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happy
Ichiro-- a real 3000 hit guy?
July 29, 2008 at 04:56PM View BBCode
Well, ichiro is at 2,999 hits, but 1,300 of them were in japan. in my mind this would be like counting your minor league stats towards your total hits.
whiskybear
July 29, 2008 at 05:05PM View BBCode
He has 3,000 hits as a professional, but not as a major leaguer (the minor league/Japanese league comparison is overused and far from perfect, though).
happy
July 29, 2008 at 05:23PM View BBCode
they are treating it like 3,000 hits. they will probably act like its 3,000 legitimate hits when considering his HOF credentials. but I bet if all 3,000 hits were in japan he would have no chance of making the hall of fame.
happy
Also, although I agree they arent giving as much fanfare for this as a normal 3,000 hit scenario, their [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080729&content_id=3217965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp?c_id=mlb]story[/url] still seems to try to make it sound like a bigger deal than it actually is.
[Edited on 7-29-2008 by happy]
July 29, 2008 at 05:31PM View BBCode
I can guaruntee you that you will hear AT LEAST one writer defending ichiro's HOF credentials by stating "He has 3,XXX hits" and someone will say "But some of those were in japan" and the dumb writer will respond with something along the lines of "but a hit is a hit!" You are giving the dumb writers too much credit :PAlso, although I agree they arent giving as much fanfare for this as a normal 3,000 hit scenario, their [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080729&content_id=3217965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp?c_id=mlb]story[/url] still seems to try to make it sound like a bigger deal than it actually is.
[Edited on 7-29-2008 by happy]
whiskybear
July 29, 2008 at 05:31PM View BBCode
He will no doubt be going into the Hall of Fame, though.
FuriousGiorge
This is a far cry from saying that "they" will treat it this way. In a world where Skip Bayless is employed as a sports commentator, at least one writer will defend any position, no matter how ridiculous. The vast, vast majority of fans and commentators do not believe that Ichiro's Japanese hits count towards his total.
July 29, 2008 at 05:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
I can guaruntee you that you will hear AT LEAST one writer defending ichiro's HOF credentials by stating "He has 3,XXX hits" and someone will say "But some of those were in japan" and the dumb writer will respond with something along the lines of "but a hit is a hit!" You are giving the dumb writers too much credit :P
This is a far cry from saying that "they" will treat it this way. In a world where Skip Bayless is employed as a sports commentator, at least one writer will defend any position, no matter how ridiculous. The vast, vast majority of fans and commentators do not believe that Ichiro's Japanese hits count towards his total.
happy
July 29, 2008 at 05:34PM View BBCode
Ugh. Maybe im around more traditional baseball fans than you.
Bones2484
Seems like a silly bet to take.
July 29, 2008 at 06:00PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
but I bet if all 3,000 hits were in japan he would have no chance of making the hall of fame.
Seems like a silly bet to take.
barterer2002
July 29, 2008 at 06:12PM View BBCode
Ichiro's Japanese hits are as appropriate to consider as Warren Moon's CFL passing yards were.
khazim
July 29, 2008 at 06:17PM View BBCode
Moon's NFL only credentials were good enough to warrant HOF status. Ichiro need to get to 2,800 hits to make the same claim. Granted, he could potentially get to 3k MLB hits in 6-7 seasons at the pace is is on.
FuriousGiorge
July 29, 2008 at 06:27PM View BBCode
Why would he have to get to some arbitrary round number of hits in order to be a Hall of Famer?
whiskybear
He will be a Hall of Famer because he will in all likelihood retire with at least 2,500 career hits, an average of better than 200 hits per season, the single-season record for hits, and a legacy as the first position player to come over from Japan, and as thus far the best Japanese player in MLB history.
July 29, 2008 at 06:34PM View BBCode
I guess because that would put him at 4,000 hits as a professional.He will be a Hall of Famer because he will in all likelihood retire with at least 2,500 career hits, an average of better than 200 hits per season, the single-season record for hits, and a legacy as the first position player to come over from Japan, and as thus far the best Japanese player in MLB history.
khazim
because no pure hitter has gotten into the HOF with fewer than 2,800 hits. The numbers speak for themselves.
July 29, 2008 at 06:46PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Why would he have to get to some arbitrary round number of hits in order to be a Hall of Famer?
because no pure hitter has gotten into the HOF with fewer than 2,800 hits. The numbers speak for themselves.
happy
July 29, 2008 at 06:46PM View BBCode
He'll make it in from the japanese thing even though he might not really deserve it if his MLB career was viewed in a void (because of a short career length).
happy
lol, circular argument?
definition of pure hitter = "player with over 2800 hits"?
July 29, 2008 at 06:47PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Why would he have to get to some arbitrary round number of hits in order to be a Hall of Famer?
because no pure hitter has gotten into the HOF with fewer than 2,800 hits. The numbers speak for themselves.
lol, circular argument?
definition of pure hitter = "player with over 2800 hits"?
whiskybear
July 29, 2008 at 06:48PM View BBCode
Does "pure hitter" mean non-pitcher? Or does it mean "non-Bill Mazeroski"?
khazim
July 29, 2008 at 07:01PM View BBCode
it means someone not known for either WS prowess (See Phil Rizutto) or as a HR threat (Mike Schmidt). Think low HR totals, high hits and OBP.
happy
Jim O'Rourke- 2643
Ed Delahanty-2596
Dan Brouthers-2296
Hugh Duffy- 2282
Jimmy Collins- 1999
King Kelly- 1813
Buck Ewing- 1625
Roger Bresnahan-1252
Thats only going up to 1945 inductees...
July 29, 2008 at 07:01PM View BBCode
Lou Gherig- 2721Jim O'Rourke- 2643
Ed Delahanty-2596
Dan Brouthers-2296
Hugh Duffy- 2282
Jimmy Collins- 1999
King Kelly- 1813
Buck Ewing- 1625
Roger Bresnahan-1252
Thats only going up to 1945 inductees...
FuriousGiorge
God, this is the nadir of Hall of Fame arguments.
July 29, 2008 at 07:02PM View BBCode
Jackie f-ing Robinson.God, this is the nadir of Hall of Fame arguments.
happy
July 29, 2008 at 07:03PM View BBCode
by the way, Buck Ewing had 73 career home runs, and was never 1st or 2nd in SLG percentage. he did nothing special in the 2 WS games he was in from what I can tell...
whiskybear
(Excuse me, but his middle name was Roosevelt. It was a question last night at quiz night.)
[Edited on 7-29-2008 by whiskybear]
July 29, 2008 at 07:04PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Jackie f-ing Robinson.
God, this is the nadir of Hall of Fame arguments.
(Excuse me, but his middle name was Roosevelt. It was a question last night at quiz night.)
[Edited on 7-29-2008 by whiskybear]