 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Beltre and Scutaro for $16.5 million
tworoosters
My favorite Stat head number about Scutaro came from ESPN Insider prior to Marco's "breakout year" in 2009:
"Despite slugging just .356 with seven home runs in 2008, Scutaro tied for second-best in the league in hard-hit balls per swing"
I can just imagine the guys analyzing that:
Stat Guy #1 :"Hey, do you think that one was hard hit ?"
Stat Guy #2 : "Nah, just "fairly hard", can't give him credit for hard hit on that one" .
For those unfamiliar [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/scutama01.shtml]here[/url] are Marco's career numbers.
I actually love Marco because he was a major reason I won my rotisserie league last year. I paid $4 in the 2008 auction and protected him because he qualified at 2B, 3B, SS, MI and Corner but $6.5 million for him and $10 million for Beltre seems a bit of a reach to me.
Beltre and Scutaro for $16.5 million
January 05, 2010 at 04:37AM View BBCode
That's what the RedSox have on the left side of their infield for 2010, should be an interesting season.My favorite Stat head number about Scutaro came from ESPN Insider prior to Marco's "breakout year" in 2009:
"Despite slugging just .356 with seven home runs in 2008, Scutaro tied for second-best in the league in hard-hit balls per swing"
I can just imagine the guys analyzing that:
Stat Guy #1 :"Hey, do you think that one was hard hit ?"
Stat Guy #2 : "Nah, just "fairly hard", can't give him credit for hard hit on that one" .
For those unfamiliar [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/scutama01.shtml]here[/url] are Marco's career numbers.
I actually love Marco because he was a major reason I won my rotisserie league last year. I paid $4 in the 2008 auction and protected him because he qualified at 2B, 3B, SS, MI and Corner but $6.5 million for him and $10 million for Beltre seems a bit of a reach to me.
FuriousGiorge
January 05, 2010 at 04:47AM View BBCode
I'm pretty sure that "leading the league in hard-hit balls per swing" is the baseball equivalent of Tony Romo leading the league in smiling.
shep1582
I agree TR, I can't see paying that for a 33 yr old coming off his career year.
January 05, 2010 at 05:01AM View BBCode
or Jason Campbell leading in "fewest yards per interception return".I agree TR, I can't see paying that for a 33 yr old coming off his career year.
tworoosters
Then toss in $10 million for Beltre and $7.75 million for Mike Cameron along with $27 million for Ortiz and Lowell that's $51 million this season for a lot of question marks.
January 05, 2010 at 05:12AM View BBCode
Scutaro is 34 not 33 with only one season with an OPS above .750, he's a good glove man but the money, $6.5 million, seems a bit crazy.Then toss in $10 million for Beltre and $7.75 million for Mike Cameron along with $27 million for Ortiz and Lowell that's $51 million this season for a lot of question marks.
Admin
Anyway, Beltre's baseball hat barely fit on top of his head, because of all the warm weather gear he had underneath. I wish I could find a picture of it. He didn't exactly look like a gamer that day, or someone who seemed remotely comfortable with the cold weather.
My guess is that didn't show up in the stats either.
Tyson
[Edited on 1-5-2010 by Admin]
January 05, 2010 at 05:17AM View BBCode
My lasting impression of Beltre is from the Indians home opener against the Mariners in 2007. This game was snowed out, but before they called it Beltre committed three errors. This was the series that was snowed out, followed by the Indians playing some home games in Milwaukee during the next series.Anyway, Beltre's baseball hat barely fit on top of his head, because of all the warm weather gear he had underneath. I wish I could find a picture of it. He didn't exactly look like a gamer that day, or someone who seemed remotely comfortable with the cold weather.
My guess is that didn't show up in the stats either.
Tyson
[Edited on 1-5-2010 by Admin]
cubfan531
January 06, 2010 at 02:09AM View BBCode
Well, from my understanding, the Red Sox are actively trying to move Lowell. Unless the speculated trade of Kotchman to the Mariners goes through, then they may stick with him as the backup 3B/1B (to Beltre and Youk).
Jughead
Red Sox fans will find a way to make this annoying.
January 06, 2010 at 03:06AM View BBCode
Saw plenty of Scutaro when he played in Oakland. The best thing about him is, when he is at the plate, one guy yells "Marco!" and then everyone else yells "Scutaro!"Red Sox fans will find a way to make this annoying.
tworoosters
I'm sure they are actively trying to move Lowell but I'm not sure how big the market is for $12.5 million a year 36 year old corner infielders who've missed 40+ games each of the past two years.
January 06, 2010 at 06:53AM View BBCode
Originally posted by cubfan531
Well, from my understanding, the Red Sox are actively trying to move Lowell. Unless the speculated trade of Kotchman to the Mariners goes through, then they may stick with him as the backup 3B/1B (to Beltre and Youk).
I'm sure they are actively trying to move Lowell but I'm not sure how big the market is for $12.5 million a year 36 year old corner infielders who've missed 40+ games each of the past two years.
bpearly69
January 07, 2010 at 10:41PM View BBCode
solid signings, they are preparing for their youth movement in a few years, just look through their farm and you'll see that, solid defensive players, not very long commitment, just hope beltre regains some kind of form
tworoosters
January 07, 2010 at 10:48PM View BBCode
Only a "true believer" could call $10 million for a season of Adrian Beltre and a 490% raise for a 34 year old infielder with one truly good season to his credit as solid signings .
albiez
January 07, 2010 at 11:09PM View BBCode
I don't give a fuck about the Red Sox, and think that ten mil for a year of Beltre is a very good deal for the team. The Mike Lowell thing, that was a little dumb from a cost/likely production standpoint even at the time.
barterer2002
January 07, 2010 at 11:35PM View BBCode
I like Beltre, I was hoping that he'd come to Philadelphia actually. Not for 10Mil but I was expecting in the 6-8 range as reasonable. So I'd say he's a little overpaid based solely on my own expectations. As a player though I think he'll have a great season in Boston. Scuturo though was not good
dirtdevil
January 08, 2010 at 03:06AM View BBCode
i think they overpaid for beltre, but there's also a decent chance he may have a 10 million dollar season in that park. the scutaro thing i don't really get.
albiez
January 08, 2010 at 05:05AM View BBCode
The thing about Beltre is that he's an outstanding third baseman, like on a similar level to younger Scott Rolen. I mean lol these people in their mother's basements with their fielding stats, but really, he is awesome. And in that ballpark, he probably (I'm almost tempted to say "certainly") hit better than Lowell has the past few years, and he will make less than they're paying Lowell. The real problem is that they're still paying Lowell.
tworoosters
Rumour mill has it Beltre turned down 3 years for $24 million from Oakland and Philadelphia, but he's a Boras client so those rumours could just be smoke.
January 08, 2010 at 07:16AM View BBCode
I agree Beltre is a very good defensive 3B and has a chance to have a good offensive year playing half his games in Fenway, it'll be the first time he's ever hit in a real "hitters park", but at $10 million he's still drastically overpaid in my mind.Rumour mill has it Beltre turned down 3 years for $24 million from Oakland and Philadelphia, but he's a Boras client so those rumours could just be smoke.
albiez
Just looking at the Red Sox, last year Mike Lowell cashed checks to the tune of $12.5 million. J.D. Drew made $14 million, Julio Lugo 9.25, and David Ortiz $13 million. Beltre will almost certainly be more valuable this season than Lowell, Lugo, and Ortiz were last year, and not much worse than Drew (I don't have a rabid disgust for J.D. Drew, if you think he is a terrible player than Beltre will be better than him, too, sure).
If we just want to look at semi-relevant players from this year's market, where prices seem to be lower, Jason Bay got $16 million a year from the Mets, and when you factor in defense and position and Bay's new ballpark, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Beltre ends up being as valuable (if not moreso) next season. Tim's favorite guy Figgins got $9 million a year to take over for Beltre in Seattle, and Figgins and Beltre seem to me to provide pretty similar over-all value despite their different skill sets, and the market seems to have largely agreed. But the Red Sox are only on the hook for one year of Beltre.
And that to me is what makes it a great deal rather than just an okay one: so many of these teams get themselves into trouble in the later years of a contract, and despite all their talk a few years ago about fiscal responsibility, the Red Sox have been huge culprits of throwing good money over the long term after aging players who will almost certainly be in decline for the last year(s) of the contract. I mean obviously the best thing for the Red Sox would be to have some cost-controlled awesome player like Evan Longoria, but they don't, they have Jed Lowrie, and he is horrible, so they went out and got a pretty good price for a pretty good player, and the comfort of knowing that he won't be clogging up the books four years down the road.
I don't know why I just wrote so much defending the Adrian Beltre signing, because obviously the Red Sox are the worst and I hope the Rays win next year. But really, when Figgins is getting 4/36 and Bay is getting 4/60 to go play in that Mets park, Beltre at 1/10 seems really quite nice.
And lol Marco Scutaro. I guess that's why I'm standing up for poor Adrian, sobbing to himself on a pile of money as people on the internet throw him in the same boat with Marco.
January 08, 2010 at 07:59AM View BBCode
I thought it seemed like too much for a second or two, but then you look at players' salaries these days and realize that $10 million seems like about the going rate for a player who's proven himself to be solidly above average (which I think Beltre has proven himself at minimum to be, when his testicles aren't ruptured), and actually quite a good deal for a player who can provide real value to a contending club and be a slight tier behind the All-Star level.Just looking at the Red Sox, last year Mike Lowell cashed checks to the tune of $12.5 million. J.D. Drew made $14 million, Julio Lugo 9.25, and David Ortiz $13 million. Beltre will almost certainly be more valuable this season than Lowell, Lugo, and Ortiz were last year, and not much worse than Drew (I don't have a rabid disgust for J.D. Drew, if you think he is a terrible player than Beltre will be better than him, too, sure).
If we just want to look at semi-relevant players from this year's market, where prices seem to be lower, Jason Bay got $16 million a year from the Mets, and when you factor in defense and position and Bay's new ballpark, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Beltre ends up being as valuable (if not moreso) next season. Tim's favorite guy Figgins got $9 million a year to take over for Beltre in Seattle, and Figgins and Beltre seem to me to provide pretty similar over-all value despite their different skill sets, and the market seems to have largely agreed. But the Red Sox are only on the hook for one year of Beltre.
And that to me is what makes it a great deal rather than just an okay one: so many of these teams get themselves into trouble in the later years of a contract, and despite all their talk a few years ago about fiscal responsibility, the Red Sox have been huge culprits of throwing good money over the long term after aging players who will almost certainly be in decline for the last year(s) of the contract. I mean obviously the best thing for the Red Sox would be to have some cost-controlled awesome player like Evan Longoria, but they don't, they have Jed Lowrie, and he is horrible, so they went out and got a pretty good price for a pretty good player, and the comfort of knowing that he won't be clogging up the books four years down the road.
I don't know why I just wrote so much defending the Adrian Beltre signing, because obviously the Red Sox are the worst and I hope the Rays win next year. But really, when Figgins is getting 4/36 and Bay is getting 4/60 to go play in that Mets park, Beltre at 1/10 seems really quite nice.
And lol Marco Scutaro. I guess that's why I'm standing up for poor Adrian, sobbing to himself on a pile of money as people on the internet throw him in the same boat with Marco.
dirtdevil
January 08, 2010 at 01:26PM View BBCode
on that theme, let's not jump all over marco scutaro, either. he's a great super-sub player who finally had a very good year at the right moment. it's not his fault someone gave him a ridiculous amount of money to play a role on a contending team he isn't really suited for.
cubfan531
January 08, 2010 at 01:36PM View BBCode
They'll just move him to the super-sub role when they realize he's an average bat with an above-average glove whose never proven himself on a big market stage.
dirtdevil
January 08, 2010 at 01:48PM View formatted
You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
they probably will. they'll still be paying him 6.5 million to do it though, which seems a tad excessive.
FuriousGiorge
January 08, 2010 at 01:49PM View BBCode
Re: Beltre, it's never the money, it's always the years. If you can get anyone on a 1-year deal, it's probably a good thing.
bpearly69
January 08, 2010 at 10:58PM View BBCode
Joe Mauer a free agent next year right? beltre to a 1 year deal, lowell's contract will be off books, that opens about 22 million, just sayin:) victor to first, youk to third, the sox front office isn't dumb, they make pretty good moves most the time, minus lugo, the kotchman trade they just made, they get bill hall, he can play everywhere and if his bat can get anywhere near where it used to be he's gonna be a great addition, i believe the M's picked up the rest of his contact as well, Marco is decent, maybe not worth the money he got, but again, 6.5 million in the MLB nowadays really is not much at all, and for 2 years instead of 10 a year over 4 for lugo, i believe is worth it
Jughead
January 08, 2010 at 11:01PM View BBCode
Mauer is from Minnesota. He will give a hometown discount.
tworoosters
Actually Milwaukee pays the bulk of Hall's salary, $7.15 of $8.4 million per year.
I mean how badly do they want you out of town when the Brewers will take on $7 million to see you play somewhere else.
[Edited on 1-9-2010 by tworoosters]
January 08, 2010 at 11:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by bpearly69
the kotchman trade they just made, they get bill hall, he can play everywhere and if his bat can get anywhere near where it used to be he's gonna be a great addition, i believe the M's picked up the rest of his contact as well
Actually Milwaukee pays the bulk of Hall's salary, $7.15 of $8.4 million per year.
I mean how badly do they want you out of town when the Brewers will take on $7 million to see you play somewhere else.
[Edited on 1-9-2010 by tworoosters]
tworoosters
Corrected
January 08, 2010 at 11:34PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Jughead
Mauer is from Minnesota. He will give ahometownManhattan discount.
Corrected
cubfan531
It really doesn't matter how much they pay him, Mauer's worth it. He's a god in Minneapolis. And besides, if he stays, it renews my faith in baseball's better nature. If he signs with any team that doesn't play in Minnesota, I have lost all faith in humankind's better nature.
January 08, 2010 at 11:47PM View BBCode
Let's not forget that now that they're moving into Target Field (where they don't have to pay rent), the Twins are expected to add about $20 million in payroll. Besides, Mauer's got his dream job, he will give a huge hometown discount to play for Minnesota. I'm thinking they'll do something ridiculous like 7 years, 89 million or so to keep him. I bring forth Evan Longoria, Ryan Braun and Prince Fielder as precedent. And, let's not forget, Mauer's agent is NOT Scott Boras (it's Ron Shapiro, for anyone who cares).It really doesn't matter how much they pay him, Mauer's worth it. He's a god in Minneapolis. And besides, if he stays, it renews my faith in baseball's better nature. If he signs with any team that doesn't play in Minnesota, I have lost all faith in humankind's better nature.