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Jughead
Six no-hit innings tonight at AAA. This guy reminds me of those A overall mutants that ABE generates at draft time every now and then. Who was the last pitcher to generate this type of hype BASED ON MINOR LEAGUE STATS? It's not like people are just trading stories about this guy. On paper he's done it all, and in practice he has done it all so far. I have never seen anything like this before.
Russ Ortiz had some amazing minor league stats, but he came back to earth before he made it to the big club. But when I got to see him pitch in San Jose, he was a lights out closer. There. Stephen Strasburg is the next Russ Ortiz.
Stephen Strasburg
May 13, 2010 at 02:16AM View BBCode
I didn't see a thread for him, and I feel he deserves one.Six no-hit innings tonight at AAA. This guy reminds me of those A overall mutants that ABE generates at draft time every now and then. Who was the last pitcher to generate this type of hype BASED ON MINOR LEAGUE STATS? It's not like people are just trading stories about this guy. On paper he's done it all, and in practice he has done it all so far. I have never seen anything like this before.
Russ Ortiz had some amazing minor league stats, but he came back to earth before he made it to the big club. But when I got to see him pitch in San Jose, he was a lights out closer. There. Stephen Strasburg is the next Russ Ortiz.
Tyles
May 13, 2010 at 02:38AM View BBCode
They raised quite the fuss about Mark Prior when his draft day was coming up about a decade ago. I was pretty young, but I remember the Todd Van Poppel and Ben McDonald hype machines from a decade before that. But that was essentially pre-Internet, and couldn't possibly have matched the Prior and Strasburg buzz.
tworoosters
Bob Feller was in the majors at 18 and went 24-9 the season that he turned 21, I'm guessing there was some hype around him.
Then there's Prior, Rick Ankiel, Brien Taylor, Matt Anderson and David Clyde as the other side of the coin.
As long as Strasburg doesn't let all the money, or the cheeseburgers, get to him he should be fine
May 13, 2010 at 03:28AM View BBCode
There was lots of hype about CC Sabathia, Josh Beckett, Justin Verlander and Felix Hernandez and they seem to be doing alright.Bob Feller was in the majors at 18 and went 24-9 the season that he turned 21, I'm guessing there was some hype around him.
Then there's Prior, Rick Ankiel, Brien Taylor, Matt Anderson and David Clyde as the other side of the coin.
As long as Strasburg doesn't let all the money, or the cheeseburgers, get to him he should be fine
shep1582
As long as the Gnats handle him correctly and his arm is healthy, he should be a good pitcher.
Let's wait a few years before we anoint him, shall we?
May 13, 2010 at 03:56PM View BBCode
David Clyde, anyone?As long as the Gnats handle him correctly and his arm is healthy, he should be a good pitcher.
Let's wait a few years before we anoint him, shall we?
tm4559
(and maybe mark prior was just special in his own way, and every pitcher that does 211 innings at 22 doesn't have to end up the same way.
((also, nobody is going to let strasberg pitch all that much anyway. for all that money though, he can damn sure come up here and help the club sell some tickets. yes, he can do that.))
May 13, 2010 at 05:50PM View BBCode
how old is strasberg? because david clyde threw 217 innings in the majors before he was 21.(and maybe mark prior was just special in his own way, and every pitcher that does 211 innings at 22 doesn't have to end up the same way.
((also, nobody is going to let strasberg pitch all that much anyway. for all that money though, he can damn sure come up here and help the club sell some tickets. yes, he can do that.))
shep1582
May 13, 2010 at 06:12PM View BBCode
i referred to Clyde only because he was the "greatest pitcher of all time" before he ever earned it, dad.
tm4559
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by tm4559]
May 13, 2010 at 06:14PM View BBCode
he was quite the sensation when he started, for sure.[Edited on 5-13-2010 by tm4559]
shep1582
He may have developed arm trouble anyway, but we'll never know.
May 13, 2010 at 06:18PM View BBCode
Had the Rangers had a brain cell at that time, they would have known not to throw him out there.He may have developed arm trouble anyway, but we'll never know.
tm4559
(and of course innings is a poor way to count. that is why they have the pitch counts. strasberg does have some mileage on that arm coming in. a hitter, a team would have tried to sign fast and get them right on to the minors to get going. they did that with zimmerman, he went right to playing. but it is easy to see now why they really weren't in a hurry for him to sign. just dragged it out, then let him pitch a little in the fall league. not much.)
i mean, his senior year, 195 K in 109 innings. 19 walks. 59 hits.
he goes like 6 ip in the minors now. so his 109 innings was like 18 six inning outings.
if he averaged four pitches in those 195K+59 hits (i think that is pretty conservative, almost certainly too conservative) that is 1016 pitches. for the 19 walks, maybe five pitches? still pretty conservative right? so another 95. total of about 1111 pitches. that is an average of about 61 pitches per six inning outing. and that 1111 seems low, for sure, anyway.
(i mean of course there are all the other outs not by K. so the count had to be well above 61. in fact figuring the other 334 (non strikeout) outs at four pitches each, we get 1336 more pitches and the pitch count per 6 inning outing goes to about 135.)
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by tm4559]
May 13, 2010 at 06:41PM View BBCode
it is kind of strange. i mean, if he stayed in the minors, he probably pitched that many innings. 93 and 117 in the first two seasons. you will recall it (teenage pitcher in the majors) was kind of a thing that got the Rangers in the news though, when nobody outside of Dallas there thought about them very much.(and of course innings is a poor way to count. that is why they have the pitch counts. strasberg does have some mileage on that arm coming in. a hitter, a team would have tried to sign fast and get them right on to the minors to get going. they did that with zimmerman, he went right to playing. but it is easy to see now why they really weren't in a hurry for him to sign. just dragged it out, then let him pitch a little in the fall league. not much.)
i mean, his senior year, 195 K in 109 innings. 19 walks. 59 hits.
he goes like 6 ip in the minors now. so his 109 innings was like 18 six inning outings.
if he averaged four pitches in those 195K+59 hits (i think that is pretty conservative, almost certainly too conservative) that is 1016 pitches. for the 19 walks, maybe five pitches? still pretty conservative right? so another 95. total of about 1111 pitches. that is an average of about 61 pitches per six inning outing. and that 1111 seems low, for sure, anyway.
(i mean of course there are all the other outs not by K. so the count had to be well above 61. in fact figuring the other 334 (non strikeout) outs at four pitches each, we get 1336 more pitches and the pitch count per 6 inning outing goes to about 135.)
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by tm4559]
shep1582
Name the pitchers who went to the majors straight out of HS and had long term success... the Astros did this with Dierker, and his arm was shot by 27.
When you face minor league hitters, you don't have to "bring it" on every pitch. Good coaches would have shown him how to save his best pitches for the best hitters. Heck, they may have taught him an off speed pitch or two, so that every pitch didn't have to be at maximum force on his young arm.
I'm no pitching coach, or any where close, and I'm remembering this stuff about him from memory. I think history has shown us that bringing up kid pitchers is a bad idea. I think everyone knew it back then, too.
Everyone but the Rangers, I mean.
May 13, 2010 at 08:10PM View BBCode
I just don't think Clyde was ready for the MLs yet. Sure he had the stuff, but he was barely 18, and giving him a year at A ball, AA, and AAA to learn the craft under the tutelage of professional pitching coaches would have helped immensely.Name the pitchers who went to the majors straight out of HS and had long term success... the Astros did this with Dierker, and his arm was shot by 27.
When you face minor league hitters, you don't have to "bring it" on every pitch. Good coaches would have shown him how to save his best pitches for the best hitters. Heck, they may have taught him an off speed pitch or two, so that every pitch didn't have to be at maximum force on his young arm.
I'm no pitching coach, or any where close, and I'm remembering this stuff about him from memory. I think history has shown us that bringing up kid pitchers is a bad idea. I think everyone knew it back then, too.
Everyone but the Rangers, I mean.
folifan19
May 14, 2010 at 03:20PM View BBCode
Brien Taylor, didn't he get shot in the pitching arm/shoulder in the off season? Not much can be done about that, except tell him to stay off the street in his free time. That's how I remember anyhow. And the 10 or so Topps rookie cards I have....
tm4559
(THE REDS! THE REDS HAVE SOME YOUNG PITCHERS! AND THEY HAVE DUSTY BAKER! NOTHING BAD COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN!)
May 14, 2010 at 03:27PM View BBCode
*giggle*(THE REDS! THE REDS HAVE SOME YOUNG PITCHERS! AND THEY HAVE DUSTY BAKER! NOTHING BAD COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN!)
folifan19
May 14, 2010 at 03:37PM View BBCode
You and your blind cat WERE downright huggable, till you started bustin' on Dusty!!!
folifan19
May 14, 2010 at 03:44PM View BBCode
In Dusty's defense, Cueto and Baily completed the Red's last two games. Cueto allowed 1 hit and 0 walks on 102 pitches. Bailey 4 hits, no walks and I think 86 pitches. It was less than 90 for sure. I think Walt Jocketty threatned to have his twig and berries removed if he ruined anymore young pitcher's arms....:D
tworoosters
Taylor dislocated his left, throwing, shoulder in an off season fight .
Regardless of the fact that the injury was not baseball related it speaks to the dangers of hyping teenagers, lots of shit can happen on the way to the big leagues, like "late night vigilantism at the trailer park gone wrong" .
May 14, 2010 at 04:05PM View BBCode
Originally posted by folifan19
Brien Taylor, didn't he get shot in the pitching arm/shoulder in the off season? Not much can be done about that, except tell him to stay off the street in his free time. That's how I remember anyhow. And the 10 or so Topps rookie cards I have....
Taylor dislocated his left, throwing, shoulder in an off season fight .
Regardless of the fact that the injury was not baseball related it speaks to the dangers of hyping teenagers, lots of shit can happen on the way to the big leagues, like "late night vigilantism at the trailer park gone wrong" .
tm4559
May 14, 2010 at 04:08PM View BBCode
yeah. roy hobbes didn't have to get shot by that crazy bitch. he could have blown his arm out striking out the whammer. it's all a matter of chance really.
shep1582
say it ain't so, foli...
May 14, 2010 at 11:16PM View BBCode
a reds fan and a steelers fan?say it ain't so, foli...
dirtdevil
May 15, 2010 at 03:25AM View BBCode
well no one is going to cheer for the pirates and bengals, now are they?
folifan19
May 15, 2010 at 12:50PM View BBCode
True story shep. Tons of Red/Steeler fans in Columbus. No one in Columbus likes the Bengals. Browns, Steelers and Cowboys is what you see around here. Columbus turned into a Tribe town in the mid 90's and hasn't swayed back to Cincy. Now our AAA team is with the Tribe. Piss on Cleveland....
shep1582
what was I thinking...
May 15, 2010 at 02:26PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
well no one is going to cheer for the pirates and bengals, now are they?
what was I thinking...
Lou.
May 15, 2010 at 06:18PM View BBCode
Because I had a brain fart, I typed Roy Hobbs in BR to keep up with the thread, and something interesting happened.
happy
May 17, 2010 at 05:09PM View BBCode
supposedly the only three pitchers who have gotten this much hype were Clemens, Prior, and now Strasburg. And honestly Prior was kind of the junks before he got injured. I mean, he has a 2.43 ERA as a 22 year old. He has a career 3.39 K/BB ratio. So id say they are 2 for 2 if thats the case.
shep1582
your beginning statement is incorrect. many many young pitchers got this much hype, in context, they just didn't have the 24/7 media exposure. Mark Fidrych was on the cover of every magazine and had at least this much hype. I could go on, but I won't.
it has always been, and will always be, such.
May 17, 2010 at 05:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by happy
supposedly the only three pitchers who have gotten this much hype were Clemens, Prior, and now Strasburg. And honestly Prior was kind of the junks before he got injured. I mean, he has a 2.43 ERA as a 22 year old. He has a career 3.39 K/BB ratio. So id say they are 2 for 2 if thats the case.
your beginning statement is incorrect. many many young pitchers got this much hype, in context, they just didn't have the 24/7 media exposure. Mark Fidrych was on the cover of every magazine and had at least this much hype. I could go on, but I won't.
it has always been, and will always be, such.
tworoosters
Clyde was a huge story and guys like Kris Benson, Matt Anderson and Darren Driefort were massively hyped as well.
Bob Feller, Vida Blue, Doc Gooden ........ I could go on but since "supposedly" is suchg a vague term I won't bother .
May 17, 2010 at 06:25PM View BBCode
Clemens was the 19th player taken, and 11th pitcher, in the draft in '83 after being taken in the 12th round out of high school, I don't recall much hype about him.Clyde was a huge story and guys like Kris Benson, Matt Anderson and Darren Driefort were massively hyped as well.
Bob Feller, Vida Blue, Doc Gooden ........ I could go on but since "supposedly" is suchg a vague term I won't bother .
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