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celamantia
Here are some sample games. Note that if you click on one of these links, you will get a blank screen for 30-40 seconds before Dynasty Vision appears; it seems to work faster in Firefox than IE.
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=296&cityid=1
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=298&cityid=20
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=295&cityid=50
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=300&cityid=45
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=297&cityid=24
Here are some of the things I am looking for:
Timekeeping - Is timekeeping realistic and does it follow the rules? At the beginning of each line on the play-by-play is the game clock. If the time listed ends in a period, then the clock is stopped going into that play.
Football rules - Do strange things happen that violate the rules? For example, I found situations earlier tonight where a touchdown would get scored as a safety, or a kickoff wouldn't happen after a touchdown if the touchdown happened at the end of the 1st quarter.
Complete "dumbness" - Right now the AI is rudimentary, so it doesn't play very smart football, but it should at least make an effort to not do truly dumb things like punt from easy field goal range.
Assorted display "glitchiness" - Things like the play by play nor reporting a first down even when one is earned, or the football displaying to the left of the goalposts when the play-by-play reports the kick is wide right, etc.
(Note: For testing purposes, there is only one offensive and one defensive formation... that is why the teams always seem to be setting up the same play after play.)
Thanks for your help!
--Chris
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by celamantia]
Dynasty Vision
May 28, 2010 at 06:56AM View BBCode
I am having some issues with the box score display on Dynasty Vision; it takes a full 30 seconds for just the Dynasty Vision display to load, and if the full statistics and box score are included, the game won't load at all. While I'm fixing that, though, it would be helpful if you could look at a few of the sample games and see if you can spot any severe flaws in the game. I am sure there are many, I seem to find at least one on each run-through.Here are some sample games. Note that if you click on one of these links, you will get a blank screen for 30-40 seconds before Dynasty Vision appears; it seems to work faster in Firefox than IE.
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=296&cityid=1
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=298&cityid=20
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=295&cityid=50
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=300&cityid=45
http://footballbeta.simdynasty.com:8080/boxscore.jsp?boxscoreid=297&cityid=24
Here are some of the things I am looking for:
Timekeeping - Is timekeeping realistic and does it follow the rules? At the beginning of each line on the play-by-play is the game clock. If the time listed ends in a period, then the clock is stopped going into that play.
Football rules - Do strange things happen that violate the rules? For example, I found situations earlier tonight where a touchdown would get scored as a safety, or a kickoff wouldn't happen after a touchdown if the touchdown happened at the end of the 1st quarter.
Complete "dumbness" - Right now the AI is rudimentary, so it doesn't play very smart football, but it should at least make an effort to not do truly dumb things like punt from easy field goal range.
Assorted display "glitchiness" - Things like the play by play nor reporting a first down even when one is earned, or the football displaying to the left of the goalposts when the play-by-play reports the kick is wide right, etc.
(Note: For testing purposes, there is only one offensive and one defensive formation... that is why the teams always seem to be setting up the same play after play.)
Thanks for your help!
--Chris
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by celamantia]
happy
Ok, kickoff was kicked to the 1, and he ran it back to the 6. I will just say that it is incredibly rare that someone runs it back that short, im not saying its impossible, but you may want to check your numbers...
2nd down, a running play that loses NINE and a saftey occurs. This game is already looking very unrealistic imo.
Every pass play appears to be a "pitch" play, at least for StL... not a single handoff yet. The guy has gained 14+ yards on 3 out of 4 of the last pitch plays, which also seems like the parameters are wrong.
Extra point kick blocked. Wtf @ this game.
2nd and 17 with 3:32 left, fake handoff... I dont think people play action on a 2nd and 17.
I have now seen two completions for 20+ yards, each of which had zero yards after the catch, which also seems unreasonable.
I dont like the fact that when it says "the pass is complete" the ball stays there, and when it says its incomplete it moves back, because its sort of like a spoiler. Like, before i read the line, the ball has told me what happened.
4th and 3, they go for it, pass to a guy on the 1 yard line... also still seen no YAC. Also, when they are on the 33 yard line, when it says "pass to the 33 yard line" you should say "screen pass to the 33 yard line"
Ok, 1st play of the 2nd quarter, pass play inside the 1 (already rare), and a sack for the 2nd saftey of the game >_<
kickoff into the endzone, returned to the 12. 2nd very short kickoff return.
I think you give too much information. No one cares that the hold is good for a field goal attempt, tell us when it isnt good, but we can just assume the hold is good.
1:20 left in the half, they are at the 40 yard line blowing all their timeouts, and go for it on 4th down. Not realistic AI. Then StL gets the ball back and calls a million running plays with less than a minute left.
Most teams only spend their timeouts once they are a little closer to the endzone or when the time is low enough that the other team doesnt have an opportunity to score. Also the last timeout is usually saved to get the field goal team onto the field (i hope it takes extra time for team changes)... and they run the time out on themselves without getting a field goal.
also maybe when you say that the people are lining up, say "no huddle" as part of it, if there is no huddle, but it should limit the team to a set number of plays or something.
another 11 yard loss running play. I would guess that your numbers on total yards and yards per carry is pretty consistant, but you are having far too many big gains and big losses. Too much variance, running is a lot more consistant than passing.
people go for it on 4th and 1 a lot. not what most pro teams do, but i assume its a manager pref.
there have been a blunch of HUGE kickoff returns too...
the 4th quarter is listing the total score.
5 minutes down, down by 2 scores, looked to be more than 50% running plays.
1 minute left, StL gets the ball back, up by 2 scores, I understand you dont just down the ball here because the other team has two timeouts, but this would be standard run up the middle 2 times for no gain, and down the ball on 3rd down if enough time had been taken up.
Then the lone wolves get the ball back.... annnnddddd they run the ball :/
also, I dont know how you plan to do this, but I would suggest each "game" being a 5 minute increment of a quarter. That means that dynasty leagues would have one quarter played each game. That gives people time to mess with their settings if they wish, and it leaves you with and it leaves you with 192 games, which makes it somewhat consistant with the baseball season lengths.
I think ideally you have the "standard preferences" for each situation, but you can have manager prefs "just for this game" so that if you want to tinker against that particular opponent, you can do it without screwing up your original manager prefs.
I cant cancel dynasty vision. I was going to look at the stats. I think the lone wolves had about 5 sacks all by the same guy... seems unrealistic.
So...yup, hope that helped. Ill leave others to do the other ones.
May 28, 2010 at 05:42PM View BBCode
ok, ill do game 1.Ok, kickoff was kicked to the 1, and he ran it back to the 6. I will just say that it is incredibly rare that someone runs it back that short, im not saying its impossible, but you may want to check your numbers...
2nd down, a running play that loses NINE and a saftey occurs. This game is already looking very unrealistic imo.
Every pass play appears to be a "pitch" play, at least for StL... not a single handoff yet. The guy has gained 14+ yards on 3 out of 4 of the last pitch plays, which also seems like the parameters are wrong.
Extra point kick blocked. Wtf @ this game.
2nd and 17 with 3:32 left, fake handoff... I dont think people play action on a 2nd and 17.
I have now seen two completions for 20+ yards, each of which had zero yards after the catch, which also seems unreasonable.
I dont like the fact that when it says "the pass is complete" the ball stays there, and when it says its incomplete it moves back, because its sort of like a spoiler. Like, before i read the line, the ball has told me what happened.
4th and 3, they go for it, pass to a guy on the 1 yard line... also still seen no YAC. Also, when they are on the 33 yard line, when it says "pass to the 33 yard line" you should say "screen pass to the 33 yard line"
Ok, 1st play of the 2nd quarter, pass play inside the 1 (already rare), and a sack for the 2nd saftey of the game >_<
kickoff into the endzone, returned to the 12. 2nd very short kickoff return.
I think you give too much information. No one cares that the hold is good for a field goal attempt, tell us when it isnt good, but we can just assume the hold is good.
1:20 left in the half, they are at the 40 yard line blowing all their timeouts, and go for it on 4th down. Not realistic AI. Then StL gets the ball back and calls a million running plays with less than a minute left.
Most teams only spend their timeouts once they are a little closer to the endzone or when the time is low enough that the other team doesnt have an opportunity to score. Also the last timeout is usually saved to get the field goal team onto the field (i hope it takes extra time for team changes)... and they run the time out on themselves without getting a field goal.
also maybe when you say that the people are lining up, say "no huddle" as part of it, if there is no huddle, but it should limit the team to a set number of plays or something.
another 11 yard loss running play. I would guess that your numbers on total yards and yards per carry is pretty consistant, but you are having far too many big gains and big losses. Too much variance, running is a lot more consistant than passing.
people go for it on 4th and 1 a lot. not what most pro teams do, but i assume its a manager pref.
there have been a blunch of HUGE kickoff returns too...
the 4th quarter is listing the total score.
5 minutes down, down by 2 scores, looked to be more than 50% running plays.
1 minute left, StL gets the ball back, up by 2 scores, I understand you dont just down the ball here because the other team has two timeouts, but this would be standard run up the middle 2 times for no gain, and down the ball on 3rd down if enough time had been taken up.
Then the lone wolves get the ball back.... annnnddddd they run the ball :/
also, I dont know how you plan to do this, but I would suggest each "game" being a 5 minute increment of a quarter. That means that dynasty leagues would have one quarter played each game. That gives people time to mess with their settings if they wish, and it leaves you with and it leaves you with 192 games, which makes it somewhat consistant with the baseball season lengths.
I think ideally you have the "standard preferences" for each situation, but you can have manager prefs "just for this game" so that if you want to tinker against that particular opponent, you can do it without screwing up your original manager prefs.
I cant cancel dynasty vision. I was going to look at the stats. I think the lone wolves had about 5 sacks all by the same guy... seems unrealistic.
So...yup, hope that helped. Ill leave others to do the other ones.
ashuran9
May 28, 2010 at 06:04PM View BBCode
I believe too much time is used between plays. 45 to 50 seconds between plays seems quite high to me.
celamantia
For testing purposes, there are only 3 pass plays and 2 run plays in the game and only a single defensive play, so you are going to see a lot of repetition. Limiting the number of plays makes testing a lot easier.
The block code is new. It should happen rarely, a couple of times a season. I need to keep an eye on this to see if it's just small sample size or if the blocks are happening too often.
Yards after the catch is what I was working on last night and is currently broken, so there is no yards after the catch on any pass yet.
This won't happen when YAC is fixed.
Good point... thanks!
Sounds like there is a problem on the returns... could be very bad luck but the code didn't used to do this.
My plan is to eventually make this configurable, but in this case you are probably right.
I had planned to do this before I put the code up this week, I just missed it.
That has to be a bug in the code, and I think I know where it is. I've been staring so long at the technical aspects that I'm starting to miss some obvious things... *sigh*
This is already fixed. It was an odd bug that only occurred when the 2nd or 4th quarter started with a kickoff.
Good point. It is looking at how many timeouts the other team has but if there's no room to down it, it goes on its merry way without looking at alternative ways to burn clock. I thought I had fixed this once, but I may have broken it again.
This is theoretically possible. Right now it runs 1 quarter at a time.
Excellent idea.
This is rtemporary... I had to rip out the stats to get games to load at all. I think I have that problem almost solved though.
It did, very much... thank you for looking at it!
--Chris
May 28, 2010 at 06:22PM View BBCode
A lot of these criticisms are related to AI issues... as noted, the current AI is not bright, it is mostly in place to test the tecnical aspects of moving the game forward, so I am going to skip the comments that fall into that categoryOriginally posted by happy
Every pass play appears to be a "pitch" play, at least for StL... not a single handoff yet. The guy has gained 14+ yards on 3 out of 4 of the last pitch plays, which also seems like the parameters are wrong.
For testing purposes, there are only 3 pass plays and 2 run plays in the game and only a single defensive play, so you are going to see a lot of repetition. Limiting the number of plays makes testing a lot easier.
Extra point kick blocked. Wtf @ this game.
The block code is new. It should happen rarely, a couple of times a season. I need to keep an eye on this to see if it's just small sample size or if the blocks are happening too often.
I have now seen two completions for 20+ yards, each of which had zero yards after the catch, which also seems unreasonable.
Yards after the catch is what I was working on last night and is currently broken, so there is no yards after the catch on any pass yet.
I dont like the fact that when it says "the pass is complete" the ball stays there, and when it says its incomplete it moves back, because its sort of like a spoiler. Like, before i read the line, the ball has told me what happened.
4th and 3, they go for it, pass to a guy on the 1 yard line... also still seen no YAC.
This won't happen when YAC is fixed.
Also, when they are on the 33 yard line, when it says "pass to the 33 yard line" you should say "screen pass to the 33 yard line"
Good point... thanks!
kickoff into the endzone, returned to the 12. 2nd very short kickoff return.
Sounds like there is a problem on the returns... could be very bad luck but the code didn't used to do this.
I think you give too much information. No one cares that the hold is good for a field goal attempt, tell us when it isnt good, but we can just assume the hold is good.
My plan is to eventually make this configurable, but in this case you are probably right.
1:20 left in the half, they are at the 40 yard line blowing all their timeouts, and go for it on 4th down. Not realistic AI. Then StL gets the ball back and calls a million running plays with less than a minute left.
Most teams only spend their timeouts once they are a little closer to the endzone or when the time is low enough that the other team doesnt have an opportunity to score. Also the last timeout is usually saved to get the field goal team onto the field (i hope it takes extra time for team changes)... and they run the time out on themselves without getting a field goal.
also maybe when you say that the people are lining up, say "no huddle" as part of it, if there is no huddle, but it should limit the team to a set number of plays or something.
I had planned to do this before I put the code up this week, I just missed it.
another 11 yard loss running play. I would guess that your numbers on total yards and yards per carry is pretty consistant, but you are having far too many big gains and big losses. Too much variance, running is a lot more consistant than passing.
That has to be a bug in the code, and I think I know where it is. I've been staring so long at the technical aspects that I'm starting to miss some obvious things... *sigh*
the 4th quarter is listing the total score.
This is already fixed. It was an odd bug that only occurred when the 2nd or 4th quarter started with a kickoff.
1 minute left, StL gets the ball back, up by 2 scores, I understand you dont just down the ball here because the other team has two timeouts, but this would be standard run up the middle 2 times for no gain, and down the ball on 3rd down if enough time had been taken up.
Good point. It is looking at how many timeouts the other team has but if there's no room to down it, it goes on its merry way without looking at alternative ways to burn clock. I thought I had fixed this once, but I may have broken it again.
also, I dont know how you plan to do this, but I would suggest each "game" being a 5 minute increment of a quarter. That means that dynasty leagues would have one quarter played each game. That gives people time to mess with their settings if they wish, and it leaves you with and it leaves you with 192 games, which makes it somewhat consistant with the baseball season lengths.
This is theoretically possible. Right now it runs 1 quarter at a time.
I think ideally you have the "standard preferences" for each situation, but you can have manager prefs "just for this game" so that if you want to tinker against that particular opponent, you can do it without screwing up your original manager prefs.
Excellent idea.
I cant cancel dynasty vision. I was going to look at the stats. I think the lone wolves had about 5 sacks all by the same guy... seems unrealistic.
This is rtemporary... I had to rip out the stats to get games to load at all. I think I have that problem almost solved though.
So...yup, hope that helped. Ill leave others to do the other ones.
It did, very much... thank you for looking at it!
--Chris
celamantia
It takes 30 to 40 seconds between plays in normal situations and 5-10 seconds in "hurry-up" situations. The plays themselves may be taking too long though.
Thanks!
--Chris
May 28, 2010 at 06:26PM View BBCode
Originally posted by ashuran9
I believe too much time is used between plays. 45 to 50 seconds between plays seems quite high to me.
It takes 30 to 40 seconds between plays in normal situations and 5-10 seconds in "hurry-up" situations. The plays themselves may be taking too long though.
Thanks!
--Chris
happy
In pro football there is a significant increase in running plays when a team has a lead, and a significant increase in passing plays when a team is behind. Also the team that is ahead would almost always go to the very last second of the clock before running the play when they are ahead. I would guess that the team that is behind does not have a significant decrease in time until they go to hurry up offense.
May 28, 2010 at 10:16PM View BBCode
I would guess 30-40 is standard. 20ish in huddle, 10 to do the play.In pro football there is a significant increase in running plays when a team has a lead, and a significant increase in passing plays when a team is behind. Also the team that is ahead would almost always go to the very last second of the clock before running the play when they are ahead. I would guess that the team that is behind does not have a significant decrease in time until they go to hurry up offense.
tworoosters
Also 2 safeties in the same game ?
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by tworoosters]
May 28, 2010 at 10:34PM View BBCode
Yeah there's a bunch of 45 second+ plays, you just don't see that often.Also 2 safeties in the same game ?
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by tworoosters]
tworoosters
There is an incomplete pass play which takes 45 seconds off the clock at the 10:14 mark of the 1st quarter.
The average NFL game runs around 125 plays from scrimmage, not counting punts and field goal attempts . I could have missed a bit but it looked like less than 100 were run in this game once again reinforcing that plays are taking too long.
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by tworoosters]
General Observations
May 28, 2010 at 10:41PM View BBCode
LA versus Atlanta game, 1st punt is 32 yards with a hang time of 4.42 seconds and it's returned 10 yards, 2nd punt is 48 yards with 4.38 hang time and a fair catch is called. Logically a short punt with a long hang time would be well covered whereas a long punt with a shorter hang time would leave room for a return.There is an incomplete pass play which takes 45 seconds off the clock at the 10:14 mark of the 1st quarter.
The average NFL game runs around 125 plays from scrimmage, not counting punts and field goal attempts . I could have missed a bit but it looked like less than 100 were run in this game once again reinforcing that plays are taking too long.
[Edited on 5-28-2010 by tworoosters]
bpearly69
St. Louis Arizona game- 11:35 they hand it off 3rd and 5, 2 yard gain, it reads the next play as 4th and 4
On the 2nd St. Louis drive, the touchdown drive- it says pitches, well is there any way to, when it says runs up to the left, to show the ball toward the left? Or will it always just go up the middle like that? Also if it says runs up to the left, it seems it'd make more sense to say, pitches to Gene Green, runs to left, runs to the right, runs up the middle, not sure how basic the explanations will be just think it looks more realistic to say something like "runs to the left, cuts back and goes up the middle for 14 yards" although these are all pitch plays so far so those usually go to the outside, but wondering if a guy will actually make cuts on the plays or jukes, stiff arms, etc. and if it'd be explained, for example, Pitch to Gene Green, runs to the left, cuts back runs up the middle for 17 yards, breaks tackles and run 45 yards for touchdown, is that how it will be set up or will it just kind of be, use your imagination type of thing?
I don't mind it saying the Hold is good unless it messes with something.
just answered my own question, saw a broken tackle a few plays later, just making observations as the games go. The time thing looks alright, seems maybe a few seconds too long, but you gotta count for when a play ends and the clock is still running, huddling back up, breaking the huddle, then finally calling the play so it's probably alright.
Notice something on the scoreboard it tells you how much time on game clock, now is there a play clock because i don't see one? but then above St. Louis team is says 12:46? Is that the time of the day?
I'm sure there will be penalties obviously like delay of games which I'm sure would be tied into QB execution.
on the punt returns or any returns, think it'd be nice to have, returns ball to STl35 for a 45 yard gain or something like that
these all go in order to quarter, now, St. Louis when they score, im sure this will be fixed when you add YAC but usually you hit a guy with a 43 yard pass to the 1 hes gonna land in the endzone, trip in the endzone, tackled in the endzone,
the kickoff before the 2 minute warning, took 18 seconds off the clock, the clock doesn't run until the guy catches the ball correct? it took 18 seconds to gain what? 9 yards on that play? the clock stops after a kickoff return because it wasn't a running play or anything or completed pass.
im sure the end of the half is an AI issue, because that didn't make much sense, the Lone wolves go for it in St. Louis territory, then usually St. Louis, you wouldn't be running the ball, you'd be passing to conserve time if your going for a score right? seems they burned timeouts and that cost them a score, and the fact they didn't just kick the field goal when they had the shot, am also guessing there will be qb spikes, which im not sure how they didn't get to the line in time when the play started with 27 seconds
on a 2nd and 7 play late in the third, runner gains 7 yards but no measurement?
field goal to the end quarter after the running play, short loss with 14 seconds left, it only took 12 seconds to get the field goal team on the field and kick the field goal?
as Happy and rooster pointed out some of the returns seem a bit off
late in the 4th after a 15 yard gain it only took 12 seconds before next play was being called, that mean it was a no huddle just has not been added in yet?
Happy pointed out all the AI issues pretty well, thats game 1, it looks pretty cool overall, think it's getting close, just think a few more tweaks and what not
also, with the short passes, if it's a screen pass then have it called that way but not every short pass is a screen pass, could say like, short pass to the right, but if it's a screen call it that way IMO
2nd game end of the game, clock is running out and NY doesnt take a time out to stop it? thats another AI problem
Last thing, maybe I missed it but I have not seen a turnover yet? I might have missed it but those are my general thoughts so far on the games, seems to be the same issues, doesn't seem to be too many issues with the concerns you expressed at the top Chris, the complete dumbness was the major issue IMO
May 29, 2010 at 12:23AM View BBCode
just some quick notes- game 1St. Louis Arizona game- 11:35 they hand it off 3rd and 5, 2 yard gain, it reads the next play as 4th and 4
On the 2nd St. Louis drive, the touchdown drive- it says pitches, well is there any way to, when it says runs up to the left, to show the ball toward the left? Or will it always just go up the middle like that? Also if it says runs up to the left, it seems it'd make more sense to say, pitches to Gene Green, runs to left, runs to the right, runs up the middle, not sure how basic the explanations will be just think it looks more realistic to say something like "runs to the left, cuts back and goes up the middle for 14 yards" although these are all pitch plays so far so those usually go to the outside, but wondering if a guy will actually make cuts on the plays or jukes, stiff arms, etc. and if it'd be explained, for example, Pitch to Gene Green, runs to the left, cuts back runs up the middle for 17 yards, breaks tackles and run 45 yards for touchdown, is that how it will be set up or will it just kind of be, use your imagination type of thing?
I don't mind it saying the Hold is good unless it messes with something.
just answered my own question, saw a broken tackle a few plays later, just making observations as the games go. The time thing looks alright, seems maybe a few seconds too long, but you gotta count for when a play ends and the clock is still running, huddling back up, breaking the huddle, then finally calling the play so it's probably alright.
Notice something on the scoreboard it tells you how much time on game clock, now is there a play clock because i don't see one? but then above St. Louis team is says 12:46? Is that the time of the day?
I'm sure there will be penalties obviously like delay of games which I'm sure would be tied into QB execution.
on the punt returns or any returns, think it'd be nice to have, returns ball to STl35 for a 45 yard gain or something like that
these all go in order to quarter, now, St. Louis when they score, im sure this will be fixed when you add YAC but usually you hit a guy with a 43 yard pass to the 1 hes gonna land in the endzone, trip in the endzone, tackled in the endzone,
the kickoff before the 2 minute warning, took 18 seconds off the clock, the clock doesn't run until the guy catches the ball correct? it took 18 seconds to gain what? 9 yards on that play? the clock stops after a kickoff return because it wasn't a running play or anything or completed pass.
im sure the end of the half is an AI issue, because that didn't make much sense, the Lone wolves go for it in St. Louis territory, then usually St. Louis, you wouldn't be running the ball, you'd be passing to conserve time if your going for a score right? seems they burned timeouts and that cost them a score, and the fact they didn't just kick the field goal when they had the shot, am also guessing there will be qb spikes, which im not sure how they didn't get to the line in time when the play started with 27 seconds
on a 2nd and 7 play late in the third, runner gains 7 yards but no measurement?
field goal to the end quarter after the running play, short loss with 14 seconds left, it only took 12 seconds to get the field goal team on the field and kick the field goal?
as Happy and rooster pointed out some of the returns seem a bit off
late in the 4th after a 15 yard gain it only took 12 seconds before next play was being called, that mean it was a no huddle just has not been added in yet?
Happy pointed out all the AI issues pretty well, thats game 1, it looks pretty cool overall, think it's getting close, just think a few more tweaks and what not
also, with the short passes, if it's a screen pass then have it called that way but not every short pass is a screen pass, could say like, short pass to the right, but if it's a screen call it that way IMO
2nd game end of the game, clock is running out and NY doesnt take a time out to stop it? thats another AI problem
Last thing, maybe I missed it but I have not seen a turnover yet? I might have missed it but those are my general thoughts so far on the games, seems to be the same issues, doesn't seem to be too many issues with the concerns you expressed at the top Chris, the complete dumbness was the major issue IMO
happy
May 29, 2010 at 05:26AM View BBCode
Cel -- Id like to say for the future that you would probably be best served by telling people to "call" specific dynasty visions since it would be better if we didnt do double work (looks like pearly did the same one as me)
happy
May 29, 2010 at 05:27AM View BBCode
oh, "hang time" is totally another "who cares?" type of thing.
celamantia
That was very unusual... I think it's a side effect of the problem that is causing lost yards on run plays to be doubled, so once I fix that the excess safeties will go away.
May 29, 2010 at 04:25PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
Also 2 safeties in the same game ?
That was very unusual... I think it's a side effect of the problem that is causing lost yards on run plays to be doubled, so once I fix that the excess safeties will go away.
celamantia
Right now there is always a small chance for every possible result on a punt. The code then modifies those chances based on hang time, offensive player speed, defensive player abilities, blocking, etc. So over time the percentages should be right but perhaps I need to eliminate fair catch on longer punts, even if the percentage chance is small.
May 29, 2010 at 04:29PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
LA versus Atlanta game, 1st punt is 32 yards with a hang time of 4.42 seconds and it's returned 10 yards, 2nd punt is 48 yards with 4.38 hang time and a fair catch is called. Logically a short punt with a long hang time would be well covered whereas a long punt with a shorter hang time would leave room for a return.
Right now there is always a small chance for every possible result on a punt. The code then modifies those chances based on hang time, offensive player speed, defensive player abilities, blocking, etc. So over time the percentages should be right but perhaps I need to eliminate fair catch on longer punts, even if the percentage chance is small.
celamantia
This will happen from time to time, as yardages are measured in tenths of a yard but are rounded to whole yards for display. So, for example, 3rd and 5 could really have been 3rd and 5.1, he gained 1.6 yards to show a 2 yard gain, leaving the ball at 4th and 3.5 which shows as 4th and 4.
It will... right now I am having trouble with the huge amounts of data that are required to drive Dynasty Vision so the lateral position of the ball is not shown yet. The actual player formations are supposed to visible; those big empty sidebars are supposed to show your whole roster indicating who is on the field. But I need to solve the long load time with the data I have first, and I have a plan that should do just that. :)
This comes back to the same issue... having two extra lines of explanation on each play doubles the amount of data to pass, and as we are seeing some people already think there is too much. Now the "too much" problem is solved by the fact that each line has an internal "detail level" setting so the individual viewer can tailor the display to his or her tastes, but I need to solve the large dataset issue first.
There is no play clock. Yes, the central clock is Time of Day I track both because injuries and fatigue (neither of which are modeled yet) recover based on the Time of Day clock rather than the game clock. Each game starts at noon.
I was starting on penalties when I uploaded the games but it wasn't ready yet so I just left it out for now.
Before the 2-minute warning, time runs from the moment of the kick. After the 2-minute warning, time runs from the time of the catch. The clock stops after a kickoff return in the last 2 minutes of the half or 5 minutes of the game. At least that is how it's supposed to work. I'll double check the data.
The ball needs to be within 2/10 of a yard of a first down (2/3rd the length of the ball, about 7 inches) to trigger a measurement.
This was a no-huddle, but yes, it should take into account the time to switch teams, I need to fix that.
Yes. I just haven't decided how to indicate a no-huddle or a hurried huddle. I don't really want to add a "The offense does not huddle" line... maybe a symbol or color coding?
The majority of AI is meant to come from coach preferences which aren't built yet, which is why the AI is so dumb right.
Right now the losing team will call time-outs on defense if they are behind by 7 or less. New York was down by 8, so they did not try to stop the clock as they would need two possessions to catch up. This will be a coach preference setting.
May 29, 2010 at 05:36PM View BBCode
Originally posted by bpearly69
just some quick notes- game 1
St. Louis Arizona game- 11:35 they hand it off 3rd and 5, 2 yard gain, it reads the next play as 4th and 4
This will happen from time to time, as yardages are measured in tenths of a yard but are rounded to whole yards for display. So, for example, 3rd and 5 could really have been 3rd and 5.1, he gained 1.6 yards to show a 2 yard gain, leaving the ball at 4th and 3.5 which shows as 4th and 4.
On the 2nd St. Louis drive, the touchdown drive- it says pitches, well is there any way to, when it says runs up to the left, to show the ball toward the left? Or will it always just go up the middle like that?
It will... right now I am having trouble with the huge amounts of data that are required to drive Dynasty Vision so the lateral position of the ball is not shown yet. The actual player formations are supposed to visible; those big empty sidebars are supposed to show your whole roster indicating who is on the field. But I need to solve the long load time with the data I have first, and I have a plan that should do just that. :)
Also if it says runs up to the left, it seems it'd make more sense to say, pitches to Gene Green, runs to left, runs to the right, runs up the middle, not sure how basic the explanations will be just think it looks more realistic to say something like "runs to the left, cuts back and goes up the middle for 14 yards" although these are all pitch plays so far so those usually go to the outside, but wondering if a guy will actually make cuts on the plays or jukes, stiff arms, etc. and if it'd be explained, for example, Pitch to Gene Green, runs to the left, cuts back runs up the middle for 17 yards, breaks tackles and run 45 yards for touchdown, is that how it will be set up or will it just kind of be, use your imagination type of thing?
This comes back to the same issue... having two extra lines of explanation on each play doubles the amount of data to pass, and as we are seeing some people already think there is too much. Now the "too much" problem is solved by the fact that each line has an internal "detail level" setting so the individual viewer can tailor the display to his or her tastes, but I need to solve the large dataset issue first.
Notice something on the scoreboard it tells you how much time on game clock, now is there a play clock because i don't see one? but then above St. Louis team is says 12:46? Is that the time of the day?
There is no play clock. Yes, the central clock is Time of Day I track both because injuries and fatigue (neither of which are modeled yet) recover based on the Time of Day clock rather than the game clock. Each game starts at noon.
I'm sure there will be penalties obviously like delay of games which I'm sure would be tied into QB execution.
I was starting on penalties when I uploaded the games but it wasn't ready yet so I just left it out for now.
the kickoff before the 2 minute warning, took 18 seconds off the clock, the clock doesn't run until the guy catches the ball correct? it took 18 seconds to gain what? 9 yards on that play? the clock stops after a kickoff return because it wasn't a running play or anything or completed pass.
Before the 2-minute warning, time runs from the moment of the kick. After the 2-minute warning, time runs from the time of the catch. The clock stops after a kickoff return in the last 2 minutes of the half or 5 minutes of the game. At least that is how it's supposed to work. I'll double check the data.
on a 2nd and 7 play late in the third, runner gains 7 yards but no measurement?
The ball needs to be within 2/10 of a yard of a first down (2/3rd the length of the ball, about 7 inches) to trigger a measurement.
field goal to the end quarter after the running play, short loss with 14 seconds left, it only took 12 seconds to get the field goal team on the field and kick the field goal?
This was a no-huddle, but yes, it should take into account the time to switch teams, I need to fix that.
late in the 4th after a 15 yard gain it only took 12 seconds before next play was being called, that mean it was a no huddle just has not been added in yet?
Yes. I just haven't decided how to indicate a no-huddle or a hurried huddle. I don't really want to add a "The offense does not huddle" line... maybe a symbol or color coding?
Happy pointed out all the AI issues pretty well, thats game 1, it looks pretty cool overall, think it's getting close, just think a few more tweaks and what not
The majority of AI is meant to come from coach preferences which aren't built yet, which is why the AI is so dumb right.
2nd game end of the game, clock is running out and NY doesnt take a time out to stop it? thats another AI problem
Right now the losing team will call time-outs on defense if they are behind by 7 or less. New York was down by 8, so they did not try to stop the clock as they would need two possessions to catch up. This will be a coach preference setting.
bpearly69
May 29, 2010 at 05:46PM View BBCode
well there will be, going for 2 instead of just the extra point so im thinking thats what you mean by coaching pref
celamantia
[Edited on 5-29-2010 by celamantia]
May 29, 2010 at 05:53PM View BBCode
I don't have going for two set up yet... it may not be in the first version. What I mean is you'll have a "call timeout on defense when losing by x or fewer points when x seconds are left" setting.[Edited on 5-29-2010 by celamantia]
happy
And yes, the punter cares about hangtime, but still, not something we need to see in the display.
May 29, 2010 at 07:11PM View BBCode
seems like going for two would be easy. You just set it up on the line and play it like a 4th and goal from the AI standpoint. shouldnt even need much extra code. just minimal amount to cause the AI to decide to go for it in the 1st place.And yes, the punter cares about hangtime, but still, not something we need to see in the display.
happy
May 29, 2010 at 07:12PM View BBCode
also, try uploading dynasty vision one quarter at a time, it may not cause as much trouble with the loading times. the 2nd/3rd/4th quarter could just have a tiny bit of code that tells it what the score was at the end of the previous quarter. And I guess maybe the stats, i dunno.
bpearly69
May 30, 2010 at 12:38AM View BBCode
Onside kicks im guessing will also be included at some point as well, i also agree with happy, id try 1 at a time if it makes a difference
Jughead
May 30, 2010 at 01:46AM View BBCode
I'm sorry to butt in, but if it is relevant to the play on the field, I want to see hang time on punts, especially if the only difference is one line of text.
celamantia
May 30, 2010 at 07:28AM View BBCode
Hang time on punts affects the return. Punters with higher accuracy can create more hang time than the physics simulation would normally generate.
celamantia
- There was a bug where the QB's drop back was being doubled, causing so many passes at or behind the line of scrimmage and big losses on runs, and increasing the chance of safeties.
- The blocked extra point was due to a problem where kickers weren't adjusting the kicking angle on shorter FG/PAT kicks properly. Blocked extra points are possible, but they should be rare and more likely to occur against kickers with poor accuracy (accuracy is what decides how close the kick is to the target angle).
- The base yardage on kickoff returns was being ignored due to a bug.
- I've adjusted fair catch chances to be lower or noxexistent on kicks with shorter hangtimes.
- I've reduced the huddle time in normal situations, leaving it at the higher value for time-eating situations.
- Time should be eaten more intelligently.
- Pass completion percentages in foul weather have been reduced.
- YAC is added, although it doesn't look right, I need to run more analysis on it.
- The excessive "going for it on 4th down" bug has been corrected.
- Slow load time for the page has been fixed.
- Insufficient time for the field goal unit to come out in hurry-up situations has been fixed.
- Play time was being counted twice on most plays; that has been fixed and play times further adjusted.
June 01, 2010 at 05:02AM View BBCode
Thank you all for your input! Here is what I found after going through the code:- There was a bug where the QB's drop back was being doubled, causing so many passes at or behind the line of scrimmage and big losses on runs, and increasing the chance of safeties.
- The blocked extra point was due to a problem where kickers weren't adjusting the kicking angle on shorter FG/PAT kicks properly. Blocked extra points are possible, but they should be rare and more likely to occur against kickers with poor accuracy (accuracy is what decides how close the kick is to the target angle).
- The base yardage on kickoff returns was being ignored due to a bug.
- I've adjusted fair catch chances to be lower or noxexistent on kicks with shorter hangtimes.
- I've reduced the huddle time in normal situations, leaving it at the higher value for time-eating situations.
- Time should be eaten more intelligently.
- Pass completion percentages in foul weather have been reduced.
- YAC is added, although it doesn't look right, I need to run more analysis on it.
- The excessive "going for it on 4th down" bug has been corrected.
- Slow load time for the page has been fixed.
- Insufficient time for the field goal unit to come out in hurry-up situations has been fixed.
- Play time was being counted twice on most plays; that has been fixed and play times further adjusted.
CCondardo
~Corey
June 01, 2010 at 02:21PM View BBCode
For the record, I had a nice long list of things and I x'd out all my tabs. I was sad when I did it so I never got back to the report. Most of what I saw was just little things.~Corey
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