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Raymo
Papelbon to close
March 22, 2007 at 09:18PM View BBCode
Good or bad...Let's hear your thoughts.
FuriousGiorge
March 22, 2007 at 09:28PM View BBCode
I'll take, "Who really gives a shit about the Red Sox" for $200 please, Alex.
Admin
Tyson
March 22, 2007 at 10:05PM View BBCode
FG - please adhere to the rules of the board. This is exactly the kind of stuff we don't want here. Cursing and Trying to run off new users.Tyson
Mattalonsas
Not I, but his fantasy value has got to go up, and that's what truly matters.
March 22, 2007 at 10:10PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
I'll take, "Who really gives a <b>[Censored]</b> about the Red Sox" for $200 please, Alex.
Not I, but his fantasy value has got to go up, and that's what truly matters.
FuriousGiorge
March 22, 2007 at 10:14PM View BBCode
I'm sure they're having a big circle jerk on SOSH about this. And, of course, it'll be all over ESPN. But I remember the days back when whether some 2nd year pitcher was going to start or relieve was news that I wasn't expected to care about, and I miss those days.
bobcat73
March 22, 2007 at 10:55PM View BBCode
More importantly is Turnbow going to return to form in the Brewers bullpen? If he does that BP could be dynamite.
FuriousGiorge
March 22, 2007 at 11:02PM View BBCode
If "more importantly" is code for "more interesting because it has absolutely nothing to do with either the Yankees or Red Sox" then I'm right there with you.
Benne
Don't they still have Francisco Cordero?
March 23, 2007 at 12:48AM View BBCode
Originally posted by bobcat73
More importantly is Turnbow going to return to form in the Brewers bullpen? If he does that BP could be dynamite.
Don't they still have Francisco Cordero?
bobcat73
But yes FG you picked up on my secret. Any time someone begins talking about New York or Boston I change the subject to a team that sportscenter will not inform me about whenever I turn it on....which could be any team but Redsox, Yankees, Barry "Giants Head" Bonds.
March 23, 2007 at 01:26AM View BBCode
Yes they do and he was red hot finishing the year for them. So they could have two high caliber closer types if Turnbow gets it together.But yes FG you picked up on my secret. Any time someone begins talking about New York or Boston I change the subject to a team that sportscenter will not inform me about whenever I turn it on....which could be any team but Redsox, Yankees, Barry "Giants Head" Bonds.
nbn_ckh3
For the record, I find the term "circle jerk" offensive. You're going to scare people away with these images you're painting.
Now on to Papelbon. I feel sorry for him. I am sure he wanted to be a starter, and from what I've heard, he had the stuff to make it.
March 23, 2007 at 02:18AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
I'm sure they're having a big circle jerk on SOSH about this. And, of course, it'll be all over ESPN. But I remember the days back when whether some 2nd year pitcher was going to start or relieve was news that I wasn't expected to care about, and I miss those days.
For the record, I find the term "circle jerk" offensive. You're going to scare people away with these images you're painting.
Now on to Papelbon. I feel sorry for him. I am sure he wanted to be a starter, and from what I've heard, he had the stuff to make it.
FuriousGiorge
For the record, Tyson was right - it was a bit dickish of me to send the newbie screaming for the hills. I had just seen this Papelbon nonsense at a couple of other sites and my head was going to explode if I didn't take it out on someone completely undeserving. Enter Raymo. Exit Raymo, stage left. Come back Raymo, all is forgiven.
March 23, 2007 at 02:30AM View BBCode
Originally posted by nbn_ckh3
For the record, I find the term "circle jerk" offensive. You're going to scare people away with these images you're painting.
For the record, Tyson was right - it was a bit dickish of me to send the newbie screaming for the hills. I had just seen this Papelbon nonsense at a couple of other sites and my head was going to explode if I didn't take it out on someone completely undeserving. Enter Raymo. Exit Raymo, stage left. Come back Raymo, all is forgiven.
tdski19
Putting a rookie or 2nd year man in a closer role is probably not a great idea. Sure, the bosox got lucky with papelbon last year but what happens when the has a few meltdowns in a row for the first time? This could do irreparable damage to an inexperienced pitcher. And yes, papelbon is an inexperienced pitcher.
Just look at Fuastro Carmona of cleveland last year. He was thrown to wolves in boston and detroit in july right after the wickman trade last year. The guy blew 3 saves in a row. He bounced back nicely as a STARTER
March 23, 2007 at 03:01AM View BBCode
I think it is a pretty risky move putting papelbon back in the pen..... it was risky in the first place.Putting a rookie or 2nd year man in a closer role is probably not a great idea. Sure, the bosox got lucky with papelbon last year but what happens when the has a few meltdowns in a row for the first time? This could do irreparable damage to an inexperienced pitcher. And yes, papelbon is an inexperienced pitcher.
Just look at Fuastro Carmona of cleveland last year. He was thrown to wolves in boston and detroit in july right after the wickman trade last year. The guy blew 3 saves in a row. He bounced back nicely as a STARTER
bobcat73
March 23, 2007 at 03:15AM View BBCode
Turnbow with Milwaukee is a good example of the same "strain" finishing games can put on a young pitcher.
barterer2002
I don't see the comparison here. Papelbon spent an entire season being essentially unhittable for Boston. Carmona had three attempts at closing with no success. Why are they the same?
March 23, 2007 at 03:24AM View BBCode
Originally posted by tdski19
I think it is a pretty risky move putting papelbon back in the pen..... it was risky in the first place.
Putting a rookie or 2nd year man in a closer role is probably not a great idea. Sure, the bosox got lucky with papelbon last year but what happens when the has a few meltdowns in a row for the first time? This could do irreparable damage to an inexperienced pitcher. And yes, papelbon is an inexperienced pitcher.
Just look at Fuastro Carmona of cleveland last year. He was thrown to wolves in boston and detroit in july right after the wickman trade last year. The guy blew 3 saves in a row. He bounced back nicely as a STARTER
I don't see the comparison here. Papelbon spent an entire season being essentially unhittable for Boston. Carmona had three attempts at closing with no success. Why are they the same?
tdski19
what happens when papelbon blows a few this year? Sure he has experience being unhittable- but what happens when he gets blown to bits? that's when we'll know if he can handle the closer job. That's why i say let him start and see what its like to get knocked around a bit. Closing is probably not the best place to experience that for the first time
March 23, 2007 at 03:28AM View BBCode
inexperiencewhat happens when papelbon blows a few this year? Sure he has experience being unhittable- but what happens when he gets blown to bits? that's when we'll know if he can handle the closer job. That's why i say let him start and see what its like to get knocked around a bit. Closing is probably not the best place to experience that for the first time
barterer2002
A) that its easier for Papelbon to bounce back from problems as a starter than as a closer
B) that Papelbon will not continue to be basically unhittable
C) that the Red Sox have other options to close
March 23, 2007 at 03:31AM View BBCode
Why would you assumeA) that its easier for Papelbon to bounce back from problems as a starter than as a closer
B) that Papelbon will not continue to be basically unhittable
C) that the Red Sox have other options to close
tdski19
i have to admit that i am being a bit biased that cuz i cant stand the sox but i just dont like seeing young guys close
I like seeing the crafty veterens with the wicked curve or the 95 mph fastball that we've seen closing games for the past 6 or 7 years (guys like rivera)
Id personally like to see papelbon dominate as a starter. MLB is in some dire need of dominant pitching. Sure, stats as a closer dont mirror those as a starter but give the guy a chance. Outside of Santana... the pitching is just not that great. There are no more Pedros who can expect to win brilliantly every night.
March 23, 2007 at 03:36AM View BBCode
im not assuming any of these thingsi have to admit that i am being a bit biased that cuz i cant stand the sox but i just dont like seeing young guys close
I like seeing the crafty veterens with the wicked curve or the 95 mph fastball that we've seen closing games for the past 6 or 7 years (guys like rivera)
Id personally like to see papelbon dominate as a starter. MLB is in some dire need of dominant pitching. Sure, stats as a closer dont mirror those as a starter but give the guy a chance. Outside of Santana... the pitching is just not that great. There are no more Pedros who can expect to win brilliantly every night.
barterer2002
You're aware of course that Rivera became the Yankees closer in his third season.
Look I don't like the Sox either but I really think your premise is flawed.
Trevor Hoffman-became the Padres closer in his second major league season.
Lee Smith-became the Cubs closer in his third major league season
John Franco-became the Reds closer at the end of his second major league season
Mariano Rivera became the Yankees closer in his third major league season
Dennis Eckersley
Jeff Reardon became the Expos closer when he arrived from the Mets at the end of his second season
Randy Myers became the Mets closer in his second full season
Rollie Fingers became the A's closer as a rookie
John Wettleland beacame the Expos closer in his third major league season
Roberto Hernandez became the White Sox closer at the end of his rookie season
Troy Percival became the Angels closer in his second season
Billy Wagner was co-closer as a rookie and full time in his second season
Jose Mesa
Rick Aguillera
Robb Nen became the Marlins closer in his second season
Tom Henke became the Blue Jays closer in his second full season
Goose Gossage became the White Sox closer in his fourth season (age 23)
Jeff Montgomery became the Royals closer in his third season
Doug Jones became the Indians closer in his second full season
Bruce Sutter became the Cubs closer as a rookie (and won the CY Young award in his second season)
That's the 300 save club right there.
March 23, 2007 at 03:51AM View BBCode
Guys like Rivera?You're aware of course that Rivera became the Yankees closer in his third season.
Look I don't like the Sox either but I really think your premise is flawed.
Trevor Hoffman-became the Padres closer in his second major league season.
Lee Smith-became the Cubs closer in his third major league season
John Franco-became the Reds closer at the end of his second major league season
Mariano Rivera became the Yankees closer in his third major league season
Dennis Eckersley
Jeff Reardon became the Expos closer when he arrived from the Mets at the end of his second season
Randy Myers became the Mets closer in his second full season
Rollie Fingers became the A's closer as a rookie
John Wettleland beacame the Expos closer in his third major league season
Roberto Hernandez became the White Sox closer at the end of his rookie season
Troy Percival became the Angels closer in his second season
Billy Wagner was co-closer as a rookie and full time in his second season
Jose Mesa
Rick Aguillera
Robb Nen became the Marlins closer in his second season
Tom Henke became the Blue Jays closer in his second full season
Goose Gossage became the White Sox closer in his fourth season (age 23)
Jeff Montgomery became the Royals closer in his third season
Doug Jones became the Indians closer in his second full season
Bruce Sutter became the Cubs closer as a rookie (and won the CY Young award in his second season)
That's the 300 save club right there.
tdski19
March 23, 2007 at 03:56AM View BBCode
alright maybe im wrong but i just think that he needs to start
bobcat73
[Edited on 3-23-2007 by bobcat73]
March 23, 2007 at 04:11AM View BBCode
Perhaps TURNBOW is the EXAMPLE of highly effective closer then after a few blow ups he becomes highly ineffective. Also bart you list some of the best closers ever but there are hunderds more who could not deal with the pressure....Where on your list is Butch Metzger?[Edited on 3-23-2007 by bobcat73]
barterer2002
March 23, 2007 at 04:17AM View BBCode
Bobcat I think you missed the point. Either that or I'm missing your sarcasm because I'm watching my brackets explode tonight. Anyway, I'll assume no sarcasm (not a good idea I know) tdski was arguing that teams should not use first or second year men as closers. Instead they should use guys like Rivera who have done it for a while (clearly missing half the point that guys like Rivera have to start sometime as well)
bobcat73
This kid in Boston was never going to get into the starting rotation, since he was a really good closer. I am not sure why this kid is even close to a topic of discussion except amongst Boston fans.
March 23, 2007 at 04:33AM View BBCode
Yea I was reading this discussion and getting something else. I don't get the whole "set-up" before closing argument. If the set-up man was good enough to close he would be closing, has always been my thinking.This kid in Boston was never going to get into the starting rotation, since he was a really good closer. I am not sure why this kid is even close to a topic of discussion except amongst Boston fans.
Benne
Couldn't disagree more. Last year we saw one of the best crop of young pitchers, the "new wave" of pitching, if you will. Besides Papelbon, there was Justin Verlander, Francisco Liriano (before his surgery), Ervin Santana, Jered Weaver, the Marlins rookies (Josh Johnson, Annibal Sanchez, Scot Olsen), Erik Bedard, Felix Hernandez...the list goes on, and I'm sure I forgot some.
March 23, 2007 at 09:11AM View BBCode
MLB is in some dire need of dominant pitching. Outside of Santana... the pitching is just not that great. There are no more Pedros who can expect to win brilliantly every night.
Couldn't disagree more. Last year we saw one of the best crop of young pitchers, the "new wave" of pitching, if you will. Besides Papelbon, there was Justin Verlander, Francisco Liriano (before his surgery), Ervin Santana, Jered Weaver, the Marlins rookies (Josh Johnson, Annibal Sanchez, Scot Olsen), Erik Bedard, Felix Hernandez...the list goes on, and I'm sure I forgot some.
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