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FuriousGiorge
Gold gloves
November 02, 2005 at 05:08AM View BBCode
Guess who won the AL one for shortstops. No, just guess. You'll come up with it.
FuriousGiorge
November 02, 2005 at 05:11AM View formatted
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Might as well have been Clive Owen.
kujayhawks15
[Edited on 11-2-2005 by kujayhawks15]
November 02, 2005 at 06:08AM View BBCode
Nomar? A-Rod? Oh I got it...Mike Morse?[Edited on 11-2-2005 by kujayhawks15]
barterer2002
November 04, 2005 at 09:30PM View BBCode
Hey, lets face it, he's not the worst Gold Glove award given out this season. That third outfielder in the NL is just a joke defensively.
folifan19
November 04, 2005 at 09:34PM View BBCode
Jack Wilson got hosed. Omar won because he has the most GGs. Still a decent defensive player, but the best SS in the NL/ No way.
Benne
November 04, 2005 at 10:03PM View BBCode
He hit those 20-odd homers at the All-Star game, hasn't done jackshit since...
barterer2002
November 04, 2005 at 10:04PM View BBCode
Do you mean other than the fact that he loafs out there, doesn't get to balls and could be considered an average fielder at best? Let me put it to you this way. Bobby had a 1.73 range factor in 2005, the league average for right fielders was 1.75. I'd say that's pretty average. Fielding percentage was .986 vs a league average of .981-again pretty average. 7 assists show that he didn't throw out a ton of baserunners. Eleven NL outfielders had more assists including teammates Pat Burrell and Jason Michaels, neither of whom lights it up out there. Bobby is an average at best defensive player certainly not a Gold Glovers.
yankeekid
November 04, 2005 at 10:55PM View BBCode
I didn't even know Jeter got it so shut up with the man crush, he's a good player like it or not.
Isaiah4110
November 06, 2005 at 05:35AM View BBCode
Saying someone is overrated is not the same as saying they aren't any good YK. it's often the good players who are overrated. Saying someone is overrated only means that people think he is better than he actually is or that he gets more credit than he deserves.
ME
November 06, 2005 at 06:30AM View BBCode
Jeter is somewhere between horrible and slightly below average defensively, though he's shown some improvement the past 2 years over previous years.
Duff77
And if you're going to have a Jeter avatar, you better get used to people giving you crap about it. My advice is to give it back as good as you get it. Whining about the abuse will only make it worse. You might have noticed that.
November 06, 2005 at 07:12AM View BBCode
Jeter is a good player. He just isn't the second coming of Honus Wagner, and people who know the game (and who aren't Yankees fans, anyway) are sick and tired of seeing the media padare Jeter around like he's the best player in history. It's irritating, as well as disrespectful to players who are clearly better than him.And if you're going to have a Jeter avatar, you better get used to people giving you crap about it. My advice is to give it back as good as you get it. Whining about the abuse will only make it worse. You might have noticed that.
Duff77
November 06, 2005 at 07:18AM View BBCode
Okay, I'm losing my mind. I just made the same point about Jeter in two different forums, like two hours apart. Time for one of you kind folks to commit me.
whiskybear
Not that I care about Abreu's defensive ability either way, but outfield assists are sometimes a reflection of an opponent's tendency to run on a certain outfielder. Burrell and Michaels could conceivably be worse defensively.
November 06, 2005 at 07:58AM View BBCode
Originally posted by barterer2002
Do you mean other than the fact that he loafs out there, doesn't get to balls and could be considered an average fielder at best? Let me put it to you this way. Bobby had a 1.73 range factor in 2005, the league average for right fielders was 1.75. I'd say that's pretty average. Fielding percentage was .986 vs a league average of .981-again pretty average. 7 assists show that he didn't throw out a ton of baserunners. Eleven NL outfielders had more assists including teammates Pat Burrell and Jason Michaels, neither of whom lights it up out there. Bobby is an average at best defensive player certainly not a Gold Glovers.
Not that I care about Abreu's defensive ability either way, but outfield assists are sometimes a reflection of an opponent's tendency to run on a certain outfielder. Burrell and Michaels could conceivably be worse defensively.
ABDREW
This is a very good point. All you need to know to back this up is that Manny Ramirez led MLB outfielders with 17 assists. Most of the time people ran on him assuming he was half asleep out there. 99% of the time they were right but look out those other 17 times.
November 06, 2005 at 09:09AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
Not that I care about Abreu's defensive ability either way, but outfield assists are sometimes a reflection of an opponent's tendency to run on a certain outfielder. Burrell and Michaels could conceivably be worse defensively.
This is a very good point. All you need to know to back this up is that Manny Ramirez led MLB outfielders with 17 assists. Most of the time people ran on him assuming he was half asleep out there. 99% of the time they were right but look out those other 17 times.
ABDREW
This is a very good point. All you need to know to back this up is that Manny Ramirez led MLB outfielders with 17 assists. Most of the time people ran on him assuming he was half asleep out there. 99% of the time they were right but look out those other 17 times.
November 06, 2005 at 09:11AM View BBCode
Originally posted by whiskybear
Not that I care about Abreu's defensive ability either way, but outfield assists are sometimes a reflection of an opponent's tendency to run on a certain outfielder. Burrell and Michaels could conceivably be worse defensively.
This is a very good point. All you need to know to back this up is that Manny Ramirez led MLB outfielders with 17 assists. Most of the time people ran on him assuming he was half asleep out there. 99% of the time they were right but look out those other 17 times.
barterer2002
November 06, 2005 at 01:19PM View BBCode
I'll concede your point Whisk, and obviously its true. As everyone realizes strong arms in the outfield will gain a rep and not be run on. Examples would be Vlad Guerrero, Jose Guillen etc. The point there was that Bobby has nothing that warrents being a Gold Glove outfielder. The point is that Bobby has nothing in his favor that would warrent being a Gold Glove fielder. He's a tremendous hitter but an average at best fielder.
skierdude44
For the sake of comparison I took a look at the other AL shortstops. Again the league range factor = 4.17 and league fielding % = .972
Orlando Cabrera - 4.09 rf .988 f%
Miguel Tejada - 4.56 rf .971 f%
Edgar Renteria - 4.08 rf .954 f%
Juan Uribe - 4.60 rf .977 f%
Jhonny Peralta - 4.39 rf .970 f%
Carlos Guillen - 4.16 rf .978 f%
Juan Castro (MIN) - 4.49 rf .985 f%
Bobby Crosby - 4.37 rf .981 f%
Michael Young - 4.30 rf .974 f%
Russ Adams - 3.93 rf .952 f%
Julio Lugo - 4.71 rf .968 f%
Angel Berroa - 4.37 rf .965 f%
So looking at this list, Jeter is one of the better defensive shortstops in the league. Only Lugo and Uribe edge him in range factor but his fielding percentage is better than both of them. Jeter's range factor and fielding percentage are significantly above the league average as well. You guys might just have to come to grips with the fact that maybe, just maybe, he deserved it this year (gasp!).
November 06, 2005 at 02:39PM View BBCode
Back to the original point.... Jeter actually had a pretty good season with the glove. His range factor was 4.56 last year, the league average was just 4.17. His fielding percentage was .979. League average was .972.For the sake of comparison I took a look at the other AL shortstops. Again the league range factor = 4.17 and league fielding % = .972
Orlando Cabrera - 4.09 rf .988 f%
Miguel Tejada - 4.56 rf .971 f%
Edgar Renteria - 4.08 rf .954 f%
Juan Uribe - 4.60 rf .977 f%
Jhonny Peralta - 4.39 rf .970 f%
Carlos Guillen - 4.16 rf .978 f%
Juan Castro (MIN) - 4.49 rf .985 f%
Bobby Crosby - 4.37 rf .981 f%
Michael Young - 4.30 rf .974 f%
Russ Adams - 3.93 rf .952 f%
Julio Lugo - 4.71 rf .968 f%
Angel Berroa - 4.37 rf .965 f%
So looking at this list, Jeter is one of the better defensive shortstops in the league. Only Lugo and Uribe edge him in range factor but his fielding percentage is better than both of them. Jeter's range factor and fielding percentage are significantly above the league average as well. You guys might just have to come to grips with the fact that maybe, just maybe, he deserved it this year (gasp!).
ABDREW
November 06, 2005 at 05:43PM View BBCode
Can someone explain to me how in the hell Renteria got 2 gold gloves in the N.L. After watching this guy all year I have come to realize that he has limited range and a soft throwing arm. So far he looks like a total waste of 40 millionPages: 1 2