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tworoosters
If this was a sim salary league I'd think this was a straight salary dump, as it is I'm not sure what it is except maybe a straight salary dump, except Youkilis' contract is done at the end of this year anyway.
Stewart is 25 and has not established himself yet, despite Cherington's claims that he's starter material the fact is he's basically a two pitch guy, fastball/slider, who throws mid 90s when he relieves and low 90s when he starts, his upside is a 4th starter but really he's probably best suited as an bridge reliever and Lillibridge is 29 in September and has a career OPS of .641 in five seasons as a utility guy.
June 25, 2012 at 12:26AM View BBCode
He's going to a team where Kenny Williams is the GM, if that's not madness I don't know what is.If this was a sim salary league I'd think this was a straight salary dump, as it is I'm not sure what it is except maybe a straight salary dump, except Youkilis' contract is done at the end of this year anyway.
Stewart is 25 and has not established himself yet, despite Cherington's claims that he's starter material the fact is he's basically a two pitch guy, fastball/slider, who throws mid 90s when he relieves and low 90s when he starts, his upside is a 4th starter but really he's probably best suited as an bridge reliever and Lillibridge is 29 in September and has a career OPS of .641 in five seasons as a utility guy.
dirtdevil
June 25, 2012 at 02:03AM View BBCode
i don't think it's a salary dump so much as a message deal. it's an "if i can deal youk i can deal anyone so get your collective heads out of your collective behinds, and win some baseball games instead of bitching about the manager or you'll be next" deal.
tworoosters
The bottom line is the RedSox are not very good right now, and this deal certainly doesn't make them better.
June 25, 2012 at 02:43AM View BBCode
Yeah maybe, it's a low risk deal for Chicago as they are really just taking on salary and moving some parts that weren't going to contribute this year anyway.The bottom line is the RedSox are not very good right now, and this deal certainly doesn't make them better.
Yankees102
June 25, 2012 at 04:02AM View BBCode
Well for the sox, they get rid of Youkilis which allows them to play Middlebrooks more, they get pitch mediocre pitching (no change there), and a utility guy. The other sox get a new 3B, which has gotta be an upgrade over Orlando Hudson and whatever they used in the hot corner this year. Better end of the deal...I guess white sox?
tm4559
June 25, 2012 at 06:59PM View BBCode
yukelis can hit, of course its a good deal for them. and the red sox are paying some of the salary. its a big win for the white sox. since the red sox wanted to dump, the white sox were more than happy to open the gate. why not? a team that is trying to contend can always use a hitter that can hit.
jjmarsh17
It's a low risk move for the white sox with a chance for some reasonable upside so a good deal. But it is addition by subtraction for the sox. Youk was miserable and had rubbed plenty of people the wrong way the past 2 years. I'll always appreciate him for what he did and for always playing hard but it was definitely time to move on.
June 27, 2012 at 12:10AM View BBCode
He could hit I'm not sure we can safely assume he still can. He hasn'treally in a season and a half now. He was more trouble than he was worth especially since he stopped hitting.It's a low risk move for the white sox with a chance for some reasonable upside so a good deal. But it is addition by subtraction for the sox. Youk was miserable and had rubbed plenty of people the wrong way the past 2 years. I'll always appreciate him for what he did and for always playing hard but it was definitely time to move on.
tm4559
July 05, 2012 at 02:44PM View BBCode
he can hit, and he can hit better than that middlebrooks character. true story.
jjmarsh17
Pitchers will certainly start making adjustments to middlebrooks soon so I expect Him to struggle at some point in the second half. But watching him everyday it was obvious he was ready for the job full time.
One dynasty dollar says Youk gets hurt and middlebrooks has a more productive 2nd half.
July 05, 2012 at 06:20PM View BBCode
It will be Interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out. Let's also not forget how injury prone Youk is. He has a very hard time staying on the field when he plays 3b everyday. all that said I'm surprised the sox didn't get a little more considering they ate most of the salary. Maybe they are really high on Stewart cause lillbridge looks horrible. he was considered a top prospect a few years ago.Pitchers will certainly start making adjustments to middlebrooks soon so I expect Him to struggle at some point in the second half. But watching him everyday it was obvious he was ready for the job full time.
One dynasty dollar says Youk gets hurt and middlebrooks has a more productive 2nd half.
tm4559
July 05, 2012 at 06:37PM View BBCode
oh even if youkeliss can hit, it doesn't mean its a bad trade for the red sox. the red sox don't really need him, he isn't much of a fit for them anymore. the white sox need him, so, there you go. what middelbrooks does is not even germane to what the white sox get out of youkeliss. the two things are not related in the slightest, i apologize for relating them.
tm4559
July 05, 2012 at 07:01PM View BBCode
(is it a good trade in the sense it will help the red sox make the playoffs? no. no trade is going to do that. they suck too much.)
jjmarsh17
July 05, 2012 at 07:50PM View BBCode
true dat. more specifically their chicken loving SP and previous gm suck too much.
dirtdevil
July 05, 2012 at 08:28PM View BBCode
oh, how soon long-suffering angst turns to entitlement. fickleness, thy name is red sox nation.
jjmarsh17
people here want their moneys worth and the $190 million team that is on the field doesn't not warrant high ticket prices, $14 hot dogs and $18 beers. .
July 05, 2012 at 08:56PM View BBCode
meh, more like objective evaluation. theo had a great run as gm no one in Boston will ever take that away from him (although I think he gets a little too much credit for the 1st championship, a lot of that team was duquettes). but no one can argue, well I suppose they could try, his last 2/3 seasons were a complete unmitigated disaster. he's tried to blame ownership now he's in chicago, but that is bs, he was the one who had a hard on for lackey and crawford. he almost ran the team completely into the ground. he is a great gm, a great talent evaluator and drafter, but he doesnt get a free pass just because they won, his track record of signing free agents is horrible. clement, rentareck, lackey, crawford, lugo the list goes on and on.people here want their moneys worth and the $190 million team that is on the field doesn't not warrant high ticket prices, $14 hot dogs and $18 beers. .
tworoosters
Really ? I'm pretty sure that winning is the primary job responsibility of a sports team's General Manager.
I would think that bringing two Championships to a franchise that hadn't won one in 84 years, and had only been to 4 World Series during that span, pretty much calls for canonization let alone a "free pass".
During Epstein's nine years as Boston GM they made the playoffs six times and won less than 90 games twice, it's kind of hard to argue with that success, unless your name is Cashman, and actually Theo won more titles than Cashman did while Theo was in Boston.
July 05, 2012 at 09:30PM View BBCode
Originally posted by jjmarsh17
he is a great gm, a great talent evaluator and drafter, but he doesnt get a free pass just because they won
Really ? I'm pretty sure that winning is the primary job responsibility of a sports team's General Manager.
I would think that bringing two Championships to a franchise that hadn't won one in 84 years, and had only been to 4 World Series during that span, pretty much calls for canonization let alone a "free pass".
During Epstein's nine years as Boston GM they made the playoffs six times and won less than 90 games twice, it's kind of hard to argue with that success, unless your name is Cashman, and actually Theo won more titles than Cashman did while Theo was in Boston.
jjmarsh17
the guy who got the true raw deal in boston is tito.
July 05, 2012 at 10:41PM View BBCode
yup. like I said, great run, but there should never be free passes for gm's with top 3 payrolls. It's just too much of an advantage. Also, I'm not saying I think he should have been fired, and he wasn't, he left for a promotion, but I'm saying he should be criticized severely for what he left behind. And trying to blame ownership for forcing you to spend hundreds of millions of their dollars is a low blow and makes him look worse, in my book anyway.the guy who got the true raw deal in boston is tito.
jjmarsh17
Also I'm not sure how trying to evaluate theo's tenure as gm = fickle. Having the blinders on, wearing my red sox pajamas to bed and kissing theo's feet forever would be silly. it's not like I'm no longer supporting the team, I still watch most games and I'm even going to one on Saturday.
I hope the sox sneak into the 2nd wild card but I'm not holding my breath, injuries have played a part, but the biggest reason they are struggling is because they are paying guys like crawford, lackey and jenks something like $40mil this season to contribute nothing, and that is on theo.
July 06, 2012 at 12:13PM View BBCode
it's an interesting question. how long of a free pass does winning a championship grant you? Is it different for players, gms, owners? I'm obviously in the camp that feels it isn't indefinite. It's a question that's been raised quite a bit in Boston the last 10 years (because we win so much :spin:). There are some interesting examples in others sports, jerry krause with the bulls, joe montana getting traded are two that come to mind.Also I'm not sure how trying to evaluate theo's tenure as gm = fickle. Having the blinders on, wearing my red sox pajamas to bed and kissing theo's feet forever would be silly. it's not like I'm no longer supporting the team, I still watch most games and I'm even going to one on Saturday.
I hope the sox sneak into the 2nd wild card but I'm not holding my breath, injuries have played a part, but the biggest reason they are struggling is because they are paying guys like crawford, lackey and jenks something like $40mil this season to contribute nothing, and that is on theo.
dirtdevil
it should probably also be pointed out that when crawford and lackey were both highly pursued free agents when they were signed and both earned theo some degree of plaudits in boston at the time. not every move works out. that doesn't make theo a moron.
July 06, 2012 at 01:00PM View BBCode
i think it depends. for the boston red sox though, who had probably the most famous streak of not winning in north american sports history, i'd say one championship should earn a guy an awful lot of forgiveness rope. two should make him an eternal saint. not in boston though.it should probably also be pointed out that when crawford and lackey were both highly pursued free agents when they were signed and both earned theo some degree of plaudits in boston at the time. not every move works out. that doesn't make theo a moron.
jjmarsh17
his track record of signing high priced free agents is poor
renteria
lackey
crawford
drew
dice k
cameron
jenks
lugo
drew (haha he would argue this one to the death)
clement
that is my criticism, crawford and lackey in particular because they have handcuffed the team for the next 3-5 years, along with recently saying he was pressured into signing lackey and crawford.
if he walked into fenway park tonight he'd get a long standing ovation, and he would deserve it. Guess who got the longest/loudest ovation opening day when they brought back all the former managers and players? tito. he was fired, and managed the team during a historic collapse in september. but boston fans are smart enough to appreciate what he did. theo would get similar treatment, but he has a weakness, and that is evaluating and signing free agents. I'm not going to sweep that under the rug cause he won 2 championships.
July 06, 2012 at 01:46PM View BBCode
who called him a moron?his track record of signing high priced free agents is poor
renteria
lackey
crawford
drew
dice k
cameron
jenks
lugo
drew (haha he would argue this one to the death)
clement
that is my criticism, crawford and lackey in particular because they have handcuffed the team for the next 3-5 years, along with recently saying he was pressured into signing lackey and crawford.
if he walked into fenway park tonight he'd get a long standing ovation, and he would deserve it. Guess who got the longest/loudest ovation opening day when they brought back all the former managers and players? tito. he was fired, and managed the team during a historic collapse in september. but boston fans are smart enough to appreciate what he did. theo would get similar treatment, but he has a weakness, and that is evaluating and signing free agents. I'm not going to sweep that under the rug cause he won 2 championships.
tm4559
July 06, 2012 at 06:08PM View BBCode
ironic isn't it? all they had to give for billy bean was yukelis, instead, they got theo, JD Drew, John Lacky, millions on millions for crawford, paid yukelis off and traded him for junk, and missed out on all them awesomes walk drawers from college ball that cannot actually hit, and they could have been the Moneyball sequel. its hard to tell who came on top really. certainly the movie going public missed out. and the Sox inflicted the turdsome dustin pedroierr on the world.
jjmarsh17
I for one blame John Henry. I think brad, I mean Billy's creep -o- Meter started flashing code red after that meeting in Fenway.
July 06, 2012 at 06:58PM View BBCode
HahaI for one blame John Henry. I think brad, I mean Billy's creep -o- Meter started flashing code red after that meeting in Fenway.
dirtdevil
July 06, 2012 at 07:25PM View BBCode
the idea that someone can be a great judge of talent when drafting and trading but not when signing free agents is pretty hilarious, if you think about it.
tm4559
July 06, 2012 at 07:35PM View BBCode
(the idea that the guy who put the team together should be hated, and the guy who filled out the lineup card should be credited with the team's sucess is also kind of cute. i realize tito throwed some awesomes batting practice and hit some screaming fungoes and occasionaly called for a sacrifice bunt and said atta boy and all that stuff, but wow.)