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Admin

Showing numbers instead of letters

April 03, 2007 at 10:18PM View BBCode

I just updated a couple lines of code in about a dozen pages. Let me know if you get any errors.

This change will allow leagues where you can freely see the numbers instead of the letters for skill levels.

Tyson

[Edited on 4-3-2007 by Admin]
Admin

April 03, 2007 at 10:29PM View BBCode

Ok, I'm going to flip this on and give it a quick look and see if it works.

Beyond that, I'm not going to use any of our energies testing this. I'll make it available to new leagues and if there's a new league that wants to try it, they can be the guinea pigs.

Tyson
Admin

April 03, 2007 at 10:33PM View BBCode

Ok, seems to work. Turned it back off.

Just needed something to spend 10 minutes working on and this looked like a fun idea.

Tyson
tworoosters

April 04, 2007 at 05:50AM View BBCode

Can you turn it back on for a day so we can peek ?
Admin

April 04, 2007 at 01:25PM View BBCode

Yeah, I will turn it back on til tomorrow.

Tyson
ScooterPie

April 04, 2007 at 01:32PM View BBCode

Can you copy a couple of my players over to beta so I can peek at them?

scooter
barterer2002

April 04, 2007 at 02:11PM View BBCode

Wow, that is really cool, and maybe a little hypnotic. Is it possible to move this change into current leagues or would it have to be from the start.
Admin

April 04, 2007 at 02:15PM View BBCode

If you got all 16 owners to agree, we could move this to existing leagues.

Tyson
barterer2002

April 04, 2007 at 02:18PM View BBCode

Would you have to get yes votes from all 16 owners or would you just need yes votes from all voting owners?
Admin

April 04, 2007 at 02:19PM View BBCode

I think in this case, you'd need all owners. And the first league to do it would have to understand that there might be bugs or problems.

Tyson
barterer2002

April 04, 2007 at 02:30PM View BBCode

Cool, I can see the effect of playing a 97 mentor vs a 0 mentor as my LF is 4 points in the mentoring column
barterer2002

April 04, 2007 at 02:33PM View BBCode

Past skills does appear to use the actual number rather than an approximate. Is this really always the case or just for this system?
CaseyStengel

April 04, 2007 at 02:34PM View BBCode

Here are an error related to this change:

Downloading batter spreadsheet error

HTTP Status 500 -

type Exception report

message

description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.

exception

org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)


org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.handleJspException(JspServletWrapper.java:510)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:375)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
root cause

org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
Generated servlet error:
The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)


org.apache.jasper.compiler.DefaultErrorHandler.javacError(DefaultErrorHandler.java:84)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.ErrorDispatcher.javacError(ErrorDispatcher.java:328)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.JDTCompiler.generateClass(JDTCompiler.java:413)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:297)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:276)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:264)
org.apache.jasper.JspCompilationContext.compile(JspCompilationContext.java:563)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:303)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/5.5.16 logs.

Apache Tomcat/5.5.16
CaseyStengel

Another error related to this change:

April 04, 2007 at 02:35PM View BBCode

Pitcher Download spreadsheet page
    HTTP Status 500 -

    type Exception report

    message

    description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.

    exception

    org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)


    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.handleJspException(JspServletWrapper.java:510)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:375)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
    javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
    root cause

    org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)

    An error occurred at line: 9 in the jsp file: /downloadstats.jsp
    Generated servlet error:
    The method getRating2(int, boolean) in the type Ratings is not applicable for the arguments (int, String)


    org.apache.jasper.compiler.DefaultErrorHandler.javacError(DefaultErrorHandler.java:84)
    org.apache.jasper.compiler.ErrorDispatcher.javacError(ErrorDispatcher.java:328)
    org.apache.jasper.compiler.JDTCompiler.generateClass(JDTCompiler.java:413)
    org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:297)
    org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:276)
    org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:264)
    org.apache.jasper.JspCompilationContext.compile(JspCompilationContext.java:563)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:303)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
    org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
    javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
    note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/5.5.16 logs.

    Apache Tomcat/5.5.16
CaseyStengel

Error when viewing Rankings page

April 04, 2007 at 02:36PM View formatted

You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
HTTP Status 500 -

type Exception report

message

description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.

exception

org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

An error occurred at line: 68 in the jsp file: /rankings.jsp
Generated servlet error:
Type mismatch: cannot convert from String to boolean

An error occurred at line: 68 in the jsp file: /rankings.jsp
Generated servlet error:
Type mismatch: cannot convert from String to boolean


org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.handleJspException(JspServletWrapper.java:510)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:375)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
root cause

org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP

An error occurred at line: 68 in the jsp file: /rankings.jsp
Generated servlet error:
Type mismatch: cannot convert from String to boolean

An error occurred at line: 68 in the jsp file: /rankings.jsp
Generated servlet error:
Type mismatch: cannot convert from String to boolean


org.apache.jasper.compiler.DefaultErrorHandler.javacError(DefaultErrorHandler.java:84)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.ErrorDispatcher.javacError(ErrorDispatcher.java:328)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.JDTCompiler.generateClass(JDTCompiler.java:413)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:297)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:276)
org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:264)
org.apache.jasper.JspCompilationContext.compile(JspCompilationContext.java:563)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:303)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/5.5.16 logs.

Apache Tomcat/5.5.16
Admin

April 04, 2007 at 02:47PM View BBCode

Past skills does appear to use the actual number rather than an approximate. Is this really always the case or just for this system?
It is just for this system.

I fixed those 2 pages as well.

Tyson
lvnwrth

April 04, 2007 at 03:02PM View BBCode

Originally posted by barterer2002
Would you have to get yes votes from all 16 owners or would you just need yes votes from all voting owners?


I guess you're talking about MSL, Bart? If Tyson's serious about a unanimous vote, the issue is moot. I'll vote no.

I'm all for BETTER knowledge that what our "scouts" have right now, which is why I opposed "fuzzy" sorting, which is essentially misinformation. But I'm even more opposed to perfect knowledge.
sierraguy

April 04, 2007 at 03:03PM View BBCode

I must say that it is extremely interesting to be able to see the numbers.

Could you add a button that would allow an owner to switch back and forth between displays?

I would like to be able to look at the letter grades and then switch to see the numbers behind them.

Just a thought.
Sure like being able to see the numbers.
sierraguy

April 04, 2007 at 03:05PM View BBCode

OH, I see, you have color coded the numbers.
How nice.

I was initially so focused on the numbers that I did not recoginze the color code.
Admin

April 04, 2007 at 03:24PM View BBCode

sierra - I likely won't spend any more time on this unless a league uses this. The initial change was fairly straight forward so I just did it last night for fun.

Tyson
barterer2002

April 04, 2007 at 03:40PM View BBCode

lvnwrth, I wasn't talking about any particular league. I actually tend to agree that I don't like perfect knowledge. I think this would be more helpful in a league where new owners and vets play together (sometimes not so nicely)
kittens

April 04, 2007 at 09:54PM View BBCode

Howdy, yep I agree with sierraguy, I would like to toggle back and forth if I am analyizing the value of a player based upon actual numeric values. I like looking at the letters however over the numbers as an easier overall impression. Knowing the actual numbers may give newbies a better understanding of whats going on. Bryce GM Boston
lvnwrth

April 04, 2007 at 11:03PM View BBCode

Bryce,

Good to see you on the boards. Since you left TGL, DVL, I never see your posts any longer. How's life treating you?
kittens

April 05, 2007 at 05:30AM View BBCode

Howdy lvnwrth... I do miss your energy and trading with you. I have cut back to only 2 teams plus beta. After April 16th, we will be off the road for awhile and once again be at our Reno Ranch. I have high speed wifi there and lots of time to access internet again. I will be much more active soon.. Bryce
bobcat73

April 06, 2007 at 02:15AM View BBCode

I want my letters back. Also I don't like the toggle idea, takes some of the mystery out of it.

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