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tworoosters
Early in the year here in the BHL we have some great examples of why wins don't really measure a pitcher's success.
[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?playername=nobody&mode=stats&id=12383454]John Matuszek[/url] currently 2nd in the league in ERA and 5th in WHIP with 1 win through 7 starts.[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?playername=nobody&mode=stats&id=12409102]Jack Boehmer[/url] is 7th in ERA and 15th in WHIP with 2 wins to his credit and while my own [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=12332489&statsorimps=last10]Bennett Holiday[/url] is certainly respectable with 4 wins in 8 starts consider that in his 4 non decisions he has a WHIP of 1.06, 5th in the league, and an ERA of 2.32 which would be 2nd in the league .
I can remember years ago Tyson commenting about how if you found someone who had never watched baseball and explained it to them and then told them about the concept of a "winning pitcher" and how much import people placed on that stat they would think you were crazy.
[Edited on 9-20-2017 by tworoosters]
Why wins are a terrible measure of pitching success
September 20, 2017 at 10:14PM View BBCode
If you are a real student of the game you already know that wins are a terrible way to measure a pitcher's success, there are just too many elements about getting the decision that are out of a pitcher's control.Early in the year here in the BHL we have some great examples of why wins don't really measure a pitcher's success.
[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?playername=nobody&mode=stats&id=12383454]John Matuszek[/url] currently 2nd in the league in ERA and 5th in WHIP with 1 win through 7 starts.[url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?playername=nobody&mode=stats&id=12409102]Jack Boehmer[/url] is 7th in ERA and 15th in WHIP with 2 wins to his credit and while my own [url=http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=12332489&statsorimps=last10]Bennett Holiday[/url] is certainly respectable with 4 wins in 8 starts consider that in his 4 non decisions he has a WHIP of 1.06, 5th in the league, and an ERA of 2.32 which would be 2nd in the league .
I can remember years ago Tyson commenting about how if you found someone who had never watched baseball and explained it to them and then told them about the concept of a "winning pitcher" and how much import people placed on that stat they would think you were crazy.
[Edited on 9-20-2017 by tworoosters]
4EverGreen
September 20, 2017 at 10:48PM View BBCode
I always believed WHIP was a true measuring stick of a pitchers "personal" performance (and even that can be challenged, e.g., if you have a poor or great fielding team behind you). Wins obviously matter but I'd take pitchers with solid WHIPs any day over a "winning" pitcher with a high WHIP.
4EverGreen
September 21, 2017 at 02:16AM View BBCode
[url=http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player=nobody&mode=stats&id=12259571]Case in point[/url].
Cheezweezel
September 21, 2017 at 12:20PM View BBCode
Importance of the win stat in SimD is virtually nonexistent. In the real game though I would argue that it has some value because real pitchers can make in-game decisions that are team oriented rather than stat oriented (intentional walks, for instance, helping the team win the game but driving up the pitchers WHIP).
Hamilton2
Quality Starts is a much better stat than Wins for measuring starter effectiveness and the overall rate stats (ERA, WHIP, K:BB ratio, FIP, etc.) are far more useful metrics than counting stats (innings, K's, W's, etc.) in evaluating pitcher performance.
September 21, 2017 at 06:51PM View BBCode
I sort of see your point, Cheez, but there are only like 1 intentional walk per every 2 games throughout MLB. That's not going to make a difference over the course of a season.Quality Starts is a much better stat than Wins for measuring starter effectiveness and the overall rate stats (ERA, WHIP, K:BB ratio, FIP, etc.) are far more useful metrics than counting stats (innings, K's, W's, etc.) in evaluating pitcher performance.
spiderrtp
Wins are a 'team' stat, and it's darn near impossible to realistically go by wins for a pitcher to evaluate them. WHIP then ERA are my first things that I check on pitchers (in the SIM and in real life) to take a look at how good a pitcher is. Even though even that can be deceiving...
September 21, 2017 at 07:15PM View BBCode
6 IP's and 3 ER's (4.50 ERA) is hardly worth what I would call a 'quality start' but that's another debate...Wins are a 'team' stat, and it's darn near impossible to realistically go by wins for a pitcher to evaluate them. WHIP then ERA are my first things that I check on pitchers (in the SIM and in real life) to take a look at how good a pitcher is. Even though even that can be deceiving...
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