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Admin
6/1/1962
A trade has been completed between the Kansas City Athletics and the Arizona Drillers. The Arizona Drillers receive Michael Vanguard from the Kansas City Athletics in exchange for Draft Pick - 1964 Round 2 (ARI).
Player Card for this trade:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=5119279
Starting tomorrow on the game side at www.simdynasty.com, you should see a popup window asking for your opinion. If 66% of the owners who vote, vote to overturn, we will reverse the trade. Owners involved in the trade are not eligible to vote. Voting will go through until at least Friday.
See this thread for info on this process:
http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=146616
We will also included a 3rd parties unbiased opinion of the deal. This is from barterer2002, who only looked at the trade itself and has no knowledge of who owns the teams. I have asked him to post that here when he gets a minute. The reason we ask barterer to give an opinion is because of past complaints in other trade protest proceedings where owners felt that someone should give an unbiased opinion of the deal. Of course, I don't want to touch that myself so that's why we bring in barterer to give an opinion. You can do whatever you like with his opinion.
Tyson
Trade Protest
August 11, 2009 at 02:44PM View BBCode
We have received 3 complaints on this trade:6/1/1962
A trade has been completed between the Kansas City Athletics and the Arizona Drillers. The Arizona Drillers receive Michael Vanguard from the Kansas City Athletics in exchange for Draft Pick - 1964 Round 2 (ARI).
Player Card for this trade:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=5119279
Starting tomorrow on the game side at www.simdynasty.com, you should see a popup window asking for your opinion. If 66% of the owners who vote, vote to overturn, we will reverse the trade. Owners involved in the trade are not eligible to vote. Voting will go through until at least Friday.
See this thread for info on this process:
http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=146616
We will also included a 3rd parties unbiased opinion of the deal. This is from barterer2002, who only looked at the trade itself and has no knowledge of who owns the teams. I have asked him to post that here when he gets a minute. The reason we ask barterer to give an opinion is because of past complaints in other trade protest proceedings where owners felt that someone should give an unbiased opinion of the deal. Of course, I don't want to touch that myself so that's why we bring in barterer to give an opinion. You can do whatever you like with his opinion.
Tyson
barterer2002
Arizona gets
Michael Vanguard an OS32 RF He's a good contact/good speed hitter, some extra base power but mostly in dubs and trips with 12-15 HR power. May hit 20 in a good year. A good 1-2 or 6-8 hitter but not middle of the order.
Kansas City gets
2nd round pick
I'm not sure what the issue here is. The general going rate for a mid to late 30s player is usually a 2nd round pick. Do teams get more sometimes, yes. Usually though they get more for top talent, Vanguard is second tier. Good but not great. The 2nd seems perfectly reasonable to me and is pretty much what I'd offer for him. Because he's OS32 and not OS33 or OS34 I might have to sweeten it with a minor (not top) prospect-the kind of guy I have 2 or 3 CPs on without plans to increase but nothing earth shaking.
I'd easily uphold this one unless there is something else going on in the league that you are aware of that I'm not.
August 11, 2009 at 03:01PM View BBCode
OK, lets see what we have hereArizona gets
Michael Vanguard an OS32 RF He's a good contact/good speed hitter, some extra base power but mostly in dubs and trips with 12-15 HR power. May hit 20 in a good year. A good 1-2 or 6-8 hitter but not middle of the order.
Kansas City gets
2nd round pick
I'm not sure what the issue here is. The general going rate for a mid to late 30s player is usually a 2nd round pick. Do teams get more sometimes, yes. Usually though they get more for top talent, Vanguard is second tier. Good but not great. The 2nd seems perfectly reasonable to me and is pretty much what I'd offer for him. Because he's OS32 and not OS33 or OS34 I might have to sweeten it with a minor (not top) prospect-the kind of guy I have 2 or 3 CPs on without plans to increase but nothing earth shaking.
I'd easily uphold this one unless there is something else going on in the league that you are aware of that I'm not.
ryang
- In this league, it seems to be the norm for more to be given up to make a trade happen rather than less. I mean, look what I gave up for Lomasney a couple years back, and he's not THAT much better:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=5062296
Lomasney was only 'A' rated because of his arm and range. If those were a letter less, he'd be 'A-' as well which would have cost a little less in terms of picks...
I think in this league, 2-second rounders or even a late 1st rounder probably would make it look better rather than a single, what is probably going to be a late, second rounder...which leads me to my next conclusion...
- The pick is in 1964, but Arizona looks strong enough to compete until then, IMO. Which means it will be towards the end of the round, thus making the pick a little less valuable.
I also believe Vanguard can produce solid stolen base numbers if the owners settings are set correctly with that A+ speed he's got. And coupled with the good contact and OK power, its not like his OBP will be terrible, either.
A couple other things that may play into this is that Vanguard's health is also a little above average coupled with the 'respect' factor because he was the 2nd overall pick in the '51 draft, which may prompt for a little more in return than just a second round pick...
[Edited on 8-11-2009 by ryang]
August 11, 2009 at 03:30PM View BBCode
I think there are a few reasons why owners can dispute this trade:- In this league, it seems to be the norm for more to be given up to make a trade happen rather than less. I mean, look what I gave up for Lomasney a couple years back, and he's not THAT much better:
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=5062296
Lomasney was only 'A' rated because of his arm and range. If those were a letter less, he'd be 'A-' as well which would have cost a little less in terms of picks...
I think in this league, 2-second rounders or even a late 1st rounder probably would make it look better rather than a single, what is probably going to be a late, second rounder...which leads me to my next conclusion...
- The pick is in 1964, but Arizona looks strong enough to compete until then, IMO. Which means it will be towards the end of the round, thus making the pick a little less valuable.
I also believe Vanguard can produce solid stolen base numbers if the owners settings are set correctly with that A+ speed he's got. And coupled with the good contact and OK power, its not like his OBP will be terrible, either.
A couple other things that may play into this is that Vanguard's health is also a little above average coupled with the 'respect' factor because he was the 2nd overall pick in the '51 draft, which may prompt for a little more in return than just a second round pick...
[Edited on 8-11-2009 by ryang]
skyraider
[Edited on 8-12-2009 by skyraider]
August 12, 2009 at 12:34AM View BBCode
Thank you, it will be a high 2nd rounder, but most of all Vanguard was just sitting here on the bench because I want to give IC's to younger guys. That's all.[Edited on 8-12-2009 by skyraider]
lilegends
I'm not trying to upset anyone....
He made the offer........I accepted it....
August 12, 2009 at 01:16AM View BBCode
I have no problem reversing the trade.........I'm not trying to upset anyone....
He made the offer........I accepted it....
ryang
Believe me, I'm not going to lose sleep over a trade in SimD unless its REALLY bad.
August 12, 2009 at 12:29PM View BBCode
I can see both sides of the argument...I was just pointing out things Bart probably didn't know regarding the history of our league and adding my thoughts about the player.Believe me, I'm not going to lose sleep over a trade in SimD unless its REALLY bad.
lilegends
second 2nd round pick to KC regardless of the
results of the vote..
Thanks
-Mike
August 12, 2009 at 05:01PM View BBCode
I respect everyones opinion.. I plan to offer asecond 2nd round pick to KC regardless of the
results of the vote..
Thanks
-Mike
Admin
Thanks to everyone for remaining very civil throughout the process. I appreciate that.
Tyson
August 12, 2009 at 05:27PM View BBCode
8 voted to let the trade stand, 5 voted to overturn, 1 guy didn't vote yet. So the trade will stand.Thanks to everyone for remaining very civil throughout the process. I appreciate that.
Tyson
skyraider
I thought everyone was protesting because I got a 2nd rounder for Vanguard, not because "all" I got was a second rounder. I just felt lucky to get a second rounder in return. I guess I missed it. Vanguard was just sitting here. I know other owners have looked at my lineup in the past and have traded for older guys that were sitting around. I just never thought Vanguard could have pulled in more than a 2nd, sorry guys.:saint:
August 12, 2009 at 10:12PM View BBCode
Thank you Tyson.I thought everyone was protesting because I got a 2nd rounder for Vanguard, not because "all" I got was a second rounder. I just felt lucky to get a second rounder in return. I guess I missed it. Vanguard was just sitting here. I know other owners have looked at my lineup in the past and have traded for older guys that were sitting around. I just never thought Vanguard could have pulled in more than a 2nd, sorry guys.:saint:
skyraider
For the record, this trade was offered and I declined it since the original trade was upheld.
August 13, 2009 at 11:04AM View BBCode
I respect everyones opinion.. I plan to offer a
second 2nd round pick to KC regardless of the
results of the vote..
Thanks
-Mike
For the record, this trade was offered and I declined it since the original trade was upheld.
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