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Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Fire Josh McDaniels
FuriousGiorge
April 24, 2010 at 01:46PM View BBCode
Congratulations, your coach can read a depth chart.
thatrogue
April 24, 2010 at 02:55PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazimPlease tell me you see what is so incredibly wrong with that statement.
The more I think about the Tebow pick, the better I feel about it. Look atit this way:
The Broncos picked up a 4th round for moving from 11 to 13.
The Broncos picked up 2 3rd round picks for moving back to 22 from 13.
The Broncos used a 2nd, 3rd and 4th to move to the 1st round to grab Tebow. Most experts had Tebow as a second round pick, which is essentially what the Broncos used on him as the 3rd and 4th were "freebies" for them moving from 11 to 22.
I look for Brandstater, Quinn, or Orton to be traded. Maybe 2 of the three, but 1 absolutely.
dirtdevil
oh d'aren. sometimes your faith in human nature is so cute.
April 24, 2010 at 03:42PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
Please tell me you see what is so incredibly wrong with that statement.
oh d'aren. sometimes your faith in human nature is so cute.
khazim
April 25, 2010 at 04:09AM View BBCode
if you look at draft picks solely as people, then I can see how you could view it that way. Draft picks are nothing more than commodities. Commodities to be sold, traded, and used.
thatrogue
There is a trend going with McDaniels, and it seems to be that he makes a number of his decisions based on emotion. He "likes" an asset, he reaches to acquire it. He does "dislikes" an asset, and he gets rid of it. Part of "COACHING" should be to find ways to make personnel assets productive, despite personal feelings...and to use draft picks wisely, and not underutilize them.
[Edited on 4-26-2010 by thatrogue]
April 25, 2010 at 10:41AM View BBCode
Which makes your statement even worse. If they are commodities which have value, then you should not have a cavalier attitude about how they are used. They are not freebies...they were acquired at a cost and should not be given away (your comment implied that it was okay to give those assets away to acquire a "projected" lower round talent in a higher round). This is the second straight season that McDaniels has done that. As I mentioned, Alphonso Smith was acquired at the cost of what wound up being the 14th overall pick in this year's draft, which wastes a significant amount of the value received by trading away Jake Cutler (who was effectively traded for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith). Based upon the perception of Cutler as a potential franchise QB, that seems low. Granted, Ayers and Smith may develop into stud defensive players and make McDaniels look like a genius...but would you bet on that happening, at this point?There is a trend going with McDaniels, and it seems to be that he makes a number of his decisions based on emotion. He "likes" an asset, he reaches to acquire it. He does "dislikes" an asset, and he gets rid of it. Part of "COACHING" should be to find ways to make personnel assets productive, despite personal feelings...and to use draft picks wisely, and not underutilize them.
[Edited on 4-26-2010 by thatrogue]
khazim
Let me ask you this: Why do teams usually jump up to grab a pick? Because they have it on good authority that the team immediately behind the pick is going to grab the guy you've targeted.
From what the news has been saying the past couple of days, I've gotten the impression that McDaniels has had Tebow targeted since the end of his junior year. I can't say whether this is a good thing or not.
I can think of worse things to do besides packaging up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th to pick 25th. Jacksonville's 1st round pick, for example.
April 25, 2010 at 11:38AM View BBCode
1. I don't buy the "projections" by these so-called "experts", especially Mel censored Kiper Jr. Good lord, I'm sorry the guy you projected to go #7 in the draft wasn't picked until the third round but stop whining abotu it already.Let me ask you this: Why do teams usually jump up to grab a pick? Because they have it on good authority that the team immediately behind the pick is going to grab the guy you've targeted.
From what the news has been saying the past couple of days, I've gotten the impression that McDaniels has had Tebow targeted since the end of his junior year. I can't say whether this is a good thing or not.
I can think of worse things to do besides packaging up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th to pick 25th. Jacksonville's 1st round pick, for example.
FuriousGiorge
I can.
April 25, 2010 at 02:06PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
From what the news has been saying the past couple of days, I've gotten the impression that McDaniels has had Tebow targeted since the end of his junior year. I can't say whether this is a good thing or not.
I can.
barterer2002
The truth though is that you want your first round guys to develop into all-pro types, your 2nd and 3rd round guys to be starters and your 4-7 guys to be depth and anything you get past these basic expectations is gravy
April 25, 2010 at 02:17PM View BBCode
From where I sit there is a major difference between predicting who teams will take and predicting how good they'll be in the pros. Part of predicting who teams will pick is knowing how their war rooms have decided things in the past. Knowing Al Davis's reliance on speed allows one to project Heyward Bey into the Raiders pick without assuming that he'll be a better pro than Michael Westbrook or Jeremy Macklin. I can predict a pick and still think it'll be a mistake.The truth though is that you want your first round guys to develop into all-pro types, your 2nd and 3rd round guys to be starters and your 4-7 guys to be depth and anything you get past these basic expectations is gravy
shep1582
That's kind of a weird phrase to use for QB's, but whatever, I'll assume you mean, "One of the Very Best QB's in the NFL for 10 Years."
He'll never be one of those.
April 25, 2010 at 02:18PM View BBCode
Sorry to break this to you daren, but Cutler will never, ever, be a "franchise QB".That's kind of a weird phrase to use for QB's, but whatever, I'll assume you mean, "One of the Very Best QB's in the NFL for 10 Years."
He'll never be one of those.
khazim
April 25, 2010 at 02:23PM View BBCode
That's a fact. Year 4 and still not a sniff of the playoffs.
DwightKSchrute
April 25, 2010 at 03:09PM View BBCode
I just had a thought: Can you imagine if Tom Coughlin jettisoned every player he did not like? I bet they couldn't make a roster of 53 out of guys he liked.
FuriousGiorge
He should just get it over with and kill himself.
April 25, 2010 at 03:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by khazim
That's a fact. Year 4 and still not a sniff of the playoffs.
He should just get it over with and kill himself.
shep1582
April 25, 2010 at 04:07PM View BBCode
Am I far off thinking Cutler is the new Jeff George? Lots of talent, makes all the throws, but at any moment you expect his teammates to arrange a necktie party for him?
thatrogue
April 25, 2010 at 10:34PM View BBCode
Originally posted by shep1582Whether Cutler will be a franchise QB or not, the Bears traded two first round picks and a-semi-decent-if-not-actually-good NFL QB for him. Thus, in some circles, he was perceived to be a potential franchise QB.
Sorry to break this to you daren, but Cutler will never, ever, be a "franchise QB".
That's kind of a weird phrase to use for QB's, but whatever, I'll assume you mean, "One of the Very Best QB's in the NFL for 10 Years."
He'll never be one of those.
shep1582
There are so many errors in this post, maybe you should rethink it and retype it. Underutilize them? That would be UNwise.
April 25, 2010 at 10:44PM View BBCode
Originally posted by thatrogue
Which makes your statement even worse. If they are commodities which have value, then you should not have a cavalier attitude about how they are used. They are not freebies...they were acquired at a cost and should not be given away (your comment implied that it was okay to give those assets away to acquire a "projected" lower round talent in a higher round). This is the second straight season that McDaniels has done that. As I mentioned, Alphonso Smith was acquired at the cost of what wound up being the 14th overall pick in this year's draft, which wastes a significant amount of the value received by trading away Jake Cutler (who was effectively traded for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith). Based upon the perception of Cutler as a potential franchise QB, that seems low. Granted, Ayers and Smith may develop into stud defensive players and make McDaniels look like a genius...but would you bet on that happening, at this point?
There is a trend going with McDaniels, and it seems to be that he makes a number of his decisions based on emotion. He "likes" an asset, he reaches to acquire it. He does "dislikes" an asset, and he gets rid of it. Part of "COACHING" should be to find ways to make personnel assets productive, despite personal feelings...and to use draft picks wisely, and underutilize them.
[Edited on 4-25-2010 by thatrogue]
There are so many errors in this post, maybe you should rethink it and retype it. Underutilize them? That would be UNwise.
vurbil
April 25, 2010 at 11:06PM View BBCode
The Broncos will be fine. Give the guy some time to put his system in place.
thatrogue
April 26, 2010 at 08:39AM View BBCode
Originally posted by shep1582It was supposed to say "not" underutilize them.
Originally posted by thatrogue
Which makes your statement even worse. If they are commodities which have value, then you should not have a cavalier attitude about how they are used. They are not freebies...they were acquired at a cost and should not be given away (your comment implied that it was okay to give those assets away to acquire a "projected" lower round talent in a higher round). This is the second straight season that McDaniels has done that. As I mentioned, Alphonso Smith was acquired at the cost of what wound up being the 14th overall pick in this year's draft, which wastes a significant amount of the value received by trading away Jake Cutler (who was effectively traded for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith). Based upon the perception of Cutler as a potential franchise QB, that seems low. Granted, Ayers and Smith may develop into stud defensive players and make McDaniels look like a genius...but would you bet on that happening, at this point?
There is a trend going with McDaniels, and it seems to be that he makes a number of his decisions based on emotion. He "likes" an asset, he reaches to acquire it. He does "dislikes" an asset, and he gets rid of it. Part of "COACHING" should be to find ways to make personnel assets productive, despite personal feelings...and to use draft picks wisely, and underutilize them.
[Edited on 4-25-2010 by thatrogue]
There are so many errors in this post, maybe you should rethink it and retype it. Underutilize them? That would be UNwise.
shep1582
Explain that statement.
Your comments about Cutler are puzzling, too. Jay is proving McDaniels to be correct. He's not very good, and any value he got for him is better than having Cutler.
Your Broncos weren't going anywhere before Josh got there, and I'd give the guy a chance to make a real imprint on the team. Jimmy Johnson was roundly criticized following each of the 1st two seasons after replacing Tom Landry. I think the halo you and the Denver fans had around Shanahan's head may be blinding you to what McDaniels is doing right.
my .02...
April 26, 2010 at 08:40PM View BBCode
"He does "dislikes" an asset, and he gets rid of it."Explain that statement.
Your comments about Cutler are puzzling, too. Jay is proving McDaniels to be correct. He's not very good, and any value he got for him is better than having Cutler.
Your Broncos weren't going anywhere before Josh got there, and I'd give the guy a chance to make a real imprint on the team. Jimmy Johnson was roundly criticized following each of the 1st two seasons after replacing Tom Landry. I think the halo you and the Denver fans had around Shanahan's head may be blinding you to what McDaniels is doing right.
my .02...
thatrogue
It was posted at 6:41 am. I typed statements, made changes a couple of times and failed to proofread before posting.
In any event, if and when Josh wins, my mea culpa will be posted for all to read. As for now, the title of my thread stands...
(Cutler tried to do too much in Chicago and paid the price. He had an shaky O-line, inferior receivers, and a substandard ground game. If "McDaniels Year One" gets a pass, so does Cutler.)
[Edited on 4-26-2010 by thatrogue]
April 26, 2010 at 10:23PM View BBCode
The statement should have read "dislikes" as opposed to "does dislikes".It was posted at 6:41 am. I typed statements, made changes a couple of times and failed to proofread before posting.
In any event, if and when Josh wins, my mea culpa will be posted for all to read. As for now, the title of my thread stands...
(Cutler tried to do too much in Chicago and paid the price. He had an shaky O-line, inferior receivers, and a substandard ground game. If "McDaniels Year One" gets a pass, so does Cutler.)
[Edited on 4-26-2010 by thatrogue]
vurbil
April 27, 2010 at 12:06AM View BBCode
I know this is way off topic, but it just came to mind while I was thinking about the draft. Are there any Raiders fans here? I was wondering if there is any hope for Darius Heyward-Bey or if he was just terrible last year. I have never seen him play.
tworoosters
Given the number of wideouts who are 1st round busts it amazes me that they still get taken as highly as they do.
Heyward-Bey most closely resembles Troy Williamson or maybe Ted Ginn as one of those reaaaaaaaally fast guys who can't catch well .
April 27, 2010 at 12:25AM View BBCode
I guess there is hope for any 23 year old with 4.3 speed and a 40' vertical but Darrius wasn't all that great in college and 9 catches in his rookie year hasn't added much to his reputation.Given the number of wideouts who are 1st round busts it amazes me that they still get taken as highly as they do.
Heyward-Bey most closely resembles Troy Williamson or maybe Ted Ginn as one of those reaaaaaaaally fast guys who can't catch well .
albiez
April 27, 2010 at 07:43AM View BBCode
Troy Williamson and Ted Ginn are stunning success stories when compared to DHB. No, there is no hope there. Not only can he not catch, he can not run without falling down (seriously). He can not really run at all, unless it is in a straight line, he's unimpeded, and there aren't a bunch of distractions like other guys running around and people yelling at him. It is hard to adequately convey just how inept he is at playing football.