Bob Welch, Jim Perry, Rick Reuschel, Vida Blue, Mickey Lolich, and dozens of other good but not hall worthy pitchers.
whiskybear
...but he was at his peak the fourth best centerfielder of his era and not even close to the top three. [/quote]
You absolutely cannot fault a player of Ashburn's calibre because there happened to be three sublime centerfielders playing in his time. In no way does that diminish Ashburn's accomplishments---instead, we should remark at how rare it is that four Hall of Fame-quality players fielded the same position in the same era.
July 02, 2005 at 01:36AM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by barterer2002[/i]
...but he was at his peak the fourth best centerfielder of his era and not even close to the top three. [/quote]
You absolutely cannot fault a player of Ashburn's calibre because there happened to be three sublime centerfielders playing in his time. In no way does that diminish Ashburn's accomplishments---instead, we should remark at how rare it is that four Hall of Fame-quality players fielded the same position in the same era.
ME
July 02, 2005 at 02:55AM View BBCode
Baseball Prospectus did a look at Jeff Kent a while back and basically said unless he continues to be very good for a few more year's he won't deserve it, and definately doesn't deserve it as of now.
youngallstar
Strong words coming from a Pirate fan
July 02, 2005 at 05:04AM View BBCode
Originally posted by krusecontrol
at least Pokey Reese has a Ring, which neither Kent nor Biggio have, or are likely to ever have
Strong words coming from a Pirate fan
youngallstar
Catfish was fairly dominant over a 5 year span
July 02, 2005 at 07:04AM View BBCode
Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP ERA *lgERA *ERA+
1971 25 OAK AL 21 11 37 37 16 4 0 0 273.7 225 103 90 27 80 181 4 2 1109 2.96 3.33 112
1972 26 OAK AL 21 7 38 37 16 5 1 0 295.3 200 74 67 21 70 191 3 3 1148 2.04 2.85 140
1973 27 OAK AL 21 5 36 36 11 3 0 0 256.3 222 105 95 39 69 124 1 2 1040 3.34 3.56 107
1974 28 OAK AL 25 12 41 41 23 6 0 0 318.3 268 97 88 25 46 143 4 1 1240 2.49 3.34 134
1975 29 NYY AL 23 14 39 39 30 7 0 0 328.0 248 107 94 25 83 177 5 7 1294 2.58 3.64 141
Catfish was fairly dominant over a 5 year span
ME
July 02, 2005 at 07:20AM View BBCode
That was a pitching-dominant era, see the league ERAs being in the mid-3s
youngallstar
July 02, 2005 at 07:33AM View BBCode
So 42-12 over a two year span and 111-49 over a 5 year span with an ERA in the mid 2's wasnt dominating? Damn.
barterer2002
Or 43-20 over 2 years and 95-56 over 5 with an ERA about a half fun below the league average. Led the league in wins once, finished second three other times
The point is that Dwight Gooden and Dave Stewart, the pitchers above, had dominant 2-5 year periods but neither is, IMO a hall of fame pitcher. Certainly Catfish had a good stretch but he's a margainly member of the HOF.
July 02, 2005 at 01:09PM View BBCode
How about 41-13 over 2 years and 91-35 over 5 with an ERA that peaked at was in the mid 2s (about a run below the league average). Finished no lower than fifth in the league in wins over those 5 seasons.Or 43-20 over 2 years and 95-56 over 5 with an ERA about a half fun below the league average. Led the league in wins once, finished second three other times
The point is that Dwight Gooden and Dave Stewart, the pitchers above, had dominant 2-5 year periods but neither is, IMO a hall of fame pitcher. Certainly Catfish had a good stretch but he's a margainly member of the HOF.