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arodtoo
NFL OFFSEASON WINNERS!
February 23, 2005 at 06:19AM View BBCode
I think #1 already has to be the Seattle Seahawks, had the 3 most important members of their offense up for unrestricted free agency, and were able to sign them all to contracts, 2 of them to long term and one to tender sheet. They still have massive ammounts of cap and should be able to bring back teh remaining key free agents like lucas, but this off season saw them sign one of the top tackles in the game and the top RB, and keep their QB who knows the system, WOW, just WOW!
FuriousGiorge
February 23, 2005 at 05:14PM View BBCode
They re-signed three key members of an underachieving 9-7 team that allowed more points than it gave up. Hooray for one more year at least of mediocrity!
Benne
February 23, 2005 at 06:07PM View BBCode
I didn't think they'd be able to keep all three guys, this is great.
FuriousGiorge
"Seattle Seahawks - Because sometimes, just making the playoffs ought to be enough".
[Edited on 2-23-2005 by FuriousGiorge]
February 23, 2005 at 06:13PM View BBCode
So do you think Sean Alexander will simply coldcock Hasselbeck BEFORE the snap, allowing him to take the snap himself, or will he wait until Hasselbeck gets the ball and then rip it out of his hands so that he can win the rushing title and up his paycheck next year?"Seattle Seahawks - Because sometimes, just making the playoffs ought to be enough".
[Edited on 2-23-2005 by FuriousGiorge]
lvnwrth
February 23, 2005 at 07:06PM View BBCode
Signing three key players from a mediocre team might not seem like a big deal. But, when you play in the ulitimately lame NFC West, mediocrity can dominate.
skierdude44
February 24, 2005 at 10:23PM View BBCode
Isn't it alittle soon to proclaim them the winners of the offseason? I mean the free agency period hasn't started yet and we still have the draft coming up. The offseason has barely begun.
arodtoo
February 25, 2005 at 04:06AM View BBCode
Yeah, but no one had as much to lose as the Seahawks, unless the raiders go and get moss then trade for manning and aquire Ahman green
sfgiants4
February 25, 2005 at 08:20AM View BBCode
yah the off seson has barely begun, after the actual free agency signign period starts and the draft is over then we can announce who won, but you guys care too much about the seahawks they couldn't beat the rams in teh playoffs come on now. And arodtoo how the hell to you have such a high rating, not that i really care.
skierdude44
That may be true. But how valueable are those guys really if all they could do is lead the Seahawks to a 9-7 season? And all they did is basically stay the same while some other teams (like maybe Dallas since they have a TON of cap room) can drastically improve.
February 25, 2005 at 11:32AM View BBCode
Originally posted by arodtoo
Yeah, but no one had as much to lose as the Seahawks, unless the raiders go and get moss then trade for manning and aquire Ahman green
That may be true. But how valueable are those guys really if all they could do is lead the Seahawks to a 9-7 season? And all they did is basically stay the same while some other teams (like maybe Dallas since they have a TON of cap room) can drastically improve.
arodtoo
The Nfl offseason rarely has any drastic trades, and the free agent crop was extremly cut short by the franchise tags, and unless a ton of greta players are released through salary cap reasons, then there won't be that much that many changes, yeah something could change, but currently and i bet at the end the Seahawks will come out as off season winners, especially if they resign Lucas(which they have teh room to do, which is whats amazing) and draft a MLB through the draft
sfgiants4: i got my rating from playing for a long while, beloning to 2 dynastyl league teams, and 2 private league teams, not from binge posting...in fact this i think is my first topic in sports area and i didn't post teh random "." in off topic during that time, i posted a bit but usually meaningful posts
February 25, 2005 at 03:04PM View BBCode
yeah they underacheived last year, remember this is a team with a lot of young talent on defense, and that many many many sources predicted for the super bowl, they underacheived horribly but you ask how can they be valuable? well Shaun Alexander is a top 3 running back, finished 1 yard behind the rushing leader is still pretty young, has demonstrated ability to do it year after year as well as scoring tds(20 this year) and Walter Jones is one of the best tackles in the league, no training camp for the last 3 years but pro-bowl every year and ranked by sports weekly as the 3rd best in the league, and hasselbeck is 1 season removed from pro-bowl season, he isn't as important to other teams but if you remove the qb form teh system it means you need to go train another qb and that can usually trash a season so it was very important for the Hawks to resign him....The Nfl offseason rarely has any drastic trades, and the free agent crop was extremly cut short by the franchise tags, and unless a ton of greta players are released through salary cap reasons, then there won't be that much that many changes, yeah something could change, but currently and i bet at the end the Seahawks will come out as off season winners, especially if they resign Lucas(which they have teh room to do, which is whats amazing) and draft a MLB through the draft
sfgiants4: i got my rating from playing for a long while, beloning to 2 dynastyl league teams, and 2 private league teams, not from binge posting...in fact this i think is my first topic in sports area and i didn't post teh random "." in off topic during that time, i posted a bit but usually meaningful posts
skierdude44
It's not like the Seahawks were this powerhouse team that just had one bad season last year either. They have been mediocre for years. They lost almost every road game in the 2003 season. And while they were picked as Super Bowl team by many they have not shown any idication that they were ready to obtain that elite status. They were the popular "dark horse" pick at the time but really were pretty overrated.
February 25, 2005 at 03:45PM View BBCode
My point is that all those three were able to do is lead the Hawks to a mediocre season. Sure Alexander has had some very nice stats over the past few seasons but it takes more than just individual stats to build a good team (see New England Patriots). And I recall his primary concern being winning the rushing title instead of winning a must win game to get them into the playoffs. Walter Jones is a good tackle but there are plenty of good tackles out there. Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Kyle Turley, John Tait, etc. are all similar to Jones. And right now it doesn't matter who their QB is because their receivers can't catch. The only receiver that they have that can catch is 40+ year old Jerry Rice who might not come back.It's not like the Seahawks were this powerhouse team that just had one bad season last year either. They have been mediocre for years. They lost almost every road game in the 2003 season. And while they were picked as Super Bowl team by many they have not shown any idication that they were ready to obtain that elite status. They were the popular "dark horse" pick at the time but really were pretty overrated.
Benne
Yes the Seahawks have been classic underachievers but they are getting the puzzle pieces in place and are probably an elite pass rusher away from getting over that hump.
February 25, 2005 at 06:52PM View BBCode
The Seahawks offense is not too much of a concern to me. It was their defense that lost games last year. They blew last minute-leads to the Rams and Cowboys and barely held off the Dolphins and the Falcons practice squad. But we still have a lot of good young talent on defense (Trufant, Hamlin, Lucas). Our major problems last year were injuries (Wistrom, Taylor, Brown, Tubbs) resulting in creating NO pressure on the D-line. Our MLB position is a problem and I agree with arodtoo in drafting one first.Yes the Seahawks have been classic underachievers but they are getting the puzzle pieces in place and are probably an elite pass rusher away from getting over that hump.
FuriousGiorge
This past year was their year. Don't blame injuries, that's baby talk. Everyone has injuries, good teams have the depth to get over them. Maybe the Seahawks are still in position to make a run at the NFC, but this year's team is going to look very similar to last year's team. At the beginning of the year people kept saying the Seahawks were a sleeping giant and capable of playing much better. Then they never did, and they backed their fat lazy asses into a division title. This team is exactly as good as it showed it was last year: 9-7, with the capability to win a single playoff game, and they are going to bring back the same friggin' team.
February 25, 2005 at 08:51PM View BBCode
(sniff sniff) I smell the foul stench of wishful thinking.This past year was their year. Don't blame injuries, that's baby talk. Everyone has injuries, good teams have the depth to get over them. Maybe the Seahawks are still in position to make a run at the NFC, but this year's team is going to look very similar to last year's team. At the beginning of the year people kept saying the Seahawks were a sleeping giant and capable of playing much better. Then they never did, and they backed their fat lazy asses into a division title. This team is exactly as good as it showed it was last year: 9-7, with the capability to win a single playoff game, and they are going to bring back the same friggin' team.
I_<3_Turtle_Lobos
[Edited on 2-25-2005 by I_<3_Turtle_Lobos]
February 25, 2005 at 10:13PM View BBCode
Turtle is who they need to put them over the hump![Edited on 2-25-2005 by I_<3_Turtle_Lobos]
Benne
February 25, 2005 at 10:41PM View BBCode
[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3421238]Well, so much for having a veteran leader on the receiving corps.[/url]
arodtoo
and teams can be hurt by injuries, any team not named the patriots doesn't have the ability to overcome a lot of injuries/suspensions. I mean the falcons failed with just one player missing season before last....especially if the injuries hurt your weak spot
February 25, 2005 at 11:17PM View BBCode
The reason they team bombed was mainly on the defensive side...they are very young on that side with emerging talents like trufant and tubbs, they are all going to improve and the defense will improve, and odds are they will draft a defensive player even strengthing their defense, plus they will have winstrom for full season, plus Brown will be back, plus they missed robinson and his drops on offense for a few games due to suspensionand teams can be hurt by injuries, any team not named the patriots doesn't have the ability to overcome a lot of injuries/suspensions. I mean the falcons failed with just one player missing season before last....especially if the injuries hurt your weak spot
skierdude44
Exactly. Injuries are no excuse. You can't say "Well, we had some injuries so last season doesn't really count." And if you want to talk about injuries how about Philly? They suffered the motherload of injuries when TO went down and still managed to get to the SuperBowl without him. Sure you can't be very deep at every position but you do need to have some depth and the Seahawks didn't.
And I don't know what Koren Robinson has to do with anything. All he ever does is drop balls so they should have played BETTER when he wasn't in the lineup because that meant more passes for the only receiver they had that could catch, Jerry Rice.
And aside from depth that team had one other major issue and that was discipline. I saw them play a few times on TV and they made a lot of stupid mistakes. Against the Jets Shaun Alexander fumbled on the goal line WITHOUT EVEN BEING HIT. He just lost his grip. And then he wonders why he doesn't get the ball on the goal line in a crucial spot in a must win game. Darrell Jackson and Koren Robinson are in a constant state of confusion. They drop passes, run the wrong routes, don't look back for the ball when they aren't the primary receiver on the play. Its horrible. Jackson played terrible in the first half of the playoff game against St. Louis.
And as far as free agency goes there are some top players out there to be had. Mushin Muhammad, who lead the league in receiving yards, and Plaxico Burress are free agents for teams looking for a good wideout. Ty Law is a free agent. There will be many other good veterans who will become cap casualties. Their are also some big trade talks going on. Obviously Moss to Oakland and then the Jets and Redskins are discussing swapping Santana Moss for Lavernus Coles. And the offseason is just beginning. So what you said about their not being any good free agents or significant trades in the offseason is wrong too. Which goes back to the original point about how it is too soon to announce the Seahawks as the "Champions of the Offseason."
February 26, 2005 at 01:58PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
(sniff sniff) I smell the foul stench of wishful thinking.
This past year was their year. Don't blame injuries, that's baby talk. Everyone has injuries, good teams have the depth to get over them. Maybe the Seahawks are still in position to make a run at the NFC, but this year's team is going to look very similar to last year's team. At the beginning of the year people kept saying the Seahawks were a sleeping giant and capable of playing much better. Then they never did, and they backed their fat lazy asses into a division title. This team is exactly as good as it showed it was last year: 9-7, with the capability to win a single playoff game, and they are going to bring back the same friggin' team.
Exactly. Injuries are no excuse. You can't say "Well, we had some injuries so last season doesn't really count." And if you want to talk about injuries how about Philly? They suffered the motherload of injuries when TO went down and still managed to get to the SuperBowl without him. Sure you can't be very deep at every position but you do need to have some depth and the Seahawks didn't.
And I don't know what Koren Robinson has to do with anything. All he ever does is drop balls so they should have played BETTER when he wasn't in the lineup because that meant more passes for the only receiver they had that could catch, Jerry Rice.
And aside from depth that team had one other major issue and that was discipline. I saw them play a few times on TV and they made a lot of stupid mistakes. Against the Jets Shaun Alexander fumbled on the goal line WITHOUT EVEN BEING HIT. He just lost his grip. And then he wonders why he doesn't get the ball on the goal line in a crucial spot in a must win game. Darrell Jackson and Koren Robinson are in a constant state of confusion. They drop passes, run the wrong routes, don't look back for the ball when they aren't the primary receiver on the play. Its horrible. Jackson played terrible in the first half of the playoff game against St. Louis.
And as far as free agency goes there are some top players out there to be had. Mushin Muhammad, who lead the league in receiving yards, and Plaxico Burress are free agents for teams looking for a good wideout. Ty Law is a free agent. There will be many other good veterans who will become cap casualties. Their are also some big trade talks going on. Obviously Moss to Oakland and then the Jets and Redskins are discussing swapping Santana Moss for Lavernus Coles. And the offseason is just beginning. So what you said about their not being any good free agents or significant trades in the offseason is wrong too. Which goes back to the original point about how it is too soon to announce the Seahawks as the "Champions of the Offseason."
arodtoo
The Coles/Santanna trade is a wash, Oakland gets a lot better with Moss, but then again they would have gained some good talent with the #7 pick and when you add up their aquisition of moss and signbing of porter it still doesn't do a ton for them, they would have improved themselves a lot more by using the 7th pick to shore up their 30th ranked defense and hopefuly they areable to trade woodsen, or else they can't do the moss trade. Okay, now muhammed was signed by the Bears, not going to make teh much of a difference, so that leaves Burress and Law, law won't make a massive impact, burress will have a impact but not enough to change many teams to teh degree that the Hawks would have suffered losing a tackle that ranks only behind pace, Ogden....without him running game and offense takes major hits, as he didn't allow a single sack and constantly draws double teams, and losing a top 3 running back who knows how to get into the end zone, and a QB who knows the system....i guess we will rest this topic till after draft
February 26, 2005 at 05:49PM View BBCode
And as far as free agency goes there are some top players out there to be had. Mushin Muhammad, who lead the league in receiving yards, and Plaxico Burress are free agents for teams looking for a good wideout. Ty Law is a free agent. There will be many other good veterans who will become cap casualties. Their are also some big trade talks going on. Obviously Moss to Oakland and then the Jets and Redskins are discussing swapping Santana Moss for Lavernus Coles.
The Coles/Santanna trade is a wash, Oakland gets a lot better with Moss, but then again they would have gained some good talent with the #7 pick and when you add up their aquisition of moss and signbing of porter it still doesn't do a ton for them, they would have improved themselves a lot more by using the 7th pick to shore up their 30th ranked defense and hopefuly they areable to trade woodsen, or else they can't do the moss trade. Okay, now muhammed was signed by the Bears, not going to make teh much of a difference, so that leaves Burress and Law, law won't make a massive impact, burress will have a impact but not enough to change many teams to teh degree that the Hawks would have suffered losing a tackle that ranks only behind pace, Ogden....without him running game and offense takes major hits, as he didn't allow a single sack and constantly draws double teams, and losing a top 3 running back who knows how to get into the end zone, and a QB who knows the system....i guess we will rest this topic till after draft
skierdude44
February 26, 2005 at 09:12PM View BBCode
My point about those names is that they are impact players. Any receiving corps is greatly improved with Muhammad, Burress, or Derrick Mason (I forgot him originally). Both Coles and S. Moss are pretty good (and very fast) receivers. Ty Law is one of the top 5 corners in the league. With the new illegal contact rules a top corner is even more valuble. But that is beside the point. My point is that there are good players available during the offseason which disproves what you said earlier about there not being any drastic trades (I think Moss to Oakland counts as a drastic trade and if Woodson is moved that would count as another drastic trade) and there are some good free agents out there. We will have to wait until after the free agency period and the draft to find out if you were right or not.
Cubsfan13
February 26, 2005 at 11:30PM View BBCode
Muhammed is going to Chicago, apparently. They are a qb away from not sucking now.
INDIANSFORLIFE
Better re-sign Lucas...
February 27, 2005 at 08:32PM View BBCode
Seattle- Problem=Ray Rhodes Schemes (especially 4th quarters) not the players.Better re-sign Lucas...
Benne
If the young guys don't mature and improve soon, the Seahawks will turn into the Chiefs/Vikings/Colts and be forced to outscore opponents.
February 28, 2005 at 10:22PM View BBCode
Yeah, I agree that the playcalling is not that great and the defense just lacks discipline and leadership in general. They have no aggressiveness. Trufant and Lucas could be shutdown corners eventually and they get lots of turnovers but half the time they just look lost out there, Hamlin gets fooled easily by the qb, and the d-line gives the qb just enough pressure to order a pizza and read "War and Peace" while waiting for the secondary to break down, which they did at the worst possible times.If the young guys don't mature and improve soon, the Seahawks will turn into the Chiefs/Vikings/Colts and be forced to outscore opponents.
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