 |
View Old Forum Thread
Old Forum Index » Other Stuff » Sports Talk » Greatest Ever
| Poll: Greatest Ever | |
|---|---|
| Babe Ruth | 9 |
| Hank Aaron | 0 |
| Honus Wagner | 1 |
| Barry Bonds | 2 |
| Willie Mays | 8 |
Moobelly
Greatest Ever
November 23, 2005 at 12:35AM View BBCode
Who do you think is the greatest all around all-time player ever?
drunkengoat
Bonds doesn't deserve to be on that list.
Ruth has a case because he could pitch... Wagner has a case because he was a shortstop.. a DAMN good shortstop... Aaron, well... is Aaron.
Bonds... has steroid scandals.
November 23, 2005 at 12:37AM View BBCode
Out of that list, I have to go with Mays.Bonds doesn't deserve to be on that list.
Ruth has a case because he could pitch... Wagner has a case because he was a shortstop.. a DAMN good shortstop... Aaron, well... is Aaron.
Bonds... has steroid scandals.
drunkengoat
I'm guessing you avoided Ted Williams because of his lack of defensive brilliance, but oh well. The players I named above had something to say defensively as well as with their bats and even on the basepaths, especially Cobb. Be sure to be a little more exhaustive in your list next time around.
November 23, 2005 at 12:41AM View BBCode
How you could forget names like Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Roberto Clemente, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, and Joe Jackson off that list, though, is beyond me.I'm guessing you avoided Ted Williams because of his lack of defensive brilliance, but oh well. The players I named above had something to say defensively as well as with their bats and even on the basepaths, especially Cobb. Be sure to be a little more exhaustive in your list next time around.
Cubsfan13
November 23, 2005 at 12:46AM View BBCode
I said Mays a couple of years ago. I was wrong. It is Ruth.
kujayhawks15
I would have voted for all of the players DG mentioned over Bonds, but I would have voted Cobb best ever. I know that Ruth was supposedley better, but I have always thought that Cobb was the best baseball player of all time.
November 23, 2005 at 01:59AM View BBCode
Originally posted by drunkengoat
How you could forget names like Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Roberto Clemente, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, and Joe Jackson off that list, though, is beyond me.
I'm guessing you avoided Ted Williams because of his lack of defensive brilliance, but oh well. The players I named above had something to say defensively as well as with their bats and even on the basepaths, especially Cobb. Be sure to be a little more exhaustive in your list next time around.
I would have voted for all of the players DG mentioned over Bonds, but I would have voted Cobb best ever. I know that Ruth was supposedley better, but I have always thought that Cobb was the best baseball player of all time.
DerekJeter
I talked with Felix Rodriguez last season about Bonds and we pretty much agree that he's the best either of us has ever seen and I've played with a lot of terrific players. They're all really good to have as teammates.
November 23, 2005 at 03:33AM View BBCode
I'm met Barry at several all-star games and he's really a funny terrific guy, he gets a bad rap in the media.I talked with Felix Rodriguez last season about Bonds and we pretty much agree that he's the best either of us has ever seen and I've played with a lot of terrific players. They're all really good to have as teammates.
JLlamas
November 23, 2005 at 04:03AM View BBCode
I voted Willie Mays, but really Cobb, Jackson, Ruth, Mantle, Musial, and Williams were all terrific players. Although when I think of the greatest man to ever play Roberto Clemente and Jackie Robinson come to mind. That is a different subject though...
whiskybear
Sal Bando is the greatest ever.
November 23, 2005 at 04:54AM View BBCode
No...Ty Cobb just makes Babe Ruth look like Rey Ordonez.Sal Bando is the greatest ever.
youngallstar
I figured whisky would beat me to the punch on this one. But it was you.
I will see you sir, at the flagpole, 3:30.
November 23, 2005 at 04:58AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Benne
Rey Ordonez is the greatest ever.
I figured whisky would beat me to the punch on this one. But it was you.
I will see you sir, at the flagpole, 3:30.
folifan19
November 23, 2005 at 01:14PM View BBCode
I voted for Mays. Would have been just as happy to vote for Clemente.
barterer2002
I vote for Ruth. He was ahead of the curve. He had more homers than the rest of the teams in the AL in 1920. He led the way into a new era of baseball. Cobb on the other hand, although a great players, played the game the same way as his contemporaries. Aaron and Mays, played the same way as their contemporaries. Wagner played it like his contemporaries. Only Ruth of those mentioned, changed the way the game was played. Yes there were other factors involved and yes, Hornsby soon followed in Ruth's footsteps by reshaping the NL as well. The other deciding factor, as if this wasn't enough, was that Ruth was on his way to a Hall of Fame pitching career before moving to first base (and later to the outfield)
November 23, 2005 at 04:08PM View BBCode
Using the standard disclaimers that its tough to compare between eras and that the modern players train so much better that mediocre players today could have been all-stars in the early days of baseball, and working on the assumption that we're comparing players to their contemporaries.I vote for Ruth. He was ahead of the curve. He had more homers than the rest of the teams in the AL in 1920. He led the way into a new era of baseball. Cobb on the other hand, although a great players, played the game the same way as his contemporaries. Aaron and Mays, played the same way as their contemporaries. Wagner played it like his contemporaries. Only Ruth of those mentioned, changed the way the game was played. Yes there were other factors involved and yes, Hornsby soon followed in Ruth's footsteps by reshaping the NL as well. The other deciding factor, as if this wasn't enough, was that Ruth was on his way to a Hall of Fame pitching career before moving to first base (and later to the outfield)
jetpac
November 23, 2005 at 05:51PM View formatted
You are viewing the raw post code; this allows you to copy a message with BBCode formatting intact.
Ruth
Vendrell
November 23, 2005 at 10:58PM View BBCode
um? ruth?....those guys owned but, babe ruth is the first player id take if i was making an all time team. barry bonds only has had 1300 opses because of steroids/being pitched around, hence 200 walks. Ruth just flat out raped his era of play. Think of ruth with a diet and fitness, as well as muscle buidling plan. I bet if ruth had steroids he'd have hit over 100 HRs in a season.
DougB
November 23, 2005 at 11:14PM View BBCode
well the "all-around" part throws a monkey wrench in the mix. Most "who was the greatest ever" polls don't ask who was greatest all-around. Ted Williams did one thing... hit. And he did that better than anyone... or at least all but 1 or 2 players in history. But an average major leaguer probably played better defense, ran bases better, and was nicer to your grandma. I'd take the hitter.
ME
Agreed. Baseball is about doing two things, scoring runs and keeping runs off the board. Keeping runs off the board is mostly the job of pitchers. It's not a decathalon where you want to do everything well. You want to do what scores the most runs and allows the least. Hitting is by far the most important thing a position player does. Defense, basestealing, etc. matter, but hitting is king. That's why Ted Williams was great.
I don't see how 7 people voted for Willie Mays. He was great, but not the best ever. His career OBP is only .384, though he played part of his career in a strong pitching era.
I believe Ruth is the greatest ever, but I must admit even he is overrated at times. He happened to start hitting full-time in 1919 (he hit 29 HR) - and in 1920 the rules were changed so pitchers couldn't alter pitches, giving hitters a big advantage, making his improvements look better than they were.
November 24, 2005 at 02:29AM View BBCode
Originally posted by DougB
well the "all-around" part throws a monkey wrench in the mix. Most "who was the greatest ever" polls don't ask who was greatest all-around. Ted Williams did one thing... hit. And he did that better than anyone... or at least all but 1 or 2 players in history. But an average major leaguer probably played better defense, ran bases better, and was nicer to your grandma. I'd take the hitter.
Agreed. Baseball is about doing two things, scoring runs and keeping runs off the board. Keeping runs off the board is mostly the job of pitchers. It's not a decathalon where you want to do everything well. You want to do what scores the most runs and allows the least. Hitting is by far the most important thing a position player does. Defense, basestealing, etc. matter, but hitting is king. That's why Ted Williams was great.
I don't see how 7 people voted for Willie Mays. He was great, but not the best ever. His career OBP is only .384, though he played part of his career in a strong pitching era.
I believe Ruth is the greatest ever, but I must admit even he is overrated at times. He happened to start hitting full-time in 1919 (he hit 29 HR) - and in 1920 the rules were changed so pitchers couldn't alter pitches, giving hitters a big advantage, making his improvements look better than they were.
barterer2002
Well, Mays had a .384 OBP at a time when the league OBP was .329. That means that he was 16.7% above the league average. Is that the best of all time. No. Is Willie Mays considered an all time great because he knew how to draw a walk. No. Willie Mays is considered an all time great because he did everything at a high level. You may find some who could do certain things better but it is doubtful that you can find anyone with as few holes in his game as Mays.
Defensively, he was without peer in the outfield. His 16 Gold Gloves are evidence of that.
On the bases he was a good basestealer. He led the league in steals four times in a row from 1956-1959.
Hitting for power. He hit 660 career home runs. He led the league in homers four times. He led the league in slugging five times and in OPS five times. He posted a career .557 slugging percentage at a time when the league average was .400-39% above his peers in slugging. His career OPS was .941 in an era whan the league average was .729-29% better than his peers. He could also hit for average. His .302 career mark may not glitter like Teddy Ballgame or The Great Bambino but he did win a batting title (and finished second three other times) and he played in an era where the league average was .263-again 15% above his peers. He has an isolated slugging mark of .255, again, in the top twenty of all time and much better than his peers.
I didn't vote for Willie but CLEARLY he belongs in the discussion and I won't begrudge those who did so.
November 24, 2005 at 02:58AM View BBCode
Originally posted by ME
I don't see how 7 people voted for Willie Mays. He was great, but not the best ever. His career OBP is only .384, though he played part of his career in a strong pitching era.
Well, Mays had a .384 OBP at a time when the league OBP was .329. That means that he was 16.7% above the league average. Is that the best of all time. No. Is Willie Mays considered an all time great because he knew how to draw a walk. No. Willie Mays is considered an all time great because he did everything at a high level. You may find some who could do certain things better but it is doubtful that you can find anyone with as few holes in his game as Mays.
Defensively, he was without peer in the outfield. His 16 Gold Gloves are evidence of that.
On the bases he was a good basestealer. He led the league in steals four times in a row from 1956-1959.
Hitting for power. He hit 660 career home runs. He led the league in homers four times. He led the league in slugging five times and in OPS five times. He posted a career .557 slugging percentage at a time when the league average was .400-39% above his peers in slugging. His career OPS was .941 in an era whan the league average was .729-29% better than his peers. He could also hit for average. His .302 career mark may not glitter like Teddy Ballgame or The Great Bambino but he did win a batting title (and finished second three other times) and he played in an era where the league average was .263-again 15% above his peers. He has an isolated slugging mark of .255, again, in the top twenty of all time and much better than his peers.
I didn't vote for Willie but CLEARLY he belongs in the discussion and I won't begrudge those who did so.
Dogbelly
I voted for Mays.
November 24, 2005 at 02:51PM View BBCode
I find it odd Aaron hasn't got a single vote.I voted for Mays.
barterer2002
Aaron is a terrific player but often comes up on the short end of comparisons with Mays, and also with Mantle, who were in large part his contemporaries. Aaron had a terrific career and could do a lot of things. He was a terrific power hitter but his prime years weren't as impressive as either Mantle or Mays and his home run record, while impressive, is often perceived as being a function of longevity and sustained excellance rather than sustained brillance. He could run but not as well as Mays or even Mantle before his knee problems. He could play defense probably better than the Mick but not even close to Mays. He's a great player but its no shame being one of the top ten of all time rather than the top.
November 24, 2005 at 02:59PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Dogbelly
I find it odd Aaron hasn't got a single vote.
I voted for Mays.
Aaron is a terrific player but often comes up on the short end of comparisons with Mays, and also with Mantle, who were in large part his contemporaries. Aaron had a terrific career and could do a lot of things. He was a terrific power hitter but his prime years weren't as impressive as either Mantle or Mays and his home run record, while impressive, is often perceived as being a function of longevity and sustained excellance rather than sustained brillance. He could run but not as well as Mays or even Mantle before his knee problems. He could play defense probably better than the Mick but not even close to Mays. He's a great player but its no shame being one of the top ten of all time rather than the top.
kujayhawks15
Thanks, I was wondering if anyone on these boards had heard of them.
It is a great CD.
November 24, 2005 at 06:34PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Isaiah4110
*random* Nice avatar kujay. That's a good CD.
Thanks, I was wondering if anyone on these boards had heard of them.
It is a great CD.
whiskybear
November 24, 2005 at 11:49PM View BBCode
Jim Brown, and don't come around here with that Emmitt Smith shit. Brown would eat your liver with fava beans and a nice chianti and still have room to drop hand grenades down the hatch of a Panzer for dessert.Pages: 1 2