 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Montero for Pineda
Yankees102
Montero for Pineda
January 14, 2012 at 03:01AM View BBCode
Tonight, the Yankees swapped Jesus Montero (C/DH) and Hector Noesi (RHP) with Michael Pineda anda pitching prospect from the Seattle Mariners. They also signed Hiroki Kuroda, strengthening their rotation, however they are now without a DH.
tworoosters
Both the pitching prospects are interesting as well Noesi will probably make the Mariners but I got to see Campos pitch live last year and he looked great with a nice motion and apparently hits 92-94 already at age 19.
Kuroda for $10 million for one year is a classic big market signing, it's only money after all and now Nova can drop down to #4 and Burnett can rot in hell.
January 14, 2012 at 05:33PM View BBCode
I'd pretty much always strengthen my rotation at the expense of a DH, Montero doesn't look like he'll be a catcher at the major league level and Pineda, while very young, has #1 starter stuff.Both the pitching prospects are interesting as well Noesi will probably make the Mariners but I got to see Campos pitch live last year and he looked great with a nice motion and apparently hits 92-94 already at age 19.
Kuroda for $10 million for one year is a classic big market signing, it's only money after all and now Nova can drop down to #4 and Burnett can rot in hell.
tworoosters
Seriously it would be awesome to watch sabr heads try and explain how a guy with 3,000 hits, 250 HRs, 1200+ RBI, 1700+ runs and 400+ SBs doesn't belong in the HOF.
January 15, 2012 at 12:21AM View BBCode
The Yankees should resign Damon to DH, two more reasonable years and he could reach 3,000 hits and drive everyone insane with the thought that Johnny Damon might end up in the Hall of Fame.Seriously it would be awesome to watch sabr heads try and explain how a guy with 3,000 hits, 250 HRs, 1200+ RBI, 1700+ runs and 400+ SBs doesn't belong in the HOF.
barterer2002
January 15, 2012 at 12:45AM View BBCode
Johnny Damon and Todd Green were the top two players in the Texas League the year I worked there (95). It wasn't even close how much better than the rest those two were.
Yankees102
I agree. The markets for the two also differ greatly, as anyone can DH (in theory. I won't even bring up the whole Posada issue this past year) and there aren't really that many pitchers, let alone effective ones.
As much as I hate to see a guy like Montero go, I really like Pineda. I think he has great stuff, and makes a great number 2 starter for the Yankees for the next few years. As much as I hate to say it, I feel like Ivan Nova's gonna have one of those sophomore slumps, but I don't really feel that with Pineda. Plus with the addition of Kuroda, I feel so much better about the Yankees rotation.
Burnett rotting in hell might just be the best part of this deal. We should definitely trade him though, since that's the only way Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi would want him out of the rotation, instead of trying him from the bullpen. If any team in MLB loves Burnett as much as Cashman does, we could get a decent return for him.
Not to mention we have another OF in addition to Andruw Jones if we signed Damon. I did hear that the Yankees have joined the market for Carlos Pena's services as a DH. Another idea is that if the Yankees had any interest in Yoennis Cespedes, they could sign him to play RF and DH Swisher. Just a thought.
January 15, 2012 at 04:59AM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
I'd pretty much always strengthen my rotation at the expense of a DH, Montero doesn't look like he'll be a catcher at the major league level and Pineda, while very young, has #1 starter stuff.
Both the pitching prospects are interesting as well Noesi will probably make the Mariners but I got to see Campos pitch live last year and he looked great with a nice motion and apparently hits 92-94 already at age 19.
Kuroda for $10 million for one year is a classic big market signing, it's only money after all and now Nova can drop down to #4 and Burnett can rot in hell.
I agree. The markets for the two also differ greatly, as anyone can DH (in theory. I won't even bring up the whole Posada issue this past year) and there aren't really that many pitchers, let alone effective ones.
As much as I hate to see a guy like Montero go, I really like Pineda. I think he has great stuff, and makes a great number 2 starter for the Yankees for the next few years. As much as I hate to say it, I feel like Ivan Nova's gonna have one of those sophomore slumps, but I don't really feel that with Pineda. Plus with the addition of Kuroda, I feel so much better about the Yankees rotation.
Burnett rotting in hell might just be the best part of this deal. We should definitely trade him though, since that's the only way Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi would want him out of the rotation, instead of trying him from the bullpen. If any team in MLB loves Burnett as much as Cashman does, we could get a decent return for him.
Not to mention we have another OF in addition to Andruw Jones if we signed Damon. I did hear that the Yankees have joined the market for Carlos Pena's services as a DH. Another idea is that if the Yankees had any interest in Yoennis Cespedes, they could sign him to play RF and DH Swisher. Just a thought.
mukilteomike
Don't misunderstand me--I think Pineda will be very good. He's probably something like the 30th best SP, but that's about it right now. You have to consider the fact that he pitched at Safeco; his Away ERA was 4.46 and his ERA+ was just 103.
On the other hand, his K/IP and K/BB ratios were sweet, especially for a rookie. And if you're familiar with Similarity Scores, Yankee fans will love to hear the top three guys that match up with Pineda through the age of 22--Josh Beckett, Roy Halladay and Jack McDowell. That's pretty good company.
I'm in Seattle, and am hoping with all my might that Montero can make it as a catcher. Even if he doesn't, DH will be okay. Watching the M's lack of offense has been very, very painful the last couple years. (Again, it's not entirely fair because of Safeco, but their offense would have been horrible in any park.)
Overall, I think I like the deal. Both sides traded away a surplus for a need.
January 15, 2012 at 02:16PM View BBCode
Take a closer look at Pineda's season. A lot of people say he just wore down late in the year, but that isn't exactly the case. His worst month by far was July and he had only pitched 100 innings at that time. Seattle did a fantastic job of keeping the future in mind; he only pitched into the 8th inning twice all year.Don't misunderstand me--I think Pineda will be very good. He's probably something like the 30th best SP, but that's about it right now. You have to consider the fact that he pitched at Safeco; his Away ERA was 4.46 and his ERA+ was just 103.
On the other hand, his K/IP and K/BB ratios were sweet, especially for a rookie. And if you're familiar with Similarity Scores, Yankee fans will love to hear the top three guys that match up with Pineda through the age of 22--Josh Beckett, Roy Halladay and Jack McDowell. That's pretty good company.
I'm in Seattle, and am hoping with all my might that Montero can make it as a catcher. Even if he doesn't, DH will be okay. Watching the M's lack of offense has been very, very painful the last couple years. (Again, it's not entirely fair because of Safeco, but their offense would have been horrible in any park.)
Overall, I think I like the deal. Both sides traded away a surplus for a need.
thatrogue
(Okay, I can...I'm just surprised he hasn't commented yet. I agree that the Yankees did quite well considering their needs, and that the Mariners finally took a step towards building a capable offense. I'm a little surprised that the M's would deal a young pitcher that looks as good as Pineda did...this move seems kind of desperate, unless Montero is going to be much better than I think.)
[Edited on 1-18-2012 by thatrogue]
I can't evaluate this deal
January 18, 2012 at 02:29PM View BBCode
Until I hear thoughts from Tim.(Okay, I can...I'm just surprised he hasn't commented yet. I agree that the Yankees did quite well considering their needs, and that the Mariners finally took a step towards building a capable offense. I'm a little surprised that the M's would deal a young pitcher that looks as good as Pineda did...this move seems kind of desperate, unless Montero is going to be much better than I think.)
[Edited on 1-18-2012 by thatrogue]
dirtdevil
good luck with that.
January 18, 2012 at 04:13PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Yankees102
Burnett rotting in hell might just be the best part of this deal. We should definitely trade him though, since that's the only way Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi would want him out of the rotation, instead of trying him from the bullpen. If any team in MLB loves Burnett as much as Cashman does, we could get a decent return for him.
good luck with that.
tm4559
darnens, the mariners have officially become the Yankees AAAA club.
January 18, 2012 at 09:38PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
Until I hear thoughts from Tim.
(Okay, I can...I'm just surprised he hasn't commented yet. I agree that the Yankees did quite well considering their needs, and that the Mariners finally took a step towards building a capable offense. I'm a little surprised that the M's would deal a young pitcher that looks as good as Pineda did...this move seems kind of desperate, unless Montero is going to be much better than I think.)
[Edited on 1-18-2012 by thatrogue]
darnens, the mariners have officially become the Yankees AAAA club.
tm4559
January 18, 2012 at 09:41PM View BBCode
(also, the yankees have dh's in droves. i mean, that kid with the big nose can play ss or 3b. and it can hit. unlike jeter. which cannot hit anymore. what is its name? it played last year. it often sat on the bench when it should have been playing. it can really hit. is it nunez? that rings a bell. big nose. big bat. yeah. him.)
Yankees102
[Edited on 1-18-2012 by Yankees102]
January 18, 2012 at 09:43PM View BBCode
Eduardo Nunez. Great bat, good speed, incredibly crappy defense.[Edited on 1-18-2012 by Yankees102]
tm4559
January 18, 2012 at 09:44PM View BBCode
(swisher playing again this year? you know who the yankees are keeping rf warm for? nick....markakis. after turning into something of a turd in baltimore, when the finally give in and just say good bye, he gets to NY, and puts on the pinstripes, he will become a bigger god than Paul O'Neil. you heard it here first.)
tworoosters
January 18, 2012 at 10:02PM View BBCode
Are the Orioles currently the worst organization in baseball ?
Yankees102
January 18, 2012 at 10:03PM View BBCode
Organization or team? Because Astros are the worst team.
tm4559
to quote john wayne in el dorado:
"I would hate to live on the difference."
January 18, 2012 at 10:13PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
Are the Orioles currently the worst organization in baseball ?
to quote john wayne in el dorado:
"I would hate to live on the difference."
tworoosters
I've got to think right now that, not counting the Dodgers due to their lame duck status, the worst overall organizations have to be Baltimore, the White Sox and the Marlins .
January 18, 2012 at 10:20PM View BBCode
Organization, the Astros major league roster is awful but their system isn't too bad and they've turned it around pretty quickly.I've got to think right now that, not counting the Dodgers due to their lame duck status, the worst overall organizations have to be Baltimore, the White Sox and the Marlins .
tworoosters
January 18, 2012 at 10:29PM View BBCode
I hear the city of Miami is petitioning MLB to force the Marlins to change their name back to Florida, the mayor said something about "Isn't it bad enough we've got the Dolphins ?"
tm4559
January 18, 2012 at 10:36PM View BBCode
it would be a shame to take away the name Florida when it is so closely associated with the tanky juggernaut that has been the awesomes and crunchy Florida Marlins. tank..........faces.
cubfan531
February 05, 2012 at 08:08AM View formatted
You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
I saw one of the Mariners top prospects pitch in person this past year, Taijuan Walker, and was simply blown away. Three years away maximum, and top-shelf stuff. Just a matter of maturity, the power stuff is there with solid command.
mukilteomike
I hope you're right, except for the three years away max statement. Let's make it a July 2013 arrival and call it a day.
:D
February 06, 2012 at 10:34AM View BBCode
Originally posted by cubfan531
I saw one of the Mariners top prospects pitch in person this past year, Taijuan Walker, and was simply blown away. Three years away maximum, and top-shelf stuff. Just a matter of maturity, the power stuff is there with solid command.
I hope you're right, except for the three years away max statement. Let's make it a July 2013 arrival and call it a day.
:D
Jon
Neither team really won or lost this trade. The M's had a surplus of young pitching, the Yankees had a surplus of young hitting. The M's addressed a critical need in the lineup--you know, dingers. I'm not so concerned about him sticking behind the plate as much as I'm relieved that, yay, dingers.
Losing Pineda hurts, but this is a calculated loss. Pitching prospects are so volatile and prone to attrition that banking on the hitting prospect is almost always the safer bet. The M's traded away a top pitching prospect with years of team control, but also gained a top hitting prospect with years of team control. To say "LOL The M's needed a bat and overpaid" is simplistic and ignorant of the many nuances guiding baseball transactions.
February 11, 2012 at 10:14AM View BBCode
If I'm coming back to this game, I may as well be the token M's fan again.Neither team really won or lost this trade. The M's had a surplus of young pitching, the Yankees had a surplus of young hitting. The M's addressed a critical need in the lineup--you know, dingers. I'm not so concerned about him sticking behind the plate as much as I'm relieved that, yay, dingers.
Losing Pineda hurts, but this is a calculated loss. Pitching prospects are so volatile and prone to attrition that banking on the hitting prospect is almost always the safer bet. The M's traded away a top pitching prospect with years of team control, but also gained a top hitting prospect with years of team control. To say "LOL The M's needed a bat and overpaid" is simplistic and ignorant of the many nuances guiding baseball transactions.
tm4559
February 11, 2012 at 05:56PM View BBCode
its a win win. the yankees don't need montero. pineda they can send out there in the fourth spot, they score a ton of runs for it, and it looks like a bona fide star. if it stays with the mariners? it just keeps losing 2-1 or 3-1 or whatever. it might as welll go somewhere else. the yankees? why not? its no skin off seattle's nose.Pages: 1 2