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Hamilton2
Here are my top 10:
1) Brett Favre - this won't be a popular view and I won't really argue it for long, but he is the only QB in NFL history who could have played and been very good in any era. He was a top 5 QB contemporary of Manning/Brady, Aikman/Elway/Marino, and I don't think that anyone has trouble imagining him playing in a Unitas/Namath or Bradshaw/Tarkenton/Staubach league either. For his longevity, versatility and two decades of above average leadership and effective play at the position, I rate him first.
2) Peyton Manning/Johnny Unitas - Manning and Unitas are, in my opinion, similar QB's from different time periods. They both completely dominated their peers and were unquestionably the best QB's during their respective careers. They both have SB wins and they both have a long history of regular season success. The thing about these 2 QB's that elevates them to 2nd all-time is that they were on the field coaches for their teams. Unitas revolutionized the game when he played. Manning is revolutionizing it today. Both of these QB's, like no others, had the responsibility of play-calling in addition to just playing the position.
4) Joe Montana/Tom Brady - Montana benefited from having the best WR of all-time for most of his prime (Jerry Rice), but it is hard to argue with postseason success. Whether you think that the Patriots cheated or not, it is hard to deny that Brady elevates his game during the playoffs. These two QB's demonstrate that it takes a special mindset to be a winner on the world's biggest sporting stage - the Super Bowl. I would take a great playoff QB over a great regular season QB anytime.
6) Steve Young - he was more mobile than any of the aforementioned QB's, and has a higher QB rating than any of them as well. Quite frankly, I think that Young gets underrated in these sorts of discussions, because he replaced a legend (Montana) and was overshadowed for much of his career by players like Elway, Marino, Aikman and Favre (as far as media attention is concerned).
7) Fran Tarkenton - from what I have heard, Tarkenton was a complete jerk, but as far as QBing in the NFL is concerned, he got the job done for a long time with a franchise that appeared in 4 super bowls, but never won one. Tarkenton is also a more mobile QB than the top 5 on my list and he was capable of making something happen by scrambling. He and Young represent what a true scrambling QB should do, IMO, which is to prolong the play and give their receiver's some more time to get open; not just take off running with the ball as Vince Young and Michael Vick do.
8) Kurt Warner - he is, in a way, the anti-Favre. Warner's career was short and stellar. He won Super Bowls. He took two franchises that were a mess and turned them into winners. He set single game and single season records. He has a great QB rating.
9/10) take your pick, really, I think that compelling arguments could be made for John Elway, Roger Staubach, or Dan Marino. I'm sure that I'm missing someone too. Players like Joe Namath or Terry Bradshaw, whose names are more impressive than their careers were; or modern QB's like Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers who could eventually merit consideration; or even Jim Kelly and Troy Aikman who are HOF's but I don't consider to be in this same elite class as the top 8.
Best QB of all-time
September 10, 2010 at 08:52PM View BBCode
With the NFL starting again this weekend and Tom Brady signing a 4 year, 72 Million dollar extension and Peyton Manning likely to receive a higher valued deal within the next few months, I thought it would be a good time to finally put together a ranking of top QB's, according to my warped and many times incorrect opinions.Here are my top 10:
1) Brett Favre - this won't be a popular view and I won't really argue it for long, but he is the only QB in NFL history who could have played and been very good in any era. He was a top 5 QB contemporary of Manning/Brady, Aikman/Elway/Marino, and I don't think that anyone has trouble imagining him playing in a Unitas/Namath or Bradshaw/Tarkenton/Staubach league either. For his longevity, versatility and two decades of above average leadership and effective play at the position, I rate him first.
2) Peyton Manning/Johnny Unitas - Manning and Unitas are, in my opinion, similar QB's from different time periods. They both completely dominated their peers and were unquestionably the best QB's during their respective careers. They both have SB wins and they both have a long history of regular season success. The thing about these 2 QB's that elevates them to 2nd all-time is that they were on the field coaches for their teams. Unitas revolutionized the game when he played. Manning is revolutionizing it today. Both of these QB's, like no others, had the responsibility of play-calling in addition to just playing the position.
4) Joe Montana/Tom Brady - Montana benefited from having the best WR of all-time for most of his prime (Jerry Rice), but it is hard to argue with postseason success. Whether you think that the Patriots cheated or not, it is hard to deny that Brady elevates his game during the playoffs. These two QB's demonstrate that it takes a special mindset to be a winner on the world's biggest sporting stage - the Super Bowl. I would take a great playoff QB over a great regular season QB anytime.
6) Steve Young - he was more mobile than any of the aforementioned QB's, and has a higher QB rating than any of them as well. Quite frankly, I think that Young gets underrated in these sorts of discussions, because he replaced a legend (Montana) and was overshadowed for much of his career by players like Elway, Marino, Aikman and Favre (as far as media attention is concerned).
7) Fran Tarkenton - from what I have heard, Tarkenton was a complete jerk, but as far as QBing in the NFL is concerned, he got the job done for a long time with a franchise that appeared in 4 super bowls, but never won one. Tarkenton is also a more mobile QB than the top 5 on my list and he was capable of making something happen by scrambling. He and Young represent what a true scrambling QB should do, IMO, which is to prolong the play and give their receiver's some more time to get open; not just take off running with the ball as Vince Young and Michael Vick do.
8) Kurt Warner - he is, in a way, the anti-Favre. Warner's career was short and stellar. He won Super Bowls. He took two franchises that were a mess and turned them into winners. He set single game and single season records. He has a great QB rating.
9/10) take your pick, really, I think that compelling arguments could be made for John Elway, Roger Staubach, or Dan Marino. I'm sure that I'm missing someone too. Players like Joe Namath or Terry Bradshaw, whose names are more impressive than their careers were; or modern QB's like Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers who could eventually merit consideration; or even Jim Kelly and Troy Aikman who are HOF's but I don't consider to be in this same elite class as the top 8.
bpearly69
September 12, 2010 at 05:18AM View BBCode
I pretty much agree with most of this, not much to really debate on this list IMO
vurbil
September 12, 2010 at 01:19PM View BBCode
I think at this time you would have to say it is Favre. But I think by the end of their careers people will consider Manning and/or Brady to be the best.
tworoosters
I also think Elway needs to be higher on the list, he's #3 in passing yardage, went to 5 Super Bowls and was the king of comebacks .
I wouldn't have Tarkenton on my list and probably wouldn't have Warner there either but it is really incredibly tough to go with 10 but here's my effort.
1) Johnny Unitas - The beta Manning
2) Peyton Manning - I think by the time all the dust settles he'll be #1 if he wins another title
3) Favre - the lack of multiple titles hurts his case for #1 but it's hard to ignore the numbers or the mystique
4) Montana
5) Steve Young
6) Brady - all three were great quarterbacks with great teams who won a lot, I really think Young was better than Montana but it's hard to argue with Joe
7) Graham
8) Elway
9) Staubach - really a lot better than he gets credit for
10) Marino - on style points alone, that release was a thing of beauty
There are a bunch of guys I'd like to see on this list like Bart Starr, Baugh, Aikman, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Bill Kilmer (just checking to see if anyone is reading this far) but if 10 is the number then those are my 10 .
If Favre or Manning win another title I might change them to #1 .
September 12, 2010 at 03:35PM View BBCode
I think Graham and/or Baugh have to be on the list, yes it's a different game but Graham won 7 titles in 10 years and Baugh revolutionized the position.I also think Elway needs to be higher on the list, he's #3 in passing yardage, went to 5 Super Bowls and was the king of comebacks .
I wouldn't have Tarkenton on my list and probably wouldn't have Warner there either but it is really incredibly tough to go with 10 but here's my effort.
1) Johnny Unitas - The beta Manning
2) Peyton Manning - I think by the time all the dust settles he'll be #1 if he wins another title
3) Favre - the lack of multiple titles hurts his case for #1 but it's hard to ignore the numbers or the mystique
4) Montana
5) Steve Young
6) Brady - all three were great quarterbacks with great teams who won a lot, I really think Young was better than Montana but it's hard to argue with Joe
7) Graham
8) Elway
9) Staubach - really a lot better than he gets credit for
10) Marino - on style points alone, that release was a thing of beauty
There are a bunch of guys I'd like to see on this list like Bart Starr, Baugh, Aikman, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Bill Kilmer (just checking to see if anyone is reading this far) but if 10 is the number then those are my 10 .
If Favre or Manning win another title I might change them to #1 .
dirtdevil
Montana
Unitas
Graham
Manning
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Aikman
Brady
Young
Kapp
Kubiak
September 13, 2010 at 03:26AM View BBCode
i've already done this in that other thread vurbil got closed, so i'm juswt going to cut and paste. (see if you can pick out the two fake ones)Montana
Unitas
Graham
Manning
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Aikman
Brady
Young
Kapp
Kubiak
vurbil
:yawn:
September 13, 2010 at 03:56AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
i've already done this in that other thread vurbil got closed, so i'm juswt going to cut and paste. (see if you can pick out the two fake ones)
Montana
Unitas
Graham
Manning
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Aikman
Brady
Young
Kapp
Kubiak
:yawn:
Hamilton2
September 13, 2010 at 03:45PM View BBCode
I cheated on my "10" and only really did a top 8. Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh should certainly have received a write-up from me. That was a definite oversight on my part.
tm4559
Unitas was on the Colts team that beat the Cowboys although he got injured early and Morrall brought it home, along with the defense and the field goal kicker. but he was there in a big way when they beat the Giants for the NFL title, for sure. and that was the Greatest Game in Colts' History really, and it put the NFL on the map like no other game (the way the Jets' victory over the Colts put the AFL on the map and into the NFL).
September 13, 2010 at 04:39PM View BBCode
tarkenton wasn't with the vikings for all four of those super bowls (Joe Kapp was the quarteback for the first one against KC). putting him on the list and not staubach is crazy. marino was better than either tarkenton or staubach.Unitas was on the Colts team that beat the Cowboys although he got injured early and Morrall brought it home, along with the defense and the field goal kicker. but he was there in a big way when they beat the Giants for the NFL title, for sure. and that was the Greatest Game in Colts' History really, and it put the NFL on the map like no other game (the way the Jets' victory over the Colts put the AFL on the map and into the NFL).
vurbil
Two guys that are generally looked at as winners rather than stats guys: Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Montana's career QB rating was 92.3; Brady's, 93.3.
Peyton Manning, another stats guy, but also did win a Superbowl, has a career QB rating of 95.2.
Marino has a career completion percentage under 60%. He also threw 252 interceptions.
He does have a lot of yards because he had a lot of attempts. For example, he had 3 seasons of over 600 attempts, something Peyton Manning has never done. The Dolphins had literally no running game.
People make the argument that Marino is the greatest QB because football is a team game, and he can't be blamed for his team's lack of success. They say you should look at individual stats. But this is based on the false premise that Marino's stats are uniquely impressive. In fact, they don't hold up when compared to the stats of other top QBs.
September 14, 2010 at 03:08AM View BBCode
It's interesting how many people have the perception that Dan Marino was one of the top QBs of all time. He never won a Superbowl, so his claim to fame is supposedly statistical. Yet he had a career QB rating of 86.4.Two guys that are generally looked at as winners rather than stats guys: Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Montana's career QB rating was 92.3; Brady's, 93.3.
Peyton Manning, another stats guy, but also did win a Superbowl, has a career QB rating of 95.2.
Marino has a career completion percentage under 60%. He also threw 252 interceptions.
He does have a lot of yards because he had a lot of attempts. For example, he had 3 seasons of over 600 attempts, something Peyton Manning has never done. The Dolphins had literally no running game.
People make the argument that Marino is the greatest QB because football is a team game, and he can't be blamed for his team's lack of success. They say you should look at individual stats. But this is based on the false premise that Marino's stats are uniquely impressive. In fact, they don't hold up when compared to the stats of other top QBs.
dirtdevil
September 14, 2010 at 03:21AM View BBCode
you don't think the fact that everyone knew he had to pass 600 times, given that his running game was non-existent, yet was still able to put up those numbers despite that, sort of suggests that he was fairly decent?
tm4559
peyton manning was a highly skilled, gifted athlete that played for one of the finest college programs in the country and was regarded as a can't miss pro quarterback.
unitas played for a podunk college, and came into the NFL throwing cream puff passes (his own description) and was cut by the Steelers, who he very much wanted to play for.
September 14, 2010 at 01:25PM View BBCode
and archie manning was the beta peyton manning btw.peyton manning was a highly skilled, gifted athlete that played for one of the finest college programs in the country and was regarded as a can't miss pro quarterback.
unitas played for a podunk college, and came into the NFL throwing cream puff passes (his own description) and was cut by the Steelers, who he very much wanted to play for.
vurbil
He was definitely better than decent. But I think people have an over-inflated view of him because of his counting stats. His team was pass happy in an era where offensive balance was more of a priority than it is today (in general), so he stood out.
September 14, 2010 at 02:09PM View BBCode
Originally posted by dirtdevil
you don't think the fact that everyone knew he had to pass 600 times, given that his running game was non-existent, yet was still able to put up those numbers despite that, sort of suggests that he was fairly decent?
He was definitely better than decent. But I think people have an over-inflated view of him because of his counting stats. His team was pass happy in an era where offensive balance was more of a priority than it is today (in general), so he stood out.
dirtdevil
tim point about archie manning is well taken.
September 14, 2010 at 03:02PM View BBCode
he was pass happy in part because his offence had no choice. the only way they could score enough to have any chance of winning was to throw it. don't forget that shula's super bowl winning teams in miami were very much based on a ground control running attack. it ran against his nature to pass so much. the fact that he did is a testament to two things, the calibre of his quarterback and the lack of a viable alternative. what you're doing is actually the direct opposite of what you're accusing marino's supporters of: you're penalizing him because he played on a team that had no choice but to throw, facing defenced who knew that perfectly well and were prepared for it.tim point about archie manning is well taken.
tworoosters
QB rating is a stunningly flawed measurement tool, Unitas ranks 61st, Elway is 50th and Trent Green ranks ahead of Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach. Sonny Jurgenson, Bart Starr, Len Dawson and Troy Aikman .
Not in this thread they don't . I see him ranked 7th, 10th and 10th with an asterisk .
September 14, 2010 at 03:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by vurbil
It's interesting how many people have the perception that Dan Marino was one of the top QBs of all time. He never won a Superbowl, so his claim to fame is supposedly statistical. Yet he had a career QB rating of 86.4.
QB rating is a stunningly flawed measurement tool, Unitas ranks 61st, Elway is 50th and Trent Green ranks ahead of Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach. Sonny Jurgenson, Bart Starr, Len Dawson and Troy Aikman .
Originally posted by vurbil
People make the argument that Marino is the greatest QB
Not in this thread they don't . I see him ranked 7th, 10th and 10th with an asterisk .
dirtdevil
September 14, 2010 at 04:10PM View BBCode
trent green is the bidness. washington, st louis, kc, miami and st louis should never have given up on him.
vurbil
QB rating probably is flawed. It measures what it measures, and that's as far as it goes.
It just sort of struck me when I took a close look at Marino's numbers that they really aren't that good. I grew up idolizing Marino and believing he was statistically the greatest QB of all time. I finally decided to look at his career stats so I could marvel over them, and that's when I discovered that he is pretty overrated.
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by vurbil]
September 14, 2010 at 04:26PM View BBCode
Not in this thread, no. But a lot of Dolphins fans do.QB rating probably is flawed. It measures what it measures, and that's as far as it goes.
It just sort of struck me when I took a close look at Marino's numbers that they really aren't that good. I grew up idolizing Marino and believing he was statistically the greatest QB of all time. I finally decided to look at his career stats so I could marvel over them, and that's when I discovered that he is pretty overrated.
[Edited on 9-14-2010 by vurbil]
tm4559
and all this stuff about how this and that quarterback only "won" one super bowl, or didn't "win" any is plain dumb. no player "wins" a football game, quarterback, running back, cornerback, nobody. football just don't work that way. if that (super bowl titles) is your measuring stick, then just proclaim Terry Bradshaw the Greastest of All-Time and be done with it.
there have been certain quarterbacks that just did things nobody else could do. staubach, for instance, was one of them. you can't get the feel for it from watching the films or looking at the stats. he could bring his team back and help it wins games that were just unwinnable, true story. sometimes it seemed almost inevitable.
also, the Vikings? that lost all those super bowls? some of those teams were very, very good. especially the team that lost to the Steelers.
(the Steelers were the awesome. everybody lost to them. Staubach, everybody.)
September 14, 2010 at 04:32PM View BBCode
QB rating is silly, for the simple reason they are constantly changing the rules in the NFL. anybody who plays in the time when you can't touch the receiver downfield (when unitas played, for instance, they just knocked them down at any time before the ball was in the air, no problem), or played in the time when the quarterback had to actually be a player that could be hit (when unitas and staubach, among others played, they just teed right on off, high, low, ball gone [within reason], whatever. when baugh played, they just keep on hitting the quarterback until the whistle blew, he didn't have to have the ball. even when marino played, the rules were not nearly so friendly to the offense in general and the quarterback in particular as they are now).and all this stuff about how this and that quarterback only "won" one super bowl, or didn't "win" any is plain dumb. no player "wins" a football game, quarterback, running back, cornerback, nobody. football just don't work that way. if that (super bowl titles) is your measuring stick, then just proclaim Terry Bradshaw the Greastest of All-Time and be done with it.
there have been certain quarterbacks that just did things nobody else could do. staubach, for instance, was one of them. you can't get the feel for it from watching the films or looking at the stats. he could bring his team back and help it wins games that were just unwinnable, true story. sometimes it seemed almost inevitable.
also, the Vikings? that lost all those super bowls? some of those teams were very, very good. especially the team that lost to the Steelers.
(the Steelers were the awesome. everybody lost to them. Staubach, everybody.)
tm4559
September 14, 2010 at 04:45PM View BBCode
oh, sorry, i didn't finish my thought. when marino played, everybody that played with him and against him, and everybody that watched the games, knew he was the plain awesome. because he was.
barterer2002
I would imagine if you polled 49er fans you'd hear Montana, Patriot fans would claim Bradshaw, Cowboy fans Staubach, Colt fans Unitas or Manning and so forth. If you're just talking to Dolphin fans of course you're going to find a predominant number of people advocating Marino
September 14, 2010 at 04:53PM View BBCode
Originally posted by vurbil
Not in this thread, no. But a lot of Dolphins fans do.
I would imagine if you polled 49er fans you'd hear Montana, Patriot fans would claim Bradshaw, Cowboy fans Staubach, Colt fans Unitas or Manning and so forth. If you're just talking to Dolphin fans of course you're going to find a predominant number of people advocating Marino
Admin
Montana looked pretty pedestrian once he left SF. And Bill Walsh was a smart dude. He could have turned a lot of QBs into All-Pros.
Tyson
September 14, 2010 at 04:59PM View BBCode
Two of my best friends growing up were fans of the 49ers and Dolphins, so the Montana vs Marino argument was a popular topic. Marino didn't have a running a game. Looking back, I'm not sure Duper and Clayton were anything special either. Clayton was surely a good receive, but I think Marino had a lot to do with that. They did have a pretty good O-Line, I think it was because of those Isotoner gloves.Montana looked pretty pedestrian once he left SF. And Bill Walsh was a smart dude. He could have turned a lot of QBs into All-Pros.
Tyson
barterer2002
September 14, 2010 at 05:03PM View BBCode
Well to be fair, Montana had had a couple of back surgeries and went to Kansas City at age 37. There aren't many QBs that don't look pedestrian at that point.