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cubfan531
((Not that they're bad players, their contracts just really suck))
[Edited on 4-20-2010 by cubfan531]
April 20, 2010 at 09:07PM View BBCode
Ryno may manage the Cubs to a World Series, but not until at least 2015, when the team's free of all its bad contracts (Zambrano and Soriano amongst others).((Not that they're bad players, their contracts just really suck))
[Edited on 4-20-2010 by cubfan531]
khazim
April 20, 2010 at 09:27PM View BBCode
it better be 2015. According to Back to the Future that's when the Cubs beat the Florida Gators in the World series.
Jon
Hell, Ken Griffey Jr. didn't even wait to retire before he started to overstay his welcome. Yet he still gets the biggest cheers at Safeco. In other words, Seattls fans are dumbs.
April 21, 2010 at 01:16AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
It's one of those weird things that, no matter how many legacy hires flame out and turn the relationship between player and team somewhat sour, people still pine for them.
Hell, Ken Griffey Jr. didn't even wait to retire before he started to overstay his welcome. Yet he still gets the biggest cheers at Safeco. In other words, Seattls fans are dumbs.
happy
No, next year is when they should have the pieces, the question is whether or not they can sign players to fill the holes.
The Orioles have the following good players:
2B Brian Roberts, currently INJURED (also .143/.251/.214)
OF Adam Jones, currently .230/.254/.377
OF Nick Markakis, currently .240/.371/.380
C Matt Wieters, currently .266/.352/.347
I mean, those are 4 star quality hitters, even if they are currently slumping. Nothing wrong with having a team with them batting 1-4, or maybe 1-3, 5. You sign 5 guys who deserve to be on a competent major league team to go with them, maybe one star 4 sold guys, and that would probably be a solid lineup.
And then there is the pitching. Matusz was supposed to be awesome, and he is 23ks, 7 BBs....
Guthrie is 14ks, 3 BBs, so he is playing pretty damn well too. Also LOL kevin Millwood has 20ks and 1 BB, so he is pitching great. So who knows, maybe those 3 could be 3 of 5 guys for a lineup. Although Millwood is 35 and we all know he actually sucks, but whatever.
Point is, next year they sign a few pitchers, basically revamp the entire back of the lineup, and then come in 4th with a team that is better than the entire AL + NL West.
[Edited on 4-21-2010 by happy]
April 21, 2010 at 02:02AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jon
So the O's got no-hit through 6 innings by a dude named Doug Fister. I had no idea just how dogshit this team was until tonight. Wasn't this supposed to be the year they finally started playing competent baseball?
No, next year is when they should have the pieces, the question is whether or not they can sign players to fill the holes.
The Orioles have the following good players:
2B Brian Roberts, currently INJURED (also .143/.251/.214)
OF Adam Jones, currently .230/.254/.377
OF Nick Markakis, currently .240/.371/.380
C Matt Wieters, currently .266/.352/.347
I mean, those are 4 star quality hitters, even if they are currently slumping. Nothing wrong with having a team with them batting 1-4, or maybe 1-3, 5. You sign 5 guys who deserve to be on a competent major league team to go with them, maybe one star 4 sold guys, and that would probably be a solid lineup.
And then there is the pitching. Matusz was supposed to be awesome, and he is 23ks, 7 BBs....
Guthrie is 14ks, 3 BBs, so he is playing pretty damn well too. Also LOL kevin Millwood has 20ks and 1 BB, so he is pitching great. So who knows, maybe those 3 could be 3 of 5 guys for a lineup. Although Millwood is 35 and we all know he actually sucks, but whatever.
Point is, next year they sign a few pitchers, basically revamp the entire back of the lineup, and then come in 4th with a team that is better than the entire AL + NL West.
[Edited on 4-21-2010 by happy]
khazim
April 28, 2010 at 03:10PM View BBCode
Jimenez extended his shutout innings streak to 22 and 1/3 innings with 6 more shutout innings pitched last night.
shep1582
It's the economy, stupid...
(Oh, the legacy hire thing... name the great players who came back to lead their former teams to greatness.)
((Frank Robinson is the only truly great player I can think of who ever had any success, and his was short lived, and I imagine there were some fist fights along the way.))
April 28, 2010 at 03:41PM View BBCode
Say what you want about Pete Rose, he's made a lot of low level bookies a whole lotsa $$$.It's the economy, stupid...
(Oh, the legacy hire thing... name the great players who came back to lead their former teams to greatness.)
((Frank Robinson is the only truly great player I can think of who ever had any success, and his was short lived, and I imagine there were some fist fights along the way.))
khazim
April 28, 2010 at 04:03PM View BBCode
Well Nolan Ryan's position with Texas has done wonders in helping their starting pitching. The jury is still out if his old school approach will ultimately be as successful as Ryan imagines it will be.
Tyles
On what grounds do you find this to be true?
April 28, 2010 at 04:06PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Well Nolan Ryan's position with Texas has done wonders in helping their starting pitching.
On what grounds do you find this to be true?
tm4559
(and fatshit nick johnson, who can't be persuaded to actually swing at a strike, should eatshit and die along with the umpires who refuse to call a strike on him, even when it be across the plate, and between the top and bottom of his belt buckle. nick johnson actually has a smaller strike zone than Chone Figgins.)
in other and unrelated news, i think the Mariners are doing pretty well. hugs for tyles and jon.
April 28, 2010 at 04:17PM View BBCode
well, the orioles won a game.(and fatshit nick johnson, who can't be persuaded to actually swing at a strike, should eatshit and die along with the umpires who refuse to call a strike on him, even when it be across the plate, and between the top and bottom of his belt buckle. nick johnson actually has a smaller strike zone than Chone Figgins.)
in other and unrelated news, i think the Mariners are doing pretty well. hugs for tyles and jon.
Tyles
April 28, 2010 at 04:30PM View BBCode
Nick Johnson understands his limitations better .than any other ballplayer. Think about it -- you put any of us at the plate, our best possible hope at a positive outcome would be to leave the bat on our shoulders and pray for a walk, right? That's what weakass Nick Johnson does every single day.
tm4559
April 28, 2010 at 04:35PM View BBCode
they got a bargain, truly. he probably even teach robinson cano how to take a walk (which, he don't need to take many, but a few be ok). there is absolutely no hope that he could ever get through to Curtis Granderson.
khazim
Team ERA 2007: 4.75
Team ERA 2008: 5.37 (Ryan's first season as rangers president)
Team ERA 2009: 4.38
Team ERA 2010: 3.86
April 28, 2010 at 04:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Tyles
Originally posted by khazim
Well Nolan Ryan's position with Texas has done wonders in helping their starting pitching.
On what grounds do you find this to be true?
Team ERA 2007: 4.75
Team ERA 2008: 5.37 (Ryan's first season as rangers president)
Team ERA 2009: 4.38
Team ERA 2010: 3.86
shep1582
I love Nolan as much as anybody, but ummmm... done wonders?
Compared to what? Dumass Tom House?
They were 8th in ERA in 2009, and 6th this year.
I'm not being contentious here, but what exactly are these wonders?
Ryan was a conditioning nut, still is, and I imagine instilling discipline in a staff to stay in shape is a good thing. He always said Mike Scott could have been a great pitcher, longer, had he stayed in shape. If somehow he can make conditioning mandatory, it should have a positive impact.
On the flip side, Nolan was a physical freak o'nature. His arm was supernaturally durable, and he threw 100+ mph. Genetics played a huge role in his success. As long as he understands that, and that most guys can't come close to his physical gifts, he may have long term success developing pitchers, and making them better than they have any right to be.
He's beloved down here because of his "aw shucks" kind of country humility, but I wonder if that plays with kids from NY or Cali. His presence certainly gets their attention, I'm sure. Eventually, what he's selling has to work, or he'll lose his audience.
April 28, 2010 at 04:46PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Well Nolan Ryan's position with Texas has done wonders in helping their starting pitching. The jury is still out if his old school approach will ultimately be as successful as Ryan imagines it will be.
I love Nolan as much as anybody, but ummmm... done wonders?
Compared to what? Dumass Tom House?
They were 8th in ERA in 2009, and 6th this year.
I'm not being contentious here, but what exactly are these wonders?
Ryan was a conditioning nut, still is, and I imagine instilling discipline in a staff to stay in shape is a good thing. He always said Mike Scott could have been a great pitcher, longer, had he stayed in shape. If somehow he can make conditioning mandatory, it should have a positive impact.
On the flip side, Nolan was a physical freak o'nature. His arm was supernaturally durable, and he threw 100+ mph. Genetics played a huge role in his success. As long as he understands that, and that most guys can't come close to his physical gifts, he may have long term success developing pitchers, and making them better than they have any right to be.
He's beloved down here because of his "aw shucks" kind of country humility, but I wonder if that plays with kids from NY or Cali. His presence certainly gets their attention, I'm sure. Eventually, what he's selling has to work, or he'll lose his audience.
Tyles
Team ERA 2007: 4.75
Team ERA 2008: 5.37 (Ryan's first season as rangers president)
Team ERA 2009: 4.38
Team ERA 2010: 3.86 [/quote]
So the team ERA actually gets worse in Ryan's first season, but Kevin Millwood has a good 2009 and suddenly he is a genius.
April 28, 2010 at 04:51PM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by khazim[/i]
Team ERA 2007: 4.75
Team ERA 2008: 5.37 (Ryan's first season as rangers president)
Team ERA 2009: 4.38
Team ERA 2010: 3.86 [/quote]
So the team ERA actually gets worse in Ryan's first season, but Kevin Millwood has a good 2009 and suddenly he is a genius.
khazim
Yes, Ryan was a freak of nature, but he was well known for his conditioning regimen, especially keepign his legs healthy. The conditioning will do nothing but help the Rangers.
April 28, 2010 at 05:07PM View BBCode
I'll go one further. the ligamant tear that caused hi to bow out before the end of the 1993 season was so bad that when the one and only pitch he threw after the tear clocked in only at 98 mph, you knew something was wrong.Yes, Ryan was a freak of nature, but he was well known for his conditioning regimen, especially keepign his legs healthy. The conditioning will do nothing but help the Rangers.
tworoosters
Essentially he has the starters throwing more between games, has eliminated pitch counts and increased conditioning .
Texas is never going to have top of the league pitching in that park with that weather but it does appear over a short sample that his policies are having some impact.
April 28, 2010 at 05:14PM View BBCode
Ryan instituted new policies, and hired a new pitching coach, prior to the 2009 season. Without Millwood's numbers the team ERA was 4.50, their best since 1993 ( ironically the last year Ryan pitched) .Essentially he has the starters throwing more between games, has eliminated pitch counts and increased conditioning .
Texas is never going to have top of the league pitching in that park with that weather but it does appear over a short sample that his policies are having some impact.
khazim
"Coach Bird, why are we doing it like this?"
"Because I'm Larry censored Bird"
April 28, 2010 at 05:19PM View BBCode
Besides, Ryan coaching up pitchers is probably as hard for him as coaching basketball was for Larry Bird."Coach Bird, why are we doing it like this?"
"Because I'm Larry censored Bird"
Tyles
April 28, 2010 at 05:23PM View BBCode
I mean, I don't need to be the one to point out that you need a healthy staff around to post a good team ERA, and that eliminating pitch counts won't help that cause.
khazim
April 28, 2010 at 05:29PM View BBCode
Keeping your starting pitching in more innings, in theory, gives more good innings to your 5 best pitchers, which should keep your team ERA lower.
tm4559
April 28, 2010 at 05:30PM View BBCode
i think maybe the idea there is no pitch count might help some of the pitchers a little bit tyles (certainly better conditioning can't hurt). do the texas pitchers in fact go longer in games, rack up significantly higher pitch counts than other clubs' pitchers? if they don't, then the elimination of the pitch count is just sort of a talking point, and the manager/pitching coach might be truly following a different agenda in fact.
tm4559
April 28, 2010 at 05:33PM View BBCode
and any team, be it the rangers or the devil rays or whoever, is going to stress the pitch count less as they stop "developing" and start trying to compete, no? there has to be pot of gold at the end of this development rainbow, right? or they are just saving arms to go off and be sucessful for other clubs when they walk.
FuriousGiorge
"Um, are you guys working?"
"Yes, sir."
"Can you . . . work any harder?"
"Sure thing, boss!"
April 28, 2010 at 05:36PM View BBCode
I love the implication that the team needed to hire Nolan Ryan in order to teach their pitchers that better conditioning is a good thing. This is the Homer Simpson management style."Um, are you guys working?"
"Yes, sir."
"Can you . . . work any harder?"
"Sure thing, boss!"