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tworoosters
Except, of course, [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/extramustard/images/Brett.Favre.jpg]this guy[/url].
All Gunslinger, all the time .
September 14, 2010 at 05:20PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Well to be fair, Montana went to Kansas City at age 37. There aren't many QBs that don't look pedestrian at that point.
Except, of course, [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/extramustard/images/Brett.Favre.jpg]this guy[/url].
All Gunslinger, all the time .
vurbil
September 14, 2010 at 05:24PM View BBCode
Ha, yeah it was definitely the Isotoners. Man, that gave me a flashback to my childhood. I was incredibly susceptible to advertising when I was a kid. I think I literally thought Isotoner gloves were magical or something.
barterer2002
Nice to edit out the back surgery part too there TR
September 14, 2010 at 07:41PM View BBCode
Originally posted by tworoosters
Originally posted by barterer2002
Well to be fair, Montana went to Kansas City at age 37. There aren't many QBs that don't look pedestrian at that point.
Except, of course, [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/extramustard/images/Brett.Favre.jpg]this guy[/url].
All Gunslinger, all the time .
Nice to edit out the back surgery part too there TR
tworoosters
September 14, 2010 at 08:26PM View BBCode
True, but I didn't talk about Brett's surgeries either .
dirtdevil
September 14, 2010 at 08:42PM View BBCode
to me, favre might be the most overrated qb of all-time not named terry bradshaw. in his prime he was a great player- no one wins 3 mvps by accident- but he played in a qb-centric era and offence and his negatives were also considerable. for me he's in a group of guys just outside the top 10 with jim kelly, sammy baugh (who i just don't have a good enough handle of the stats and era for to rank any higher, he may well deserve it), ya tittle, len dawson, fran tarkenton, dan fouts. stabler and the first manning maybe could be in that group too.
Hamilton2
September 14, 2010 at 08:44PM View BBCode
What about my comments regarding Favre being a "cross-era" player? Do you not agree with that?
dirtdevil
i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that pats fans would be more in favour of brady being number one than bradshaw.
September 14, 2010 at 08:45PM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Originally posted by vurbil
Not in this thread, no. But a lot of Dolphins fans do.
I would imagine if you polled 49er fans you'd hear Montana, Patriot fans would claim Bradshaw, Cowboy fans Staubach, Colt fans Unitas or Manning and so forth. If you're just talking to Dolphin fans of course you're going to find a predominant number of people advocating Marino
i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that pats fans would be more in favour of brady being number one than bradshaw.
dirtdevil
to an extent, yes. but if he that many chances with the ball bud grant or tom landry would have nailed his ass to the bench before he could blink. to be honest, if i were to pick a "cross-era" guy from qb's of recentish vintage, i'd go with jim kelly, who also called his own plays.
September 14, 2010 at 08:50PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Hamilton2
What about my comments regarding Favre being a "cross-era" player? Do you not agree with that?
to an extent, yes. but if he that many chances with the ball bud grant or tom landry would have nailed his ass to the bench before he could blink. to be honest, if i were to pick a "cross-era" guy from qb's of recentish vintage, i'd go with jim kelly, who also called his own plays.
Anointed
I've had the good fortune to watch many games and I'm old enough to have watched football before the inception of the SB.
To me the best means who are the best at winning. Who can win under pressure, who still does the job even when the rest of the team is failing.
In that repect no one is in Montana's league, he is in a league if his own.
The actual best QB when it comes to pure skill was Kenny Anderson of Cin. He was absolutely amazing. If you ever had the pleasure to see him, then you know this is so true.
The funest QB was Sonny Jergunsen with tha beer belly and short stubby legs rolling out to pass. Tarkington was the best at escaping the rush.
Staubach was one of the smartest and the toughest was Unitas!
Who is still my all time fav QB!
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by Anointed]
September 14, 2010 at 09:29PM View BBCode
Montana hands down. Someone said Rice made him, but it was the other way around. "The Best" is very subjective to most people. I do not base my opinion just on stats but base it on who could do the most when they had the team or didn't have the team to back them up.I've had the good fortune to watch many games and I'm old enough to have watched football before the inception of the SB.
To me the best means who are the best at winning. Who can win under pressure, who still does the job even when the rest of the team is failing.
In that repect no one is in Montana's league, he is in a league if his own.
The actual best QB when it comes to pure skill was Kenny Anderson of Cin. He was absolutely amazing. If you ever had the pleasure to see him, then you know this is so true.
The funest QB was Sonny Jergunsen with tha beer belly and short stubby legs rolling out to pass. Tarkington was the best at escaping the rush.
Staubach was one of the smartest and the toughest was Unitas!
Who is still my all time fav QB!
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by Anointed]
dirtdevil
the only kenny anderson i remember (or can find reference to) is the one who played in cinci. he was one of the first to benefit from bill walsh's offensive scheme. he was a good qb, but from a pure passer standpoint i'd rank him behind marino, aikman and maybe fouts. or did you mean len dawson of kc? he was also excellent.
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by dirtdevil]
September 14, 2010 at 09:43PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Anointed
The actual best QB when it comes to pure skill was Kenny Anderson of KC. He was absolutely amazing. If you ever had the pleasure to see him, then you know this is so true.
the only kenny anderson i remember (or can find reference to) is the one who played in cinci. he was one of the first to benefit from bill walsh's offensive scheme. he was a good qb, but from a pure passer standpoint i'd rank him behind marino, aikman and maybe fouts. or did you mean len dawson of kc? he was also excellent.
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by dirtdevil]
Anointed
September 14, 2010 at 09:57PM View BBCode
I caught that and changed it. Again I rate by overall skill in winning and performance in big games, in that repect Montana is first and Anderson is second. You can check out their Post season ratings but then you may not put that much value in ratings. In fact Anderson's SB completion % record was just broken by Drew last year.
tm4559
if you could start at zero-zero, pick your scheme and all that, montana was ok, i guess. but if you want somebody to go out there and catch the team up when the defense hauled off and put the game in a big hole, marino, hands down. the guy could air it out like nobody else, for reals.
September 14, 2010 at 10:02PM View BBCode
kenny anderson was a fine quaterback.if you could start at zero-zero, pick your scheme and all that, montana was ok, i guess. but if you want somebody to go out there and catch the team up when the defense hauled off and put the game in a big hole, marino, hands down. the guy could air it out like nobody else, for reals.
barterer2002
September 14, 2010 at 11:50PM View BBCode
If we're talking specific skill sets then I have to nominate Boomer Easiason s the best play fake I've ever seen. It was simply beautiful.
dirtdevil
September 15, 2010 at 12:29AM View BBCode
the best play action fake in nfl history belonged to steve deberg. true story. unfortunately, he was mostly mediocre at everything else.
dirtdevil
kenny anderson was a fine quaterback.
if you could start at zero-zero, pick your scheme and all that, montana was ok, i guess. but if you want somebody to go out there and catch the team up when the defense hauled off and put the game in a big hole, marino, hands down. the guy could air it out like nobody else, for reals. [/quote]
roger staubach. of course he had more balanced weaponry than did marino. tony dorsett was an infinitely better option than anything marino ever had..
September 15, 2010 at 12:31AM View formatted
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[quote][i]Originally posted by tm4559[/i]
kenny anderson was a fine quaterback.
if you could start at zero-zero, pick your scheme and all that, montana was ok, i guess. but if you want somebody to go out there and catch the team up when the defense hauled off and put the game in a big hole, marino, hands down. the guy could air it out like nobody else, for reals. [/quote]
roger staubach. of course he had more balanced weaponry than did marino. tony dorsett was an infinitely better option than anything marino ever had..
tworoosters
He was really, really good at cashing pay cheques though, 17 seasons worth .
September 15, 2010 at 12:32AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
the best play action fake in nfl history belonged to steve deberg. true story. unfortunately, he was mostly mediocre at everything else.
He was really, really good at cashing pay cheques though, 17 seasons worth .
dirtdevil
September 15, 2010 at 12:36AM View BBCode
indeed. i liked steve deberg. he had a solid career and he was the perfect qb for a team that featured christian okoye. he just never seemed to be quite as good as he could have been. there are worse fates, certainly.
tm4559
yeah, i already talked nice about staubach today, it is part to my therapy. the guy was awesome.
i don't want to like run down montana or anything, but, that was a total team effort, he was the QB and all. they had a great plan. all those little passes moved the chains and all, it was great. it was also pretty doggone boring.
September 15, 2010 at 01:20AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
Originally posted by tm4559
kenny anderson was a fine quaterback.
if you could start at zero-zero, pick your scheme and all that, montana was ok, i guess. but if you want somebody to go out there and catch the team up when the defense hauled off and put the game in a big hole, marino, hands down. the guy could air it out like nobody else, for reals.
roger staubach. of course he had more balanced weaponry than did marino. tony dorsett was an infinitely better option than anything marino ever had..
yeah, i already talked nice about staubach today, it is part to my therapy. the guy was awesome.
i don't want to like run down montana or anything, but, that was a total team effort, he was the QB and all. they had a great plan. all those little passes moved the chains and all, it was great. it was also pretty doggone boring.
bpearly69
2.) Tim Couch
3.)Akili Smith
4.) David Carr
5.) Joey Harrington... oh wait this isn't the all-time bust post:)
I just try and go by the guys I've seen play, which aren't a whole ton, and a mix of some guys I kinda saw.
1/2.) Manning/Brady- Manning has all the stats, although I still continue to stick to he's always had the great offense all the time, while Brady just got a great offense starting in 07, both are great qbs, Manning is probably the better stat guy and Brady is the better clutch guy.
3.)Favre- his constant ability to always play is very impressive and IMO has gotten better with age.
4.) Kurt Warner- As stated above, he's turned around franchises when given the chance.
5.) John Elway- I got to watch him toward the end of his career, I believe it was more Davis for the titles they won but he was still a very good qb.
6/7/8/9/10.) Montana, Young, Marino, Aikman, Brees- again, I'm only 20 so I never got to watch much of these guys play a ton or remember enough about them but I'm just trying to rank mostly from guys I got to see
September 15, 2010 at 01:56AM View BBCode
1.) Ryan Leaf2.) Tim Couch
3.)Akili Smith
4.) David Carr
5.) Joey Harrington... oh wait this isn't the all-time bust post:)
I just try and go by the guys I've seen play, which aren't a whole ton, and a mix of some guys I kinda saw.
1/2.) Manning/Brady- Manning has all the stats, although I still continue to stick to he's always had the great offense all the time, while Brady just got a great offense starting in 07, both are great qbs, Manning is probably the better stat guy and Brady is the better clutch guy.
3.)Favre- his constant ability to always play is very impressive and IMO has gotten better with age.
4.) Kurt Warner- As stated above, he's turned around franchises when given the chance.
5.) John Elway- I got to watch him toward the end of his career, I believe it was more Davis for the titles they won but he was still a very good qb.
6/7/8/9/10.) Montana, Young, Marino, Aikman, Brees- again, I'm only 20 so I never got to watch much of these guys play a ton or remember enough about them but I'm just trying to rank mostly from guys I got to see
tworoosters
Shuler was waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than Carr, Couch or Harrington I mean the '94 draft was bad but I think the Skins might have been a bit better off going defense and taking McGinest, Bryant Young or Sam Adams .
September 15, 2010 at 03:32AM View BBCode
As a Redskins fan I am seriously upset that Heath Shuler is not on your top 5 busts list .Shuler was waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than Carr, Couch or Harrington I mean the '94 draft was bad but I think the Skins might have been a bit better off going defense and taking McGinest, Bryant Young or Sam Adams .
jetpac
September 15, 2010 at 07:01AM View BBCode
1994? He just said he's only 20, meaning he was 4 years old when Shuler was drafted.
folifan19
If you base it on Super Bowl (NFL Championships) wins, Bradshaw, Montana, Staubach abd Brady shoul dbe at the top. Not very good on NFL history before 1968. Unitas, Star, Graham, Baugh, Tittle... should be on the list too. Right? And if we're talking titles, Bobby Layne was a decent QB for Detroit.
September 15, 2010 at 05:49PM View BBCode
Originally posted by vurbil
It's interesting how many people have the perception that Dan Marino was one of the top QBs of all time. He never won a Superbowl, so his claim to fame is supposedly statistical. Yet he had a career QB rating of 86.4.
Two guys that are generally looked at as winners rather than stats guys: Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Montana's career QB rating was 92.3; Brady's, 93.3.
Peyton Manning, another stats guy, but also did win a Superbowl, has a career QB rating of 95.2.
Marino has a career completion percentage under 60%. He also threw 252 interceptions.
He does have a lot of yards because he had a lot of attempts. For example, he had 3 seasons of over 600 attempts, something Peyton Manning has never done. The Dolphins had literally no running game.
People make the argument that Marino is the greatest QB because football is a team game, and he can't be blamed for his team's lack of success. They say you should look at individual stats. But this is based on the false premise that Marino's stats are uniquely impressive. In fact, they don't hold up when compared to the stats of other top QBs.
If you base it on Super Bowl (NFL Championships) wins, Bradshaw, Montana, Staubach abd Brady shoul dbe at the top. Not very good on NFL history before 1968. Unitas, Star, Graham, Baugh, Tittle... should be on the list too. Right? And if we're talking titles, Bobby Layne was a decent QB for Detroit.
tworoosters
Hey Leaf was taken in '98 and Couch and Smith in '99 - he should know his history a bit .
September 15, 2010 at 06:23PM View BBCode
Originally posted by jetpac
1994? He just said he's only 20, meaning he was 4 years old when Shuler was drafted.
Hey Leaf was taken in '98 and Couch and Smith in '99 - he should know his history a bit .
tm4559
yes, Joe Theisman, super bowl title. Joe Theisman, better than dan marino.
also, god is love. love is blind. stevie wonder is blind. god wrote "superstition."
September 17, 2010 at 03:10PM View BBCode
Originally posted by folifan19
If you base it on Super Bowl (NFL Championships) wins, Bradshaw, Montana, Staubach abd Brady shoul dbe at the top. Not very good on NFL history before 1968. Unitas, Star, Graham, Baugh, Tittle... should be on the list too. Right? And if we're talking titles, Bobby Layne was a decent QB for Detroit.
yes, Joe Theisman, super bowl title. Joe Theisman, better than dan marino.
also, god is love. love is blind. stevie wonder is blind. god wrote "superstition."