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happy
K
runners on 1st and 3rd 1 out and he gets a double play
K with bases loaded
K
This has got to be the worst all star performance of any player ever.
Anyone feel bad for Uggla?
July 16, 2008 at 05:29AM View BBCode
His dad makes this huge deal about Uggla playing at Yankees stadium, then Uggla goes in there, gets 3 errors (All star record), screws up a double play (no error, but he took his time to make sure not to get one otherwise it wouldve been a double play), and for his at bats:K
runners on 1st and 3rd 1 out and he gets a double play
K with bases loaded
K
This has got to be the worst all star performance of any player ever.
FuriousGiorge
So...if the game hadn't ended there, and Kazmir had passed his pitch count limit, what would have happened next?
July 16, 2008 at 05:42AM View BBCode
Whatever. He has no neck.So...if the game hadn't ended there, and Kazmir had passed his pitch count limit, what would have happened next?
Cubsfan13
July 16, 2008 at 05:53AM View formatted
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They would have drawn straws to see which position player had to pitch. Maybe.
FuriousGiorge
July 16, 2008 at 05:54AM View BBCode
I don't see what else they could have done, unless Selig was willing to step in (again) and declare it a draw, but that would have been a lot more problematic this time around. I assume Francona hadn't emptied his bench, so someone would have been available to be the sacrificial lamb. Can you imagine that spectacle?
Cubsfan13
I wish it would have happened. Alright, not really, it was getting kind of boring watching the above average players from small market teams (and one from Boston) play.
July 16, 2008 at 06:10AM View BBCode
I'm pretty sure Francona had emptied the bench- ridiculously early, if I remember correctly. So Kazmir would have had to play right field, or some censored .I wish it would have happened. Alright, not really, it was getting kind of boring watching the above average players from small market teams (and one from Boston) play.
Smocko
July 16, 2008 at 07:03AM View BBCode
I'm thinking that when Fox and Selig made their disastrous "This Time It Counts" deal, he signed a provision saying he could absolutely never call a tie game again.
Benne
Yeah, Francona emptied his bench and bullpen, which left only Kazmir, who just threw 100 pitches two days ago. I would've loved to see the game go further, if only to know what "solution" Selig would've pulled out of his ass.
July 16, 2008 at 07:11AM View BBCode
It was a weird game--boring, but compelling at the same time.Yeah, Francona emptied his bench and bullpen, which left only Kazmir, who just threw 100 pitches two days ago. I would've loved to see the game go further, if only to know what "solution" Selig would've pulled out of his ass.
ME
July 16, 2008 at 02:24PM View BBCode
The All Star Game determining homefield for the World Series is marginally better than the previous method (alternating between the AL and NL).
barterer2002
July 16, 2008 at 02:40PM View BBCode
I feel more sorry for Brad Lidge who Clint Hurdle totally screwed over by having him throw by most accounts close to 100 warm up pitches over 7 innings in the pen before coming in.
FuriousGiorge
How is it better? It's different, certainly. But better? That seems like a stretch.
July 16, 2008 at 03:08PM View BBCode
Originally posted by ME
The All Star Game determining homefield for the World Series is marginally better than the previous method (alternating between the AL and NL).
How is it better? It's different, certainly. But better? That seems like a stretch.
ME
July 16, 2008 at 03:38PM View BBCode
Marginally better, it does make the All Star Game a little more exciting while being almost as arbitrary a way of deciding homefield. It's not nearly as good as giving it to the team with the best record or league with the better interleague record, just a little better than the old system.
shep1582
we could have the better overall records be the determining factor as well.
both scenarios, IMO, are better than letting an exhibition game determine home field.
idiotic, but they keep drawing record numbers, so they will not change. I watched none of the game last night. who won?
July 16, 2008 at 03:40PM View BBCode
let's see, we have interleague play that could determine home field in the series, whether by league record vs each other, or the individual TEAMS in the series interleague records.we could have the better overall records be the determining factor as well.
both scenarios, IMO, are better than letting an exhibition game determine home field.
idiotic, but they keep drawing record numbers, so they will not change. I watched none of the game last night. who won?
FuriousGiorge
The All-Star game already had plenty of conflicts of interest inherent in it, and adding the home field thing just multiplied those. It's only the good will of the people involved that keeps the entire thing from degenerating into a free-for-all. There is no perfect solution to the problem of home field advantage, but making it dependent on the outcome of this exhibition game is one of the more ridiculous ones, certainly more ridiculous than simply alternating.
July 16, 2008 at 03:55PM View BBCode
Originally posted by ME
Marginally better, it does make the All Star Game a little more exciting while being almost as arbitrary a way of deciding homefield. It's not nearly as good as giving it to the team with the best record or league with the better interleague record, just a little better than the old system.
The All-Star game already had plenty of conflicts of interest inherent in it, and adding the home field thing just multiplied those. It's only the good will of the people involved that keeps the entire thing from degenerating into a free-for-all. There is no perfect solution to the problem of home field advantage, but making it dependent on the outcome of this exhibition game is one of the more ridiculous ones, certainly more ridiculous than simply alternating.
shep1582
amen and amen
July 16, 2008 at 03:59PM View BBCode
There is no perfect solution to the problem of home field advantage, but making it dependent on the outcome of this exhibition game is one of the more ridiculous ones, certainly more ridiculous than simply alternating.
amen and amen
ME
There seems more than enough goodwill to prevent any problems. Francona asked the Devil Rays how much he was allowed to use Kazmir and tried to avoid using him as much as he could. Same with Hurdle and Webb. The players were certainly not dogging it.
July 16, 2008 at 04:44PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
Originally posted by ME
Marginally better, it does make the All Star Game a little more exciting while being almost as arbitrary a way of deciding homefield. It's not nearly as good as giving it to the team with the best record or league with the better interleague record, just a little better than the old system.
The All-Star game already had plenty of conflicts of interest inherent in it, and adding the home field thing just multiplied those. It's only the good will of the people involved that keeps the entire thing from degenerating into a free-for-all. There is no perfect solution to the problem of home field advantage, but making it dependent on the outcome of this exhibition game is one of the more ridiculous ones, certainly more ridiculous than simply alternating.
There seems more than enough goodwill to prevent any problems. Francona asked the Devil Rays how much he was allowed to use Kazmir and tried to avoid using him as much as he could. Same with Hurdle and Webb. The players were certainly not dogging it.
happy
I bet selig was shitting his pants watching the bottom of the 15th. The clear solution is to allow the managers to bring pitchers back in who had already pitched. K Rod couldve come in for an inning since he only pitched 1 out, and probably a few of the starters wouldve offered to come back in.
July 16, 2008 at 04:45PM View BBCode
Its better than alternating. The entire thing isnt moments away from degenerating into a free for all. Everything is fine. You're so mellodramatic.I bet selig was shitting his pants watching the bottom of the 15th. The clear solution is to allow the managers to bring pitchers back in who had already pitched. K Rod couldve come in for an inning since he only pitched 1 out, and probably a few of the starters wouldve offered to come back in.
FuriousGiorge
It's not just the game that's added layers of conflicts of interest that previously weren't there. If you were a fan of a contender in the National League, for example, why would you vote for good players in the American League? Shouldn't you be voting for the suckiest players on the ballot?
July 16, 2008 at 04:48PM View BBCode
Come on, that's retarded. If the game counts, you can't just start violating baseball rules.It's not just the game that's added layers of conflicts of interest that previously weren't there. If you were a fan of a contender in the National League, for example, why would you vote for good players in the American League? Shouldn't you be voting for the suckiest players on the ballot?
happy
July 16, 2008 at 04:54PM View BBCode
also, nothing wrong with "violating baseball rules." When 12 year olds play, players can come back in after they have been taken out because they want everyone to be able to play in the game. All star game, they want everyone to play in the game too, which is why its under unconventional circumstances where the benches are almost always cleared. It just makes sense to implement a similar rule structure.
FuriousGiorge
I think it is completely realistic to believe that fans may very well vote for the All-Star game based on how it helps their team's chances in the World Series. I don't know if you'll ever see a suck-ass player make the team because of it, but it's a conflict of interest that's been introduced that was never there before. And conflicts of interest, Happy, are bad.
July 16, 2008 at 04:57PM View BBCode
No Happy, it doesn't make sense at all. One of the cardinal rules of professional baseball is that players who have been removed from the game cannot re-enter said game.I think it is completely realistic to believe that fans may very well vote for the All-Star game based on how it helps their team's chances in the World Series. I don't know if you'll ever see a suck-ass player make the team because of it, but it's a conflict of interest that's been introduced that was never there before. And conflicts of interest, Happy, are bad.
shep1582
use interleague play (another abomination) or best record. it's asinine to use the all star game for any type of flash point.
while we are on the subject of abominations, the NL should refuse to play the AL on any field, at any time, until they get rid of the DH. That rule makes the AL a completely different game. It's idiotic, it's adoption was wrong headed, and the MVP award that Ortiz got was a travesty. if you can't play in the field, you do not deserve an MVP.
if only i ruled the world...
July 16, 2008 at 05:04PM View BBCode
all of that is fine, happy. but IT'S AN EXHIBITION, for pete's sake. stop making it count for home field.use interleague play (another abomination) or best record. it's asinine to use the all star game for any type of flash point.
while we are on the subject of abominations, the NL should refuse to play the AL on any field, at any time, until they get rid of the DH. That rule makes the AL a completely different game. It's idiotic, it's adoption was wrong headed, and the MVP award that Ortiz got was a travesty. if you can't play in the field, you do not deserve an MVP.
if only i ruled the world...
FuriousGiorge
July 16, 2008 at 05:08PM View BBCode
Yes, the MVP that David Ortiz most definitely won. (Anti-DH people are the Flat Earthers of baseball society)
barterer2002
The simple solution to the problem the managers had yesterday is to expand the rosters. It seems silly that we say, OK, get all the players in the game but also play it to win. It screws up any and all extra inning events. Take an extra 15 or so players who are designated "extra inning players" who won't get into the game unless there is an emergency or the game goes extra innings. One player for each position and 6 pitchers.
July 16, 2008 at 05:11PM View BBCode
ummm Ortiz didn't win an MVP unless you're talking about he ALCS MVP which usually goes to the best hitter anyway.The simple solution to the problem the managers had yesterday is to expand the rosters. It seems silly that we say, OK, get all the players in the game but also play it to win. It screws up any and all extra inning events. Take an extra 15 or so players who are designated "extra inning players" who won't get into the game unless there is an emergency or the game goes extra innings. One player for each position and 6 pitchers.
FuriousGiorge
July 16, 2008 at 05:13PM View BBCode
The rosters are already enormous. No one wants to expand them by another half.
ME
1B, RF*, SS*, SS, RF, 3B, 1B*, 3B are the positions that have won the AL MVP
since David Ortiz's full season (I asterisked the questionable ones, but no DH was the most robbed in any of those years).
The fan voting hasn't been an issue with crappier players getting on the team because of some desire by the other league's good teams' fans. The selection process has its problems (more so the player voting) but this is a near non-factor.
July 16, 2008 at 05:16PM View BBCode
People still complain about the DH? Is it really that fun to see the pitcher bat and have to watch a few superstar sluggers commit error after error at 1B or LF. There are only 3 or 4 true full-time DHs in the AL today anyways (Thomas, Ortiz, Hafner, with Thome possibly as well) who aren't just DHs because the team has other players at the same position1B, RF*, SS*, SS, RF, 3B, 1B*, 3B are the positions that have won the AL MVP
since David Ortiz's full season (I asterisked the questionable ones, but no DH was the most robbed in any of those years).
The fan voting hasn't been an issue with crappier players getting on the team because of some desire by the other league's good teams' fans. The selection process has its problems (more so the player voting) but this is a near non-factor.
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